Comments ~ 2007: March (Part 2 - 25th March onwards)

Rattling the cages and writing to the people who know as we come to the end of a very long and exhaustive month.

Why not put it in writing?

In reply to Jim Owen, Rossendale regarding "why only one man in the box at Blackpool" may I suggest that he puts his enquiry in writing to his Regional Committee via the Regional Secretary who I am sure will be able to answer his question in private rather than a public discussion via the world wide web.

I would recommend this course of action for anyone with a query regarding their Regional Contest. Regional Secretaries are usually more than willing to answer any queries if approached in the proper manner.

Anyone having difficulty finding contacts details are welcome to contact me via the Yorkshire Championships website www.regional-contest.org.uk/yorkshire and I will be pleased to give them the contact details for their own Regional Secretary.

Peggy Tomlinson,
Yorkshire Regional Secretary.

Rattling the cage!
 
Oh dear! I seem to have rattled Mr. Keith Wardle's cage with my last letter on adjudicators.
 
I must admit to being rather puzzled by the criteria on which he judges "superb" brass players. I certainly don't know of any who could neither read a bar of soap or are unable to phrase two semibreves unless instructed. Clearly our assessment of what constitutes "superb" differ somewhat.
 
In my 25 years experience of teaching at music colleges in the north of England the best assessors and examiners I have come across have been, without fail, highly regarded musicians, be it composers, conductors or performers with a background in professional music.
 
None have been amateur musicians with a certificate in adjudication.
 
I would argue that being a top class musician equips you with more skills applicable to being an adjudicator than being a "qualified" adjudicator equips you to be a good musician.
 
All that brass bands really require is to be judged by people they can respect as musicians.
 
Sandy Smith
Holmfirth

The simple job of the adjudicator

Here we go again chaps – fantastic site – please keep it up.
 
I must admit to being completely fed up of people giving reactions (even though they may think they are valid) so publicly about adjudicators. They have a job to do. Simple.

For myself, I found the comments and warmth shown by Dr Childs at London SC to be marvellous, but we shouldn't necessarily expect them. We all know the rules ladies and gents; please let them do their job. 
 
Andy Austin

Players and conductors as judges 
 
In response to Sandy Smith's letter, apparently defending the positions of good players and conductors to automatically be considered as prime candidates for adjudication duties - this mixes up two very different possibilities that are actually nothing to do with each other. - Conductors who are consistently successful - OK, Yes.
 
Players? – Now't to do with it. I have throughout my life known dozens of superb brass players - many of whom could not read a bar of soap
 
Some of the best of these performers wouldn't know how to phrase two semibreves - unless instructed - with the further problem that once they had been instructed on a way to do this, they wouldn't then be able to see that there may be even a better way - now they really are a lot of use as judges! - particularly at an own choice!
 
That doesn't work for me.
 
Keith Wardle

We need an answer from someone in authority

There must have been at least 6 readers (writers) who wrote into your column with various moans and groans about this years Regionals (myself included) and the main moan was "why only one man in the box at Blackpool"? 

Well, is there nobody out there in authority able to answer a simple question?  Beware; ignore us at your peril, because if we continue to have such an uneven national playing field, then one or two of us will be taking our ball home and not bothering!
 
Jim Owen
Crawshawbooth
Rossendale

Blatant hypocrisy

Dear Mr. Malpas/Cwmaman Institute Brass Band,
 
I note your justifiable grievance with my comments on 4BR. Within minutes of sending my second letter to the editor I realised the blatant hypocrisy of my comments, and accordingly felt a bit of a prat. I immediately sent an apology for my inconsistency, to be published on 4barsrest, the exact wording of which was as follows:
 
"There is an inherent and blatant hypocrisy in my previous two contributions. I apologise."
 
No doubt Iwan Fox will be only too happy to confirm that I sent this letter. Unfortunately this was not published so you were not aware that I had realised my folly. Please pass on my apology to your band and trombone soloist. I had no intention of becoming a critic, I am not qualified to do so.

Regarding the recording, unfortunately none was made at Torquay this year.
 
Thomas Malleson

After 30 years away - I never knew so much was going on...

It has been a long time since I've read anything concerning brass bands! I did attend the area finals at Swansea last week; the last time I sat in that hall was 1974 so it was a little nostalgic for me.

Since then I've found 4barsrest. I didn't realise there was so much going on and I will continue to use same. Please carry on the good work.

John Bowen

Far from blaming someone

Re: Comment from Ian Clarke
 
Far from looking for someone to blame, I am merely asking for common sense. Had we been told when we asked on several occasions whether a clash was possible and told repeatedly not to worry then suitable preparation could have been made with a ‘stand in' conductor. Someone who could have done some rehearsals with the band knowing full well that they may have to do the performance on the day.

The fact that we were specifically told we would be catered for and to then have this completely changed is just wrong. Thank you to all who have contacted us with kind words regarding this situation.

Anyway:

Moving forward congratulations to the band for putting the past behind them, moving on and winning the fourth section at Tameside contest you all did yourselves extremely proud and got a well deserved result.
 
James Holt 

London & Southern Counties

In the right Zone

I'll probably get slated for this by my own band, but I have to say I agree with your correspondents assessment of the London & Southern Counties Area Championship section.

Though it's difficult to be objective about one's own performance in relation to others, I listened to both Zone 1 and Redbridge. Don't get me wrong, Redbridge played very well and had a lovely sound. Lisa on Euph was splendid in particular, but I did find the performance a little lacking in adventure. It was, for me though, a bit like they were playing within themselves and relying on their sound to get the job done, how very cunning and wily....
 
Anyway, even though I am biased in as much as I'm an old Royal College chap, I was really impressed with Zone 1 and really don't think their supposedly "lighter" sound should have cost them a place at the Finals.

Their sound is built on the solid foundation of a really top-notch bass section for a start. Allied to their technical security and the obvious impact Paul Archibald's musicality has had, it really was a good performance. I particularly enjoyed Paul Munday's flugel playing - it was spot on. Also Craig on principal cornet. Possibly the only YORKSHIRE-man in that seat on the day... I'm assuming Dr Childs didn't know that....(!)

The other thing I really liked was that they all had their walking out gear on all day and had hired a coach to get there and back. How traditional! Even though they were disappointed at the result there was no animosity from them and they didn't feel the need to tear the place apart or be rude to other bands.
 
Dr Childs said he was confident he'd picked the two bands capable of doing well at the Albert Hall and sound-wise he is probably right. If Redbridge and ourselves play to the very top of our ability there that is certainly true. However, that sort of negates the need for the area contest because we know that anyway. I thought it was about what happens on the day at the areas and that the best two performances should go through. I have no doubt that his assessment was sincere, though. I am not casting aspersions; this is just my personal opinion. I certainly do not envy any adjudicator their job!
 
To finally get to the point I wanted to make. Surely it's time for Zone 1 to go to Blackpool for the Spring Festival and work their way through as Alliance have. Also, it wouldn't be a bad thing for the Masters if they got an invite either. You never know who might withdraw, I'm sure they'd be able to put a band out.... These players are the future. Not all of them will have a full-time career in the increasingly cut-throat music-world, but it would be a shame if they were lost to banding as well. They take it seriously, they should be encouraged and with any luck that will benefit us and Redbridge.
 
It is time that a London band made a significant impact at the finals. I hope that ourselves and Redbridge do that. We proved it is possible by winning the Grand Shield. That has to be continued now.
 
These are my own opinions and in no way reflect on Aveley & Newham band.
 
Jon Kitchen.

One from an insecure baritone player...

May I first say "well done" on a what seems a fair representation of the L&SC Championship Section area. 

I wonder if, however, Robert Richardson could justify his comment regarding Haverhill's "slightly insecure start"?  Being the band's chairman and (not without coincidence) their first baritone player, I feel offended at this comment. 

Dr. Nicholas Childs wrote in his remarks "Very good baritones".  All comments I heard throughout the remainder of the day were equally favourable. May I congratulate Robert, however, on overlooking Tim's performance blemishes and extolling the virtues of this truly terrific player.

Kevin Jones
Chairman
First Baritone ('though now back on euphonium)
Haverhill Silver Band

Wrong picture

I note that you have now removed the MD picture formerly on the L&SC 1st Section Retrospective page which was (I think) of Egham's conductor (2nd Section winners?).

At the time of writing there is still a pic up of a woman collecting a prize - but it isn't the Broseley representative. Might be the second or third place band in 1st Section, I think.

Dave Johnston

Infuriated by lack of identity!
 
After our win at the first section area's LSC I eagerly awaited the retrospective. How disappointed was I when i saw that the picture used of " Broseley's rep gets her hands on the first prize"  was not anybody from Broseley!!!
 
The article was added to the website on the 22nd March and it's still not changed. I am infuriated to say the least.
 
I am aware that other members of the band may have also emailed in but how long do we have to wait for something to be done about it and might I add receive an apology.
 
I know we weren't in your top six to win but the 1st place was well deserved and our recognition should be no different to any other band. I'm sure there'd be an almighty fuss if you pictured Dyke instead of Brighouse.
 
Rachael Penfold
Broseley Brass

4BR Reply:
We apologise for getting some of the pictures wrong in London. We tried our best and we have since amended the articles.

North West:

Another infamous result

May I fully agree with Mr. Whitfield's comments regarding the North West 1st Section at Blackpool. 

Once again we were treated to one of Mr. Roy Roe's infamous results.  How on earth does the contesting council who picks the panel of adjudicators keep coming up with this person, especially at such a major contest!! 

It is of little wonder that we are losing so many players in the movement when we have Mr. Roe coming up with results like these!!! Maybe he would be more suited to adjudicating at such venues as the Giggleswick Glass Bottle Blowers Festival instead of doing such irreparable harm to the brass band movement.  Many of the players in the aforementioned bands by Mr. Whitfield must be totally brassed off!!

Nathan Nattle
(Totally Brassed Off!!)

4BR Reply:
The result is the result Nathan, and it is always the only one that counts even if you may not agree with it.

Silly system needs to be sorted out

I cannot help but agree with Alan Smith's comments about this silly system we have to endure for arranging an order of play on contest day.

If you think it through it makes good sense to have the contest ‘pre-drawn'. This enables any bands management to arrange a sensible itinerary for the day, it will ease problems with parking arrangements at the venue, it will help with the inevitable problem of too many bands wanting too few rehearsal facilities and most importantly, will remove much of the stress to players on the day.
 
It is not as if a pre-drawn contest is an unknown quantity. It has already been done, and very successfully. Just one example was the Lansing Bagnall contest held in Basingstoke in the late 70's/early ‘80's. This was the smoothest run contest I have ever experienced, not least because everyone knew exactly what they were doing.
 
I imagine that the main reason a draw on the day has remained popular is because of worries about cheating. Well I would suggest that this fear is very much ‘out of date' as anyone with a mobile phone, some imagination, and no conscience could still cheat. Besides, to suggest that this kind of foul play would take place is a slur on the integrity of our adjudicators, and if contest organisers don't trust them they shouldn't be engaging them!
 
Roger Pearcey.
Suffolk.

Do not blame the organisers
 
Whilst I empathise with the problems encountered by the writer I can't help but feel blaming the organisers is not fair. 
 
He may have checked and double checked to ensure everything would be fine, but the draws are random and therefore there was always going to be chance that the clash happened.
 
It often happens where a conductor plays and conducts in more than one section, but that person has to take responsibility for ensuring they can do both.
 
Ian Clarke

Entering the world of being a critic
 
In response to Thomas Malleson and his description of our trombone soloist at Yeovil (Cwmaman Institute Band) this year makes him sound no better than Mr Fox himself.

Congratulations, you have now entered the art of being a critic.

If you're not happy with what is to be said about your band, don't log on to 4BR again, they write articles to shock and this is how they have built their empire and good luck to them, no one else thought of it.

If you had the opportunity to listen to your performance like we did with Dolce Productions producing CD's on the day, this is the first time in years I have agreed with Mr Fox on his comments.

However an air caution Mr Fox, you should be sitting nearer the adjudicators tent and not sitting in the third row taking photographs (Welsh Regional Championships). This will not correspond to how the adjudicator hears it.

Tim Malpas 

4BR Reply:
Thanks for the rather double edged endorsement Tim. We didn't know we had to 'correspond' to how the adjudicators hear it - that would make our opinions a touch boring don't you think - especially as Iwan wasn't even at Yeovil this year! 

Numbers in the box
 
In reply to Mr. Roger Lincolns letter "numbers in the box" (comments 21.3.07)
 
Contrary to Mr. Lincolns' opinion that being a current or one time good player or a good conductor doesn't automatically make someone a good adjudicator I would proffer that the skills required in being a top class musical performer and/or conductor would be exactly the skills required for assessing the performances of others.
 
I value the opinion of someone whose musical credentials hold up under scrutiny far more than someone with the requisite "paperwork".
 
I take it that under Mr. Lincolns directive he would preclude the use, as adjudicators, of conductors and players from the professional music field on the grounds that they haven't passed an exam?
 
To quote Sir Thomas Beecham - "A musicologist is a man who can read music but can't hear it".
 
Perhaps our problems with adjudicators stem from having too many musicologists involved.
 
Sandy Smith
Holmfirth
West Yorkshire

Everyones - and my - opinion!  

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and nowhere more so than in music. Here is mine ...(not my bands)
 
I have never written in to 4Bars rest before; even though I have played in brass bands since 1973, but I cannot let this particular issue go- despite knowing that it will be seen simply as sour grapes by some and an overreaction by others, and having given myself a week or so to calm down -hoping that I would just be able to ‘get on with it' as a good grown up should!
 
I play with Penicuik Silver Band, and have done so on and off since I was 14 (on a variety of instruments). We have had our ups and downs around the bottom sections (4th and 3rd) and I have learnt to take the criticisms sometimes well meant and helpful, on other occasions not so much so, over many contests- national, regional and local in that time, and have tried to improve my own playing as a result.
 
On this occasion, I welcomed the generally helpful tone of the two extremely well qualified judges in Dundee and their avoidance of the usual habit of offering the section as a whole generally negative remarks on tuning, intonation etc. However I was not able to agree at all with their assessment of bands against their speed of playing the piece.
 
I know that our band had rehearsed and played on the day at very close to the speeds as marked on the copy by the composer- having, as we all do, rehearsed the piece for months on end (and In my own case having worked at home with a metronome on the horn solo in the second movement).
 
I am also aware that our conductor- a professional musician with many years of experience at the highest levels in the classical music world- was happy that we had performed the piece at a speed that, if not exact, was very close to the markings, and I have no reason not to trust his assessment. 
 
I cannot accept that it was correct to tell us all as a section that (under contest conditions) we should ignore the markings and play for the " feel " of the music, as the judges suggested in their comments. If this was the case why give a speed indication at all?  And if we are to be judged on a personal view of an appropriate speed rather than what's on the copy - how are we to know what that is to be from year to year and piece to piece? 
 
More galling, having listened to the CD recording issued as a 'guide' by SBBA on the way back from Dundee in the car, I confirmed to myself that we had played on stage at a speed similar to the recording we were told was an 'exemplar' for us. If we are to be given a guide recording, should this not also be used by the judges as part of their standard for judging?
 
I am as usual deeply disappointed by our placing (last) , but wonder whether the small turn out of 6 bands from the 4th section in Scotland reflects a shared concern by bottom section bands about the apparent variability of opinion in  judging them on a single result a year?
 
I understand other areas at least use an average over three years- why is this not standard for promotion across the UK? If we are to be judged for competence on playing a single piece why is there not more consistent guidance to judges on what constitutes a 'good ' performance?  
 
"The prizes go to those who show accuracy in playing what is marked on the copy", many conductors (including current  top section conductors)  that have passed in front of me have said , and I have listened and tried to do just that - just as many other musicians have done and no doubt will do in future .
 
Well, we played at the speeds marked on the copy and this was judged 'incorrect' . So I ask myself why bother?

Oh and by the way I don't agree that the music 'nearly ground to a halt' as your commentator states in the review on your web page - this seems to be based on taking a cue from the judges remarks about speeds and interpretations .

Alasdair Mathers

Not all good players make great adjudicators

In response to Roger Lincoln's comments, I agree that not all one time good players, conductors etc make good adjudicators, but equally being a member of an organisation with a piece of paper saying you have passed the exam does not always make you a good adjudicator either.

I believe good adjudicators have a special talent to listen and understand what the performer is trying to say and yes we do need more of them.

I also agree that there should be consistency in the number of adjudicators and introducing two for such an important contest as the qualifying rounds, I think, was a good idea and I think all the regions should adopt this.

I was equally interested in your comments re: Placido Domingo as I consider myself to be a number one fan of his having seen him perform around the world over many years,  I agree he is not the worlds best conductor, however, I am sure he must have the same effect as a 'visiting conductor' to a band just before a contest, the very fact that they are there listening to YOU makes you sit on the edge of your seat and perform much better than you may otherwise do.

He would certainly do that to me!!

Jane Clay

Postcard Pat

Thank you for presenting Pat Herak's article about the Hannaford Community Showcase performances. The Metropolitan Silver Band was proud to be a participant in the showcase again this year and we appreciate your remarks about our performance and those of our fellow bands.

I should like to point out that, contrary to the article, we did not cut any movements of "Suite Gothique". All 4 very demanding movements were performed in full.  Due to the length of "Suite Gothique", "El Relicario" (arr. Kendrick) and "Sometimes I Fell Like a Motherless Child" (arr. Gordon) would have made the program about 4 too minutes long so we elected to cut them for the sake of time.

Also, although the founding membership of the Met band was indeed from the Salvation Army some 74 years ago and we honour and perform the exceptional brass band repertoire created in the Salvation Army tradition, our current "broad sound" and choice of repertoire perhaps more aptly reflects our association with the Metropolitan United Church in downtown Toronto and the opportunity to play with Canada's largest pipe organ.

Thanks once again to Mr. Herak for the article and we will look forward to reading many more in your publication.

Fran Harvey
Music Director
Metropolitan Silver Band

Lost soprano
 
I wonder if you could ask on your site if anybody found a Yamaha sop at Stevenage last Sunday. I don't expect to get it back but you never know.

My telephone no is 01708 456873.
 
Cliff Pask

Thanks Phil

We at Struer FDF Brass band, have been using Phil Lawrence book on Technical exercises in past few months, and I must say that the book have been really usefull, as my band (mostly youth) have steadily been improving on the technical side. Thanks Phil!

Martin Thorup
Conductor
Struer FDF Brass Band

Old Kentucky Home

In response to Gordon Eddison's comment on a piano part for My Old Kentucky Home.  I have recently purchased the piano part and solo part for My Old Kentucky Home by J. Hartmann. 

Is this the same arrangement you require it for?  If so I purchased it from www.justmusicuk.com!!!

Adam Jones

I have it too

I have a piano part to My Old Kentucky Home, and can be contacted at thesupersop@fsmail.net

Peter Roberts

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