Comments ~ 2008: October (Part 2 - 18th October onwards)

First reactions from Pontins, more from the Nationals, BBC, reports of Resurgam like revivals and much more in a bumper postbag...

First Section concert?

In answer to the question of post contest concert standards, we all surely realise that when rehearsing for a major contest the concert work will take the back burner.

At the Nationals for example, why not invite the National 1st Section winners to give the concert?

It would be seen as an extra prize and a chance for the maybe lesser known bands to feature on a big stage, and you'd be sure to get a programme that's been thoroughly worked over to impress on the day. 

Garry Hallas
Emley Brass Band 

Walters Wizard 

I have followed Grimethorpe Colliery Band for many years and always marvelled at the feats of wizardy from Mark Walters on the flugel horn.

I have not heard mention of him for a long time so when I saw he was playing with the Diggle Band, at Uppermill, I decided I would go along to listen.

Leslie Howie played on the same concert, and although she played really well it was Mark’s performance that stole the show.

His playing was just complete quality from beginning to end, it is a travesty that such a talented player no longer plays in top class bands.

I look forward to the next time someone entices him out of retirement.

John Davies
Holmfirth 

Times and dates 

Having read a number of comments about the attendance at the National Finals I must agree that it was a shame to see so many empty seats throughout the day.

I just have to wonder though why on the weekend of the National Finals did the North West Counties decide to hold their Fleetwood contest? How many people had to make a decision about which contest to attend?

I know people who wanted to go to London but as loyal bandsman were resigned to missing the finals in order to play at Fleetwood contest. I personally had to say no to helping a band out at Fleetwood as I had already booked tickets to the finals.

Surely as numbers of people attending contests is decreasing there is no sense in holding a local contest on the same weekend as the National, making people choose between the two.

The same situation will happen again next month when the Wilkinson contest clashes with Brass in Concert! 

Surely a bit of foresight over contest dates and checking to ensure these sorts of clashes don't occur would be in the best interest of the movement as a whole and a least give people the option to attend both events.

Martin Bridges

National Statistics 

Some interesting stats about the Nationals;

10 out of the last 12 finals have either Allan Withington (6) or Nick Childs (4) as the winning conductor

Allan Withington has won 3 'pairs' of finals in that time with 3 different bands (Brighouse, Fairey and Grimethorpe). After each pair of Allan's wins Nick Childs was the winning conductor.

Then following Nick's wins there was a 'random' winner - Bob Childs (Cory) then Russell Gray (Leyland).

If this trend continues it should be another 'random' winner in 2009.

Sorry  - got nothing better to do....................

Chris Freaney
Texas, USA. 

Use your vote if you want change 

Re. Mike Hughes comment...” Comment regarding who can play, when and how should be left to a National Brass Band referendum, let the bands vote on rules about deadlines before contests and other contentious issues”

The British Federation (BFBB) did have a national referendum / survey not that long ago. All bands were sent the survey asking questions about items such as the registration, rules etc. I understand that bands (or those that bothered to reply) voted for no change to the current systems.

I am sure that should anyone wish, then the results of that survey would be available from Carol Tattersfield or Philip Watson at the BFBB offices – http://www.bfbb.co.uk/support.htm

Bands DO have a say in contentious issues. The BFBB is there to represent bands. Any band who is a paying member of BFBB can attend the AGM and put forward a representative to sit on the BFBB board and help make those decisions.

I assume that the reason for separate registration bodies is that Scotland and Wales are seen as separate entities within EBBA (sending their representatives to the European Championships)

Gary Jones

Terrible practice

Please enlighten me and let me know who started the terrible practice of allowing adjudicators out of their box and into some concealed from view room to deliberate their results for around 30 minutes after the last band has played? 

Having seen some fairly dodgy results at contests this year, it seems to me only to add an air of doubt on who is having the final say, and under what input. 

What is wrong with adjudicators staying in their box to work out the winners and placings, blow their whistle, and out they come straight onto the stage, hand the remarks and results over and the winners announced. 

I do not see any benefit whatsoever from the current practice of taking the adjudicators backstage, particularly when decisions do not go as expected. 

On a separate note, why, when there are two adjudicators, can they not sit in separate boxes and take an average of their scoring to determine the winner.

At Pontins this year, we had two totally separate and contradictory sets of remarks from Malcolm Brownbill and Colin Hardy, and it would have been interesting to see what the separate placings were.

Martin Gernon 

Major admiration

I sense the admiration of Phil Green in each of his words about the Major's dedication with Sovereign Brass at Pontins.

May I just confirm how much I agree. 

I grew up with banding when the Major had his successes with Dyke in the 70's-80's, making him look like God to me. When invited to Belgium to conduct Willebroek he stayed some days with me, and I experienced what a honourable man he is.

Later I invited him to conduct another top section band in Belgium, and he was ready to help us to whatever conditions, time, place - fully convicted to get the very best out of the band.

A very fine man, a great musician, a great leader.

"Major" is each sense of the word.

Edy Van Asch
Belgium 

Reports of our deaths…

In your recent article on Pontins, you reminisce over the demise of many bands including the Warburtons Bolton Band…

Well as Mark Twain once said, ‘The report of my death is an exaggeration’. 

The Warburtons Bolton Band is still alive and kicking, but these days goes under the name of Bolton (Hoover) Band…and may they live a long and successful life.

Andy Wyatt 

Gone but revived...

Just reading your article about bands that are no longer with us and noticed Langbaurgh are on there?  

We actually changed our name to North Skelton on 1st October this year and you put a splendid article on you news page saying that.

Although we have been quiet on the contesting front, we are alive and kicking and hoping to compete at the Durham Brass Band Association contest in 3 weeks time. 

We have back at the helm Tim Oldroyd as our conductor and already have swelled our ranks. Please could you amend your records don't want anyone thinking we've disappeared forever!

Josie Coupland
North Skelton Band (formerly Langbaurgh Brass) 

Alive and kicking...

I read with interest your report on bands that have competed at Pontins that are no longer with us, it's very sad to see so many of these bands have disappeared never to return over the last thirty years.

I am delighted to let everyone know however, that the South East Derbyshire Band is still alive and kicking. 

South East Derbyshire Music Centre Youth Band as it was formally known in those days, won the 4th Section title at Pontins in 1984.

From there it went through several name changes, firstly Orion Airways Brass, then Britannia Airways Brass and, until a few years ago, Thorntons Brass. The band enjoyed a rapid rise from Fourth section in 1984 to Championship section in 1991. Since that time it remained either in the First or Championship section. 

The association with Thorntons (yes the chocolate makers!) ended several years ago and the band, like so many others experienced some difficult times and has not competed since 2003.

However, as some of your readers may remember, we announced back in March that the band has re-grouped and are enjoying rehearsing and performing again under our new name of Sir Richard Arkwright's Masson Mills Band.

The band has decided to not compete, but rather channel our efforts into high profile charity concerts. So far in 2008, our three public performances have helped raise around £12,000.00 for local charitable causes. 

I just wonder how many other bands that have disappeared off the contesting radar are still in existence in some form? 

Phil Peat
Sir Richard Arkwright's Masson Mills Band 

Not contesting but still going strong

Having read with interest your article on bands no longer with us who in the past have won at Pontins, I’m delighted to report that the former East Lancs Paper Mill Group Band is still going strong, having reverted back to the traditional name of Radcliffe Brass Band when the sponsorship ended in the 80s. 

Radcliffe Band had a few years of struggle, but now as a non contesting band proudly boasts 27+ players at most rehearsals, and has recently performed at a sold out concert to over 200 people.

We may not contest anymore, but the band is most certainly alive and well!

Matthew Bailey
MD Radcliffe Brass Band 

BBC neglect?

Next week is National Youth Music Week, funded by Government grants.

What is being done by Brass Bands to promote banding in this week?

On 'You & Yours' on BBC Radio 4 on Friday, people were extolling the benefits to young people of learning to play an instrument and how music can help team building. They were praising all kinds of music from classical to rap, BUT, there was no mention of brass banding!

Michael Fryer, of BANDSTAND, contacted the programme and at the end they announced: 'Michael Fryer reminds us not to forget brass bands - Free Tuition; Free instrument loan and Friendship'

On Sunday's Bandstand radio show, Michael and Val are continuing the youth theme they started last week. Can anyone suggest ways to make the powers-that-be aware of the benefits of banding to young people?

Michael Fryer 

Unified registration

The idea of a unified registration system throughout the British Isles is common sense, unfortunately this is hardly ever in good supply!  What purpose do three separate organisations serve?  

Triplication of costs, triplication of work and multiplication of confusion!
 
Comment regarding who can play, when and how should be left to a National Brass Band referendum, let the bands vote on rules about deadlines before contests and other contentious issues.  

If rules are not to their satisfaction do something about them or stop moaning. 
 
Mike Hughes   

The demise of a National Champion?
 
I feel I can't let this report go unchallenged.
 
In 1860 there were two contests at Crystal Palace, both organised by Enderby Jackson of Hull. The first, held on Tuesday, 10th July was open to all comers and was called The National Contest. Black Dyke Mills were the winners, Saltaire were placed second and Cyfarthfa third.
 
On the following day the second contest took place and was called The Sydenham Contest. Bands placed 1st and 2nd on the Tuesday were not allowed to compete on the Wednesday - to give the others a chance!
 
True, Cyfarthfa took top honours in this contest but that hardly rates the title 'National Champions'. This series of Crystal Palace contests ran for four years but, to the best of my knowledge, Cyfarthfa did not compete again. Nor did they ever compete in the series of Nationals organised by John Henry Iles, from 1900.
 
Is the report Welsh pride or Irish blarney?
 
Roy Newsome

4BR Reply:
Perhaps a little artistic licence, but it does show that the demise of top level bands isn't a new phenomenon. 

Thanks

Gentlemen could you please include this thank you message in your publications /web pages on behalf of the Ritchie family. 

Walter, Marie Ritchie and family would like to thank everyone who sent messages of condolence, and to all those who attended the funeral service for their son Alan.  

A very special thanks to Tony Wilson, Neil Day and all the players who made up the band to play during the service, it meant so much to us.  A collection on the day plus donations sent in raised £570.65 for the Air Ambulance, and  £478.17 for Lives.  

Thank you all once again for your kindness.

Walter Ritchie

Problems with Grimethorpe?

I write in response to Glyn Edwards comments regarding the Grimethorpe concert prior to the results of the National Championships. 
 
I have no particular affiliation with a band and thought the winners on Saturday were quite superb. However, it would appear that Mr Edwards has a problem, not with the concert, but with Grimethorpe band itself.  I attended the concert and whilst I did not find the music to my taste I did appreciate that the band had played number one, virtually destroying any chance of a hat-trick, and that the players must have had all day to kill before the concert. 

After 20 performances (and I did hear them all) I was looking forward to what promised to be a different programme, although this perhaps did not quite come off. 
 
Mr Edwards talks of presentation and deportment, yet one of the very reasons Grimethorpe are one of my favourite bands is due to the fact that they always seem to be enjoying themselves on stage! 

As for Mr Edwards' comments about the band website, I think Grimethorpe are one of the few bands who do not deem it necessary to issue a press release informing us of every detail of their organisation.  A little self promotion now and again on one's own website is surely not a crime. 

Mr Edwards bemoans a "lack of banding values"; I hope he will be purchasing the new CD by the Foden's band of which 4BR asks "is it a return to serious brass band values?" Does Mr Edwards perhaps write for 4BR?
 
Many congratulations to all the bands at London, a great day's contesting and some outstanding performances.
 
Oliver Parsons
London

4BR Reply:
We can assure you Mr Edwards does not, and has never written for, 4BR. 

Shambles

Well done lads on the latest reports from the Royal Albert Hall.

Having spent a long day at the contest I must agree with you on the overall standard of the playing (which was very good), and the overall standard of the post contest presentations (which were not).

I for one enjoyed Grimethorpe’s efforts, even though they did sound under rehearsed, but at least they tried something different. As for the presentations? What an embarrassment.

No wonder people now just wait for the results to appear on their mobile phones. No one wants to go through that shambles ever again.

Well done for being brave enough to point it out forcibly – other publications did not. If the brass band movement wants to be taken seriously then someone has to make sure that this does not happen again.

Peter Cole
Hereford 

The numbers tell the story

Does Philip Morris really believe ‘brass bands are back’?

I would hazard an educated guess that the hall was never more than half full on the weekend. As a regular attendee at the Royal Albert Hall for concerts, these exclusively booked days have a seating limit of 5,222 (according to the Albert Hall website.)

4BR stated that it was nearly two thirds full at times, but that is way off the mark I am sure. That's near 3500 people. No way.

This was the worse attended National in my memory, and I have been coming here for over 30 years now. These are signs for everyone, and I am sure the management of the Albert Hall will think so too. If it carries on like this, someone will be forced to make a decision to end the National here – and soon.

Richard Smith  

I hate Grimethorpe?

I would like to offer a reply to Mr Glyn "I hate Grimethorpe" Edwards in reference to his poorly informed article relating to the concert at the Albert Hall prior to the results.
 
It's easy for Mr Edwards to pass judgement on one of the countries finest ever brass bands. Obviously he has never, and will never, experience the pressures of top flight banding and the commitment that is required to perform at the very best in the contest field. 

When you throw in an additional concert on the day of the Nationals it makes it nearly impossible to devote as much time to rehearsal of the concert programme as the importance is naturally on rehearsing the test piece.

Given the choice of rehearsing a test piece in an attempt to create a historic moment by achieving a 'hat-trick' of wins, I'd like to have thought that it wouldn't have taxed Mr Edwards to much to come to the conclusion that the contest piece is of paramount importance. Add in the fact that Alan Withington lives in Norway, so rehearsal time is limited.
 
The concert may not have been everyone’s cup of tea, but at least Grimethorpe tried something different rather than play the same tired concert programmes that have been churned out by bands in previous years.

Many people I spoke to loved the programme and thoroughly enjoyed the singing - even if it was a little off key at times!

Not many Yorkshiremen have a high register voice like Freddy Mercury so it is understandable that it may have been a tall order to expect them to rise gracefully in the re-enactment of some of pops classic anthems.
 
As for in jokes and banter, the members of Grimethorpe live and breath brass music and have a great deal in common, often spending more time with each other than they do with their wives and girlfriends, so letting off steam now and again and enjoying themselves is only to be expected.

I found it refreshing to see the players enjoying participating in making music fun and not turning it in to the stale and poorly attended event it has become.

As for Alan having to try to inject some life in to the octogenarians in the audience, he should be commended. Although it may have been easier if he had used a defibrillator!
 
The comparison to professional orchestras is also naïve. I have attended concerts by many top line orchestras, and some of their behaviour has at times fallen way short of the professional standards we expect of them.

It seems to me that the behaviour of the Grimethorpe players wasn’t unprofessional in any way and was considerably better than their professional counterparts.
 
The Grimey website gives the facts. They drew number 1 - this was obviously disappointing. They were only given 7th place - also true. This doesn't exactly scream "we was robbed and we should of won!" 
 
I urge Mr Edwards to enter the real world (admission is free) where nobody is perfect, bands don’t always play your favourite music, bandsmen will enjoy making music and are not robots.

A little more humility on his part may be welcomed along with being less judgemental and cutting with his remarks in future.  

Mike Dorley
Rippon 

National reflections
 
I attended this year’s Nationals, having last attended in 2003.  

I'm pleased to say that it was worth the effort, and I had a thoroughly enjoyable day. Not least was the rare opportunity to see a number of old friends and colleagues, and to spend some quality time with my son and hear him play. 

I also had the chance to rekindle a lot of memories of the time I spent in top class banding – varied of course, but all thoroughly worthwhile.
 
I've heard a number of wide ranging opinions from players perspectives on the test piece, but as an informed listener I felt it provided a good test, and, whilst it won't linger in my memory as a great favourite, it was certainly not unpleasant to listen to and I enjoyed it. 

I'd like to hear the piece in its entirety with the missing Scherzo.  Without it, the structure of the piece seemed to lack a sense of cohesion and balance, and the sudden transition in mood and pace from the energetic first movement to the Lento took a bit of getting used to. 

However, this was a contest, and, as always, logistics are always a more of a priority than musical integrity in what is primarily a sporting event. 

I'm happy to say that I didn't hear any poor performances.  I was surprised however that nearly all the bands I heard struggled with the final chord at the close of the second movement.  

Without wishing to be too harsh, my observation was that in many cases the conductors appeared to contribute as much to the uncertainty of the entry as the players. 

Whilst on the subject of conductors, winning the National is about a lot more than just preparing a good performance of the test piece according to your own musical tastes, sensitivities and beliefs, and good use of the resources at your disposal.  I think it's reasonable to say that, to their credit, all the conductors achieved that. 

For instance, it was good to see Phil Chalk and Faireys doing so well together. After a challenging few years it was good to hear them once again sounding as I remember them.  They've shown great character in keeping things going where other bands in similar circumstances have thrown in the towel 

Black  Dyke were a popular and deserved winner, whilst I enjoyed Grimethorpe's Queen set  -  warts and all  -  for the piece of light entertainment it was intended to be after the intensity of the contest performances. 

I didn't know whether to laugh or cringe at the comment about the Welsh Guards fanfare trumpeters  -   "I wonder how much they got paid for 30 seconds work"?    It was an ill informed comment from the person involved.

Finally, I was amazed at how many people were able to buy tickets on the day  - and disappointed at the number of empty seats in the hall.   

It doesn't seem that long ago when, if you hadn't got your ticket by the end of July/August, you were unlikely to get one.  Doesn't that tell you something about the ever decreasing popularity and appeal of brass bands, and the waning numbers of people actually participating and showing an interest outside their own bandrooms?  

Maybe contesting is just for the purists and of limited appeal to those outside the "club", but it really does seem to me that brass bands are just content playing to each other these days. 

That's a terrible waste and a great shame, because I'm sure there's still a much wider audience out there, which would take an interest if the bands offered them what they wanted. 

Steve Walkley
Tunbridge Wells 

The answer lies in the lower sections

Interesting to hear your views on the podcast about why the RAH was emptier for the 2008 National than it was 20 years ago.

You said that bringing back popular pieces, and making the whole event more family friendly, was the key to success. I’m not so sure.
 
I went to the finals in 1986, 1987, 1988 and 1989 as a spectator. The pieces were ‘Harmony Music’, ‘Seascapes’ and ‘Odin’. The place was packed on all three occasions.

Why? The pieces were a mixture of populist and challenging for the listener, so it wasn’t the music choice. It was still a long day, which made it difficult for families to take part, but there were loads of young faces there.

I seem to remember in 1987 the stage was bombarded by paper aeroplanes thrown from the circle, gallery and gods by loads of enthusiastic kids!
 
The real reason RAH was packed back then was that all the sections had their finals in London on the same weekend, and that the players from the 4th, 3rd, 2nd and Youth sections all crammed into the RAH to hear Black Dyke etc. strut their considerable stuff.

Is there any way that the lower section could come back to London, and all the finals happen on the same weekend again? I’m sure this would galvanise the movement, and fill the RAH.  
 
Dafydd Sills-Jones 

Annoyance with the judges credentials

As an experienced professional player in both bands and orchestras, together with conducting both, I am forced to question the validity and selection of adjudicators for band contests.

As a contributor to the movement I feel I am entitled to know the credentials and qualifications of these people!!!!

I feel that the details of all ABBA listed adjudicators should be listed and free for anyone to see before more accusations of nepotism become proven.

Yours in annoyance
Brian Harper

4BR Reply:
To be fair Brian, the major contest programmes always gives a full CV of each of the adjudicators, the ABBA website http://www.abbadjudicators.org.uk/  does give details of their members (many with full CV entries) and 4BR also prints CVs for the judges at the main contests too. All for free too!

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