Comments ~ 2006: October

The first responses to London; Jingle Balls; Hard to rid of Staines and 4BR getting it wrong as usual. What more can you ask for eh?

Suits You Frank!

I attended with a friend of mine the National brass band contest on  Saturday. After hearing several of the bands I thought there was one  thing that stood out more than any other - Frank Renton's suit.

I  think 4barsrest should introduce a be a new criteria at the Nationals  next year "Best Dressed Conductor". Please please let me have the  number of his tailor, I'm sure it is not M&S.

Ian Atkinson

You got it wrong 4BR 

Having just returned from the Nationals I cannot resist commenting on 4barsrest pre-contest criticism of 'Judges'.

It was magnificent - great to listen to and clearly a real test for all the bands. This made it relatively easy to identify the top bands and I suspect, most of the audience would agree about the top 4, (Not neccessaraly the order but it was very close) .

4barsrest did a real disservice to this piece and anyone put off attending by negative comments (not too many if the size of the audience was anything to go by)  missed out on a great day.

Magic - Can't wait for October 2007!!
 
Graham Rix 

An enjoyable test piece

I would like to say how much I enjoyed hearing the performances of 'Les Francs Juges' on Saturday at the Royal Albert Hall.  I have read with interest over the last few weeks at the rubbish that has been written about the choice of piece for the finals.

How wrong can people be.. Saying the piece would be too easy and not a good enough test.  I think the proof was on the day.

How many bands even started together?  two possibly three out of twenty, how many made the music flow as Berlioz intended? not many, how many gave you that tingle that you feel when the passion and the excitement is there? One maybe two.

I felt this was a good test for a brass band on how to play the basics, a lot of players don't seem to know how to do this.  We can be taught over time to play fast moving semi-quavers and triple tonguing etc but how many are taught to make a wonderful full sound that the instrument was designed to give and how many are taught to play together as a team not as a group of individuals.

Allan Withington is absolutely right in his comments that the piece ensured bands had to master the basics of good brass band playing, and that is what made it a very difficult test piece.

Congratulations to Grimethorpe who gave a wonderful and exciting performance of 'Les Francs Juges' and well deserve the title of National Champions.

Jane L Clay

Hard to get rid of Staines

I notice that you listed Staines as Debutantes at this year's RAH National Finals. I can in fact confirm that the band's first appearance at the finals was in fact 1996 (Isaiah 40) when the band was placed 17th out of 18.

The band had justifiably qualified in second place at the then Watford area Contest on John Golland's `Sounds'. A year when Redbridge and one or two other recognised names misjudged the intricacies of the piece.
 
I also note that in one of the qualifying years when Staines were in the Championship section (1997), the result is missing. It was in fact 8th when the test piece was Blitz.
 
I hope this fills the gaps for you.
 
I was at yesterday's finals and witnessed a fine performance from Staines which set the standard for the day and realised their aims for the year...`to qualify for the National Finals, Aim for promotion in the Senior Trophy, challenge the regional title holders (Aveley) and try to reach single figures in the results. Three of these goals were achieved and it was such a near miss on the fourth.
 
And there's more to come......Well Done Staines....a tremendous effort
 
Bob Hawkins
Brooklyn, USA

4BR Reply:
Thanks for pointing out our oversight Bob. We checked it out and in fact Staines came 18th out of 19 bands in 1996. They certainly improved on that this weekend. The record books have been amanded.

Well done Staines
 
I would like to say a public well done to Staines Brass for their good performance and 11th place at the recent National Finals. From the depths of the 1st section to the Royal Albert Hall in just over 2 years is something to be proud of and is a great achievment in a such a short space of time.
 
Well Done!!

John Storey
(Coldstream Guards Band)

Jingle Balls not Jingle Bells 

I read, with disgust, your story re. the plight of Callington Town Band and the new Licensing Act 2003. This is political correctness gone mad.

I have one question which I would like to put forward to your readership. If a band has purchased a piece of music, what rights does that entitle them to. Does it include a de facto license to perform the work they have just bought or is it merely to be played within the confines of the band hall for their own enjoyment?

I think perhaps the government needs a rethink on this one, or perhaps the country needs a rethink on them! Suddenly David Cameron and the tory party look like being no worse the the present incumbents.

John Martin
Lochgelly Band

Thanks for the mention but get the band right

Thanks for putting a story on your site about the Berlioz Requiem. Nice to see that the banding press acknowledge the outside world ;-)
 
It would be even better if you had got the Orchestra right. It was the RPO, not the LPO. I was playing in one of the brass choirs and it was very loud!
 
Duncan Wilson

Any news on the changes? 

Some time ago there was some talks about changing the boundaries for regional contests.  (1) Could you please tell me what these changes are (2) Are they actually going to be implemented, if so when? 

Alan Sargeant
Trentham Brass Band

4BR Reply:
Anyone in the know on this one?

Good luck on the assassination job

Even though my assassination job of the choice of test for this years Albert Hall finals was fairly comprehensive, (and I still won't sit for as many as I would have if it had been a new commission), I'd like to say good luck to all bands!
 
And not taking a step backwards, I'd like to add the obvious, to walk out (on your own) in front of a AH finals audience even to play the F and G March would produce a fair amount of unnecessary vibrato plus a warm rush of adrenalin down to the sock.

Good luck to you all, may the dark horses loom high, and above all, make it interesting as in, a silk purse from a sow's ear.
 
Phil Lawrence

An interesting but flawed attempt eh?

I was interested to read R J James' letter to 4barsrest in which he comments on the Wingates Band's CD of Michael Nyman's music.

Although he found the recording to be interesting and enjoyable, he asserts that it is a "flawed attempt to bring a very important composer's work to the banding genre."

Having had the privilege of listening to Wingates play some of Nyman's music at the Bridgewater Hall recently, I would be even more interested to read his reasons for making the assertion.

Dr Frank Hodgson
Guiseley, Leeds

A bass player vents his spleen...
  
James McFadden - you've really stirred a few people up, haven't you?
 
Good, this is what this comments section is all about, people 'venting their spleens' and others responding to it, favourably of unfavourably. So that you don't feel totally isolated, I thought I would support you on one of your points:
 
Speaking as a Bass player, I too get extremely bored of arrangements where the bass part consists of dotted crotchet/quaver rhythm's all the way through, the drum kit behind me playing a steady 'rock-anthem' beat and then there seems to always be the obligatory Flugel solo, half way through, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......
 
On a more serious note: If it wasn't for the strangle-hold that one of this country's major brass band publishers had (has?) for others to get permission to arrange 'up to date' popular music for Brass Band, we wouldn't have had to look to the continent to obtain such music.

There would have been more variety of approach from a wider range of arrangers and it would not have all been so 'Boom-Bangabang - Eurovision' oriented. Now that some of our better arrangers seem to be producing arrangements for the European publishers, the variety of approach and choice for the band music buyer has improved somewhat.
 
Mind you, there are very few bands that can play current popular music in an authentic style, anyway. You only have to go to your local park in the summer to hear what I would describe as ; 'rinky-dinky' rhythm's from the brass players and drummers who feel compelled to over 'fill', or worse, play exactly what is on the part. As for a large number of my fellow Bass players trying (or not) to duplicate a 'plucked' string/electric bass sound,
 
well.................don't get me started.
 
Colin Stevens
BBb Bass Player - Retired.

An MD on a quest

Like James, I too am on a quest.
 
My quest is to portray a brass band in the public's eye, as a viable alternative to staying indoors watching dross on TV, improving the standard of my band, and yes, entertaining people - and that includes the players as well as the audience.
 
If I pay to go to a concert at Symphony Hall, I want to hear first-class music making, that will entertain me. The music may also move me.
 
Whilst I appreciate any and all comments on how to run a band, I am in the very fortunate position of conducting a band in front of sell-out audiences.
We put on several concerts a year (which are all sold out approximately 1 week prior) and this year, we actually started putting on back-to-back concerts (Friday & Saturday) just to cater for the people that couldn't get a ticket. And still both nights are a sell-out!
 
Now to my mind, people wouldn't come to our concerts if they didn't want to be entertained. So maybe some of us conductors do in fact, know how to entertain?
 
I always put on a few pieces that are 'outside of the norm', just to try and challenge my audience and invariably these pieces go down extremely well.
 
I can understand lesser-known composers/arrangers want their music to be bought and played and indeed, be commissioned to write a 'concept' piece, but I don't want to alienate my audience by playing 'concept' pieces that they may not be ready for!
 
As a point of fact, I regularly get emails from members of the audience saying how much they've enjoyed a concert, and saying how they have been moved to tears by some of our pieces (the emotion of a piece, not the standard of our playing!).
 
Cliff Parker MD
Langley Band

A late April Fool?
 
In April this year you printed a news bulletin regarding the programme ‘Best of Brass that was going to happen October on the BBC.

Can you explain what happened to it as there is no further information on it.

Ken Tallentire

4BR Reply:
We think you should go back read the 'news story' a bit more carefully Ken.

Troubled by prize money
 
I am troubled by the thread regarding prize money - particularly in relation to our National Championships.  I would be interested to know how many "Grass Roots" players even contemplate financial reward during preparation or performance.
 
Isn't the honour of winning the most prestigious prize in banding reward enough?
 
Graham Rix

Third rate conductors

Having been forwarded the comments made by a player of West Mercia Constabulary Band and now also having read the comments of a member from the town of Long Eaton, I would wish to clear up a few misconceptions regarding the previous comments made after the Harrogate finals.
 
Firstly to suggest a ("Third rate conductor", to quote the secretary of a band who didn't qualify for the finals but had that bands conductor adjudicating the third section of the finals) should not pass comments about the conduct of the official who announced the bands playing order prior to the results being declared, beggars belief.
 
He obviously made a mistake in calling that person a "third rate conductor" what he obviously meant to say was a "Third Placed Conductor" as he needs to reflect on the results achieved by him whilst conducting his band two years ago.
 
As pointed out in my previous comments, I and the band had no problem at all with the result in Harrogate and indeed agreed with what most of the adjudication stated in our comments. The concerns raised was for the delay in the results after the playing order had been announced, which indeed had been already commented upon in previous comments made by other people.

To suggest that legal action be taken on observations shows the lack of or indeed the inability to understand the reasons behind the observations. ( or maybe there is an ulterior motive behind his comments).
 
To the person from Long Eaton who obviously felt aggrieved, I apologise to them and indeed the band, but do not withdraw my original comments.
 
For Mr Francis may I give him my contest results for this year. 3rd at Butlins, 3rd at the area (WMC 7th) 1st at Oxford (admittedly only out of 5) oh 10th at the finals ( a little depressing I agree). THIRD PLACE CONDUCTOR I feel
 
Howard Gibbs

Call this a Welsh contest?

With reference to the Radio Cymru Radio Brass Band of the Year Contest. What is this contest all about?
To put £4,000 into Buy As You View Band's bank balance? You cannot tell me its a serious competition and looking at the results confirms this.

A band ranked 84 places below Burry Port in the rankings beat them by 11 points! A band ranked 104 places below Tredegar beat them by 6 points!
 
Now come on, I get it wrong sometimes when I try and decide who's the best but surely adjudicators / organisers can we not try and hide a regional decision better than that.
 
Yes, the results are South Wales 1st, North Wales 2nd and Mid Wales 3rd. Now you have made this very poor decision, yes admit its an attempt to keep your audience numbers up, but I doubt many of them will be serious bandsmen ! At least have the good manners to get future decisions correct or could I suggest Brian Buckley in this official capacity needs to look at these results and also question them !
 
90% of the time banding is about competitions, entertainment is (incorrectly) low on the "powers to be" agenda. Therefore it is important to keep some respectability and trust in the accuracy of results.
 
A very disgruntled band supporter.

Paul Robinson

4BR reply:
The contest has in fact been very popular in Wales, even though it has been broadcast on the Welsh language station Paul. The BBC have told us are in fact very pleased with the response it has got and they are in fact looking at brass bands in a very constructive light with a possible television feature in the near future too. The second round is currently being aired, so fingers crossed for you - perhaps those results may make you a bit happier and be as 'accurate' as your Welsh brass band geography! 

Horrified by Mr McFadden

I've never posted onto 4barsrest before.  I was just reading through the articles of this month and last. I had to do something! Whether it gets posted or not, I feel better for writing it!
 
I was horrified to read the comments posted by James McFadden.  I also read the responses and wanted to say I whole heartedly agree with Darrol Barry, Allan Morrison and Andrew Austin, as well as all the others who wrote things.

James, really, how many "entertainment" concerts/contests do you go to? Because all the ones I've been to have been fabulous, the music, the choreography, the conductors.  I remember being young and seeing a band actually open cans of beer on stage (I think it was a bass in the ballroom duet I can't remember where or what band though)

The music might of been "cheesy" but the atmosphere was electric.

As for your comments on 4th section bands, what makes you think you are so high and mighty that you can decide what music is appropriate for what section?  I have heard 4th section bands play "Go West" just as well as a championship section band. 

Entertainment music is exactly what is says on the tin - entertainment music.  Give people the choice, if they want to hear something more traditional then they wouldn't be at an entertainments contest.

Come down off your soap box boy, put your arrangements where your mouth is and get them on the shelves instead of off your website.  I have played music by you once, and that was when you printed it yourself.
Sorry for ranting but really, there is so much more to life than bad mouthing entertainment.

Lorriane Bloice

Another appeal to Mr Whitehead
 
On behalf of the Association of Brass Band Adjudicators (ABBA), I recently publicly appealed to E. Whitehead to provide me with evidence that prompted E. Whitehead to express in this Comments Section denigratory and reputationally damaging assertions regarding the members of the Adjudicating Panels for the 2006 "Masters" Contest and the forthcoming National Finals (Championship Section) at the Royal Albert Hall, London.
 
I requested that this evidence be sent to me by recorded delivery, to minimise the risk of such information going astray in the postal system.  My appeal was made in late September.  It is now approaching late October and the evidence requested has not yet appeared.  So, E Whitehead, I respectfully reiterate my request.
 
Please supply this evidence, or publicly withdraw your damaging assertions from the archives of the 4BarsRest website and apologise to the members of both Adjudicating Panels.
 
These are the only two exits open to you!

C. Brian Buckley

Not often I agree, but....
 
It is not often I agree with Iwan Fox on many subjects, but he has been spot on with his CD reviews of late. His reviews of thee Brass Band Aid CD, and Michael Nyman release  were both precise and accurate in their analysis.

Brass Band Aid is all about raising money and awareness, the playing is secondary, whilst his point about celebrity endorsement in light of Madonna's horribly misplaced adoption action was very prescient. I have heard the CD and have to agree with his sentiments entirely (and he even had the good grace not to mention the mistake on the CD spine). The Nyman meanwhile is a very interesting, enjoyable but flawed attempt to bring a very important composer's work to the banding genre.

Keep it up, it makes for good intelligent reading and also makes your mind up about buying the CDs too.

R. J. James
Ealing   

Prize money lacks important information

Your article about prize money at the Nationals was interesting, but apart from a brief mention towards the end, it lacked the most important information which would have put current prize money into perspective. Which is, how much would the top prize have to be today to match the prizes of yesteryear, once inflation etc. have been taken into account?
 
Well, the miracle of modern technology allows us to find out quite easily. For the winning band in the top section, today's equivalent of £40 in 1900 equates to £2,880 in today's money; £50 in 1926 is £1,930 today; £50 in 1937 is £2,150; 200 guineas in 1965 is £2,800; and £200 in 1967 is £2,430 (equivalents rounded to the nearest £10).  [Source: http://eh.net/hmit/ppowerbp/]
 
So in fact, the £2,000 currently on offer is not so far away from the historic mean as one might at first think.  In 1980, as you point out, the prize money rocketed to £2,000, which according to my calculator equates to about £5,740 in today's money (as opposed to the £12K you suggest), but the point is that, in context, it can be seen that it was grossly out of proportion to what had gone before.  All that has happened over the past 25 years is that the prize money has been allowed to settle back down to something close to the historic mean after a few bonanza years.
 
One big difference between now and then is that in the 'good old days'  the contest would have been played to a hall packed with an audience made up largely of the general public, who would have paid for their seats and contributed to the local economy, making the event a commercial success.  Nowadays, as your esteemed columns often point out, major contests are played out to a sparse audience from which the general public are largely absent.  This is unappealing to sponsors, and the reduced box office takings and peripheral sales mean there is less money in the pot available for prizes.  Under the circumstances, I am amazed that the current prize money is as high as it is. 
 
So, if bands want higher prize money, maybe they need to think about how to get bums on seats.
 
Jim Yelland
Hinckley

4BR Reply:
Thanks for the interesting opinion as always Jim, but using the Retail Price Index as a measure is a bit of a red herring. Remember Gordon Brown and the 33p pension increase? The RPI does not reflect the true value of money over time - something the pensioners found out to their cost when Mrs Thatcher stooped linking their pensions to inflation. It is the relative worth in comparison to inflation that really gives a true picture and that is what we used with money losing very nearly half its real value every ten years.  

Less celebrity more playing please!

Having just heard about the latest CD release to help Brass Band Aid I noticed that it had been recently reviewed and thought I would click on it and read what you guys thought of it.  Now having read through it and not actually heard the CD my initial reaction was one of annoyance.

Other than a track listing there was little or no mention of the actual content on the disc and more on the crazy lives of celebrities.  Surely a review has to be slightly informative!!  Those who contributed must surely be asking what you thought of their works or playing rather than the merits of fund-raising.
 
Adam Moore
Belfast

4BR Reply:
Thanks Adam. The purpose of the Brass Band Aid CD is to raise funds for their charitable work and as such that is how it should be looked at in our opinion - the performances and the items are secondary to that. Sometimes the bigger picture needs to be looked at first rather than just the details of who played what and how.

Sadness at death of Leighton Rich

Just want to express my sadness at learning of Leighton's death. He was a great man whose influence on youth music was immense. I played in HYCB under John Knight but had the privilege to play under Leighton at HYCB reunion concerts and Christmas Eve carols at the Butter cross Winchester.

Such a sad loss to Youth Music – my thoughts are with his family this evening.

Lesley Lewis.

Eye openers on the money front

What an eye opener your two articles on money in banding have been.

It just goes to show that if bands think contesting is that important to them then they should think again as the prize money on offer certainly isn't enough to run a band on for a year, even if they won all top 10 contests in the UK.

As for the Nationals, your report just goes to show what we have known for a long time about the contest – a great means of making a profit without giving something back to the bands who compete.

Well done 4BR, lets hope you continue your investigative journalism.

Peter Collins
Warrington

Disgrace of Nationals prize money

Prize money at the National Championships has been a disgrace for more years than I care to remember.

1980 was the last time that any real increase was given to the winners and ever since nothing has been doe to put pressure on the organisers, whoever they may be to rectify the situation. I understand Besson are backing this year's event with sponsorship, so will that mean that finally some extra prize money will be on offer? I think not.

The time has come to sort out this out, or the bands should really consider boycotting the contest until some real money is put on the table to reward their efforts.

Dr Philip Charles
Tonbridge

Entertaining - not!

I read a really entertaining letter just now. What a thoroughly entertaining chap that Mr James McFadyen seems to be!

He sounds very entertaining and  I can't wait to be entertained by hearing some of his compositions being played at an extremely moving, sorry, entertaining concert by a lacklustre or preferably an entertaining band, in the near future.

Allan Morrison.

Age does not wither them...

How would you like if you were told you couldn't join a band or participate because you were under 25? Or, how would you like it if you were asked to leave a band or be excluded because you had reached the age of 46?
 
I can understand age restriction on young musicians who enter a competition for either experience, fame or remuneration, but they are measured by simply how good technically and musically they are by a certain age, and this can be done.
 
Can composition be done like this, or perhaps I should say should it be done? Does age matter, does it sound right?  Would you wow any more or less on a piece of music knowing it was composed by 15 year old or a 35 year old? Only if the music is good, and that is subjective to whether you like it or not. 
 
OK, lets look at this from an odd angle (after all, I am odd) as a composer over the age of 35! For example I might have only started composing at 26, so my years composing so far is only 9. Does this mean you get new and exciting as this is only possible from a young pen? Most composers only really get going around 22 to 27 (apart from Mozart at 4), in which case their experience is then only 11 years or so. Does this mean new and exciting with a dash of maturity? 
 
Why do you want to hold a competition to those who might have a limited compositional experience by making the age limit of 35? Composition is, like good wine , it  is only known to mature with age. Brahms wrote his 1st Symphony at 40  and he then entered it into a Swiss composition competition, but his work was excluded and he was branded a cheat!  
 
How about those who are 70 or 80 and been composing for say 43/55 years but never written a piece for brass band, think about what you might be missing. I think that would be either wow, or ouch! Or, could you tell the difference between a score composed by a 34 year old and a 56 year old?
 
I don't think the Swiss are helping the movement as much as they could. I am right? Do I care? Had I been able to enter I would have undoubtedly named the piece; Cuckoo-Cuckoo BANG BANG! Nil poin! 
 
Phil Lawrence

An observation and a question
 
This is an observation and a question.  In the media, public voting has become one of the most popular things.  Whether it be celebrities (Championship Section?) or the person in the street, the fickle general public love it. 

"Strictly Come Dancing", "X Factor", the recent "How do you solve a problem like Maria", and countless other non musical/artistic series.  In the case of the musical/artistic ones, you have a panel of experts (adjudicators?) giving their opinion, but the final vote is a public one.
 
I wonder what it would be like if, in a brass band contest,  the audience could pay for the priviledge of voting themselves.  Would it mean 1. Bigger audiences 2. Better prizes and 3. The adjudicator becoming the advisor and the audience becoming the decision maker.
 
Just a thought.
 
Tim Paton

Sad loss
 
What a sad loss to our band movement has been created by the death of Tony Hadfield.

My deepest sympathy goes out to his family, especially Dennis and Peter, two great examples of Tony's wonderful imput to our movement.  Many's the time up in Keswick School when the Cumbrian Youth Band were practising Tony and I have marvelled at the quality of players like Dennis, Peter, Ian Porthouse, Helen Quayle, Lorraine Firth, Peter Younghusband, Colin Hoodless and many, many more.

I will always remember Tony's happy and enthusiastic outlook on Cumbrian banding.

Thanks Tony, I'm honoured to have been your friend.

Richard Evans

The judge gets it right

I have played in or conducted bands over the last 30 years and there is only one thing that has been consistent. That is bandsmen saying......... 'We were robbed'!.  The only bands that agree with the results are those in the prizes. I believe that is a normal human reaction, but lets not get on the 'officials cheat' or 'they are incompetent' bandwagon, just because you dont agree with the result.
 
I know bands put in many hours preparing for the 12 minute performance, so disappointment is bound to ensue.  However, music is an Art.  That means that it is open to interpretation, mine and yours will be different. So if I adjudicated, the results would be different than if you adjudicated.
 
The one thing I would defend though is the integrity of the adjudicators.  Yes, they put you 10th when you believe you should be 2nd, but I am big enough to accept that their interpretation is final. I accept their decision and move on to the next rehearsal, concert or contest.  In the big scheme of things does it matter where you are placed as long as you have tried your best and enjoy your banding?
 
John Maines adjudicated at the Fleetwood contest last weekend. He is an 'experienced adjudicator'. We came third. I thought his comment were fair and a good pointer as to where I need to concentrate my efforts to improve the band.   Congratulations to Pemberton 'B' who in Johns opinion were the best band on the day. So, the whole point of my opinion is, they were the best band.
 
David Mort
M.D. Rivington & Adlington

32 years of the same old faces

I read with interest the recent comments on adjudicators. I am now in my 32nd of banding and I am fed up of seeing the same old faces adjudicating at major contests. We all seem to agree that the future of banding lies with young people becoming involved, so what will happen in 10 years time?

I have recently gone from a Championship Section band to 4th Section, because I believe in giving the young a chance to conduct and adjudicate, and was dismayed to find that when a new face appears on the scene ie, David Lancaster - he just gets criticised. 

It is a medical fact that as we age the senses deteriorate - some of the results at recent contests confirm this.

Stuart Haigh

Staying in the bar

I can't believe that lower section bands have been criticised for remaining in the bar at Harrogate instead of listening to other bands. I myself played in the third section and was astounded to find that players had to pay to get into the hall if they wanted to hear their fellow bands play!

We were actually issued with players tickets which were a waste of money as our bands tickets were not even looked at backstage! What was the point of paying to get them printed if they weren't for backstage and they weren't for getting into the hall?

I was one of those bandspersons propping up the bar as I was not going to pay to get in when so much money had been wasted printing tickets that were not actually of any use at all!

Perhaps its time we found a hall more fitting for the finals! (perhaps one that more pleasant to play in!)

Louise Butterworth

Tony Hadfield remembered
 
I was one of many people that could attend Tony's funeral on Friday.  It was humbling to see so many people that in some way were connected by this one person.

My own connection goes back some years, now.  I went through school with his eldest son, Dennis as well as our early banding ‘career'.  I can only echo Steve Tighe's comments about how supportive Tony was to his lads - indeed to all the youngsters (as we were then!) that played in the bands that he was involved with; Workington Town, Flimby Saxhorn and Cumbria Youth were the main ones.

If it hadn't been for Tony ferrying me and his lads (as well as instruments, music stands, boxes full of music, uniforms etc ad infinitum!) all around the country in that huge green tank of a car he had, I wouldn't still be part of the social structure/movement/culture that we know and love as banding.  He and his family welcomed me in as one of their own, with encouragement, humour and suitable ‘down to earth' advice when needed.

I'm sure that these same qualities were taken to the other bands that his sons became involved with, as they followed their paths out of Cumbria .  As I say, it was humbling to see so many people that in some way were connected by this one person.  They were only the people that could make it.  If everyone that knew, respected and loved him had been able to attend, it would have been standing room only!

Through banding I have met many wonderful people.  Tony shall always be one of them.
 
Colin H Hoodless

World rankings?

Why do you call world ranking world ranking? Should it not be called national ranking?

First place at major contest in uk results much better valueated than outside uk (500 points to 25 points). Does that mean that the uk bands play 20 times better than bands outside uk? If so, congratulations to your outstanding bands.

Jachen Schleich

Tony Hadfield
 
Can I be one voice amongst many who I have no doubt will mourn the passing of Tony Hadfield. Tony supported very proudly both his son's Dennis and Peter during their musical development and was a shining example to those parents whom were quite frankly, "not that interested" in their own children's musical accomplishments.
 
Both Tony and Peter will be bereft by his passing, and may I take this opportunity to say a very "FOND" farewell to him. Long may his example be remembered and long may those Cumbrians amongst us, who were around during that special period of music and youth development in the county remember such people.
 
Tony takes with him a rare mixture of humility, passion and complete and utter belief and pride in his sons! His own humble beginnings, did not in any way stop him from encouraging his children to reach for their dreams. (Dennis became Head of Brass at Stockport and Peter a PHD!) Such people are rare in life, but on their passing they leave an unbelievable chasm in all our lives! We just don't realise it until they are gone! May his example shine on and be an inspiration to us all.
 
Sadly I won't be at his funeral, due to recovering from surgery! However, my thoughts will be with his family on Friday.
 
RESURGAM!
 
Stephen Tighe 

Get well soon!
 
I was shocked when watching the BBC 6 O'clock the story of a British couple being trapped for three days after crashing their car over a ravine in an accident in a remote part of New Zealand .Luckily they appear to be recovering well.
 
Marion Hounsome was touring with her mother and I soon realised it was the same Marion who played first horn with my band some twenty years ago whilst studying at B ournemouth University. She was a valued member of the band and great fun.
 
If anyone in the Kettering area knows Marion (don't know if she still plays)please pass on my best wishes on behalf of the band and her old chums in the Bournemouth/Poole area.
 
Steve Rowland
Bournemouth Concert Brass.

4BR Reply:
We are sure there are many people who will be glad to hear that both are well after what seemed to be something of an ordeal.

A bit more care please
 
I would please ask Mr McFadyen to stop and think about his comments a little more carefully. I myself produce arrangements of various quality (if he can shamelessly plug so can I!), and use Sibelius as a fine tool to save time writing out parts.

It also means that when writing Vocal charts of whatever genre I can transpose and adapt to specific range and needs as necessary. Perhaps there is a little envy on his part that others manage to get their arrangements played and published?

Andrew Austin

Harrogate concern

I am a little concerned about comments made about the Third Section results at Harrogate.

The inference made is that the judges were somehow not doing their job correctly, or were totally corrupt. If I were one of the judges I would now be contacting a first class solicitor, and in our present climate of compensation, would be suing anyone who had the temerity to question my integrity.

There may be questions about the presentation and announcements regarding the Third Section Competition, but anyone trying to undermine the integrity of the judges should be made liable to the law of the land. You cannot castigate a person without any evidence whatever.

Criticising the decisions of an adjudicator is normal, because everyone does it at every contest, and long may it continue, but to insinuate that two judges were swayed, because of an announcement after the contest, and possibly, as a result, changed their adjudication is an attack on their integrity, and if I were one of the adjudicators I would be suing one of your contributors.

Adjudicators should not to be pilloried by frustrated third-rate conductors.

Dai Francis
West Mercia Constabulary

Dis-service to Major Parkes
 
I realise that the latest contribution from Phil Lawrence was headed "The final word" but I am concerned that it contains a potential dis-service towards Peter Parkes. 

Phil says: "Did he do any more arrangements then? If not, I wonder why?"  A quick glance at various discographies will immediately reveal that "the major" has produced many fine arrangements over the years, notably several overtures (including a number by Rossini) and a whole series of Sousa marches, as well as numerous other varied concert items.

Regarding the particular issue of "The Perfect Fool" I would simply make the point that it is one thing to produce a piece of music as a one-off, for a concert or a recording, but quite another if it is to be subjected to the intensive study and dissection involved in a contest setting.  Having been involved in several such concerts and recordings over the years I have known discussions over notes to take place in the studio, even between the takes on occasion, with the final result being perfectly adequate for its purpose.

This, however, is definitely not acceptable in the context of a band contest, and should have been foreseen and pre-empted: maybe the panel should have indicated that they would like to use the work, but only once a definitive set had been produced.

Peter M. Bale

Don't give up becoming a conductor of note
 
In reply to Carol Caton, the MD of Friendly Band (Sowerby Bridge can I suggest she does what a few up and coming conductors have done in the past?

When I first started out conducting very few people would give direct conducting lessons, indeed Elgar Howarth refused, saying that conducting is an art form that develops and is not actually taught (or words to that effect). The band studies courses at colleges these days do have conducting elements but I am sure that the tutors etc. will be the first to tell you that it's not just about stick technique.

I, along with others, used to invite well known (and well respected) conductors to take my band for the odd rehearsal when leading up to a contest or major concert. This served two purposes, it would give the band a fresh approach and I could 'pick the conductors brains' and gain valuable tips from them. There is no substitute for experience. People like Dave King, Garry Cutt, Nick Childs and his brother Robert have all had their mentors. Now they are other peoples mentor! The experience I (and the band) gained from working with people like James Scott, Peter Parkes, Walter Hargreaves, Roy Newsome and Richard Evans (apologies to the ones I've missed!) is invaluable. 

So don't despair Carol talk to the people who you admire, I am sure they will only be too pleased to help. Invite them to conduct your band and watch and learn, they will be the best lessons you will ever have.

John Maines
Stockport

Nothing wrong with a few drinks

Why are bandsmen and women pilloried for enjoying a few drinks at contests?

The 4BR retrospective of the Lower Section Finals in Harrogate and, apparently, comments from the results' stage urged bandsmen to spend less time in search of a drink and more time in the hall listening to bands.

We all know how hard bands work to get to any contest, let alone the National Finals, so surely players should be allowed to enjoy the day, especially having played, to relax with friends and colleagues over a few post-contest drinks? The contest bar is also the unscheduled meeting place for friends and colleagues from other bands; contesting is a social event, too, to try and coerce players into the hall using some sort of guilt trip, i.e. shame on you for not listening, seems to be tackling the issue (if it is an issue) of low audience figures from the wrong perspective.

Surely the problem is with the insularity of the movement? Set test piece brass band contests appeal almost exclusively to banders and participants in the particular contest concerned, maybe we should just accept this and move on, or else do something to encourage more non-participating bandspeople to turn up and support the event: people like me, in fact, who wasn't playing at the event and didn't attend either.

I've set myself up here: bandsmen like me should be pilloried for not supporting the event, not the competitors ... d'oh! (This pre-supposes, of course, that there's no way of enticing the general public to such events ...)

Bandsmen and women do enough simply to get on to the contest stage and play at all, we all know what it's like, lets not have a go at them over low audience figures as well, let them enjoy their beers and let's tackle the issue from a different perspective.
Oh yes, and whatever the solution, asking competitors to pay for their own tickets isn't the answer.

David Elliot-Smith.
p.s. does anyone possess a James McFadyen Comments' Page mute, with anti-pretension setting?

Oh dear Mr McFadyen
 
Why is it that Mr McFadyen dislikes the word entertaining with such venom?

Surely the art of a putting a concert program together is dependent on understanding your audience.
As in any presentation of material to a group of people, understanding and managing the expectation of the audience is what makes the difference between success and failure.

The content of a concert to the local branch of pensioners link in the local community centre is vastly different to a concert to season ticketholders at the Bridgewater Hall. To be entertained is to have ones expectations met by the performing artists.  This is regardless of the musical ability of the perfomers.
I am sure that Mr McFadyen's music will have its place on a concert program somewhere sometime as will the "Cheesy" pop songs he refers to.

As for his quest to rid the brass band world of "massed produced money making crap" .... and replace it with music to inspire ... what a load of bobbins. I have heard quite a bit of "Inspirational Crap" but it is only so in my opinion. I am sure the composers didn't think of it that way when they created it.

To pass negative comments on the creative or inspiring nature of compositions or arrangements published with the help of Sibelius is very generalistic in nature. The use of technology to translate the creative thoughts of the composer/arranger into a real score with minimum of effort has to be seen as positive. I wonder if Mr McFadyen uses an electric kettle and a tea bag to make his brew while cutting his quill and filling his ink pot?
Come on James, you are entitled to your opinion, but to be so derogatory in your comments is offensive to many a brass band enthusiast that actually don't mind being entertained by "money making crap" in the right context.

One take away from this thread is "understand your audience" not only in program creation but also in what comments you post and where you post them.

Tony Hodgetts

Creativity or cheating?

Having listened to almost every band at both the Open and the Lower Section Finals, I was left amazed at the changes many MDs had made to the band parts and who played them.  Even the Open Champions themselves had solos changed round between players!

It's fruitless to get into the issue of whether or not this or that is "cheating", but it really is time to ask, what are we testing in competition - the bandsmen's ability to play their parts or the "creativity" of the MD?
Equally, how far is permissible to go?

If the third cornet player can't get the notes in, surely no one would object to the 4th man playing it. Similarly, if the solo cornet part is too high, why not give it to the sop?  If that's the case, and the sop player can't get his notes, why not just transpose the movement down a third? A bit of transposition could be used to get rid of those troublesome key signatures too!

A composer writes music to best apply the tonal qualities of the brass band, and in competition, as a test of the players.  Surely, therefore, contests should be run on a truly level playing field.  I know it's easy to raise problems so here's a potential solution for next years round of contests. 

Each band plays from a set of unmarked parts which remain on the stage throughout the contest, and no part swapping is allowed.  That would put an end to the cellotape and extra pages, and at least allow the adjudicator to compare like with like.

Chris Gent

Sweatshop Arranger Bites Back!!
 
Oh dear, Mr McFadyen strikes again. Wouldn't it be easier just to put an advertisement on the website instead of using psycho babble and riding roughshod over us hard working arranger's. If I may take you to task on a few of your sweeping statements: 
 
What is wrong with turning up at your office, firing up the computer and starting Sibelius? I don't see your problem. Using Sibelius will no more make you a composer/arranger (of quality) than using a dictionary will make you a best selling author. It takes talent, patience, knowledge, training, passion and I have yet to see any of these in Sibelius's keyboard shortcuts!

Sibelius is a fantastic tool but it does not compose and arrange for me. Is using computers cheating in some way to you? If so then were Beethoven, Prokofiev and Copland (to name but three) cheating when they wrote at the piano? I don't think so. There is on Sibelius an arrange function within the programme but I can't see any real arranger using it and then publishing the results, unless it is there own company. I hope not!
 
I imagine that you are the Adventurous Unknown and that I am one of the arrangers with no artistic agenda. You may or may not like my composing and arranging but each and every piece I do contains the same amount of passion and skill. I never arrange from piano copies, I listen to the original albeit a song or a film theme and take the music down accurately onto manuscript, then and only then do I proceed to the full score (in Sibelius of course). Then it is on to the publisher for their comments and observations. Unfortunately when you are your own publisher you do not have the feedback and may think what you do is fine, this can be very dangerous and conceited. 
 
Entertainment and cheese – It seems to me that all light music is labelled cheese these days so I think the term has no value whatsoever. Believe it or not James we are in the entertainment industry so have to plan our programmes to suit the audience and occasion. Every piece cannot be a bright and burning light of passion otherwise we would all go home exhausted just as a composer will have several themes in a piece of music, not all of them will be of the same importance. 
 
Whilst you may not like Frank Bernaert's arrangements countless brass and wind bands do and would be in a worse state without them. The man knows his market and tailors his arrangements to this. So enough of the Bernaert's bashing!
 
Finally James, enough of the tub thumping and bravado, why not let your music do the talking. Get it out there to bands to play and one day you may make it, I am still trying!!
 
Darrol Barry

Cheesy old crap
 
I have recently read the comments of James McFadyen with regards to the (As he puts it) cheesy-crap that is published for brass bands. Yes in a lot of instances the arrangements are a load of old tat but the audiences do enjoy it and at the end of the day we are there to keep the fee paying public happy and entertained.

In many ways music should come from the heart and move the audience and musicians alike with the ambient tones written within the music, but if you based a whole programme on that type of music the audience figures for both concerts and entertainment contests would surely drop. The audience need to be taken on a musical rollercoaster of emotions, from the shock and amazement of a big opener to the tender emotions of a slow quiet meditive piece to the rhythmic sounds of a carnival atmosphere through to the Finale of a big curtain closer.

With regards to the likes of Obrasso and Bernaerts Music publishers unless you have first hand knowledge of them going into work and arranging the music on a 9 to 5 basis the I think you need to take a step back and think about what you imply as with the above mentioned companies a lot of our well known composers and arrangers are releasing their music through them and I am sure they would not appreciate you accusing them of knocking out arrangements in an "On Demand" basis for the sole purpose of money making

To end all I will say is that the words "Entertaining or Entertainment should stand strongly in the world of Brass Banding otherwise the small but emphusiastic following we have will surely die out.

Martin Musto
Gloucestershire

And what is wrong with 4th Section bands then..

I refer to the recent article by James McFayden in which the comments: "I'm sorry, but this is not how you go about putting a concert programme together unless you are a very low 4th section band or junior band."  " ….load up Sibelius (AKA "How-make-money-doing-nothing" Software)" are included.  

Why is it OK for very low 4th section and junior bands to programme in this way?  Sibelius is very useful for GCSE and A level work.

N. Garman 

Spectrophotofluorometrically speaking

I have a question, I'm afraid, about the rankings. I was a little surprised to see that our points score after our triumphant 16th at the Open had dropped.

Obviously, I realise Desford's 3rd place rocketed them up the table so dropping a place was inevitable. However, having read how the ranking system works (yes, I am that sad, though not as tragic as one of our tuba-players who worked out his own prediction prior to your publication) I can't work out why we have less points.

It says that last years points on that day are worth half of the previous years amount. We weren't at the Open the year before, so had no ranking points on that day to lose. My understanding of this is that the worst it could be would be no change. Or is it that all previous points are halved as well? Also curious to know how many points 16th place is worth, but probably best not to ask...

Good of Phil Lawrence to use antidisestablishmentarianism in the comments page. However, at 28 letters it is behind floccinaucinihilipilification (29 letters). Other words (mainly technical ones) recorded in the complete Oxford English Dictionary include: hepaticocholangiogastrostomy (28 letters),
spectrophotofluorometrically (28 letters), pseudopseudohypoparathyroidism (30 letters).

Most of the words which are given as 'the longest word' are merely inventions, and when they occur it is almost always as examples of long words, rather than as genuine examples of use. For example, the medieval Latin word honorificabilitudinitas (honourableness) was listed by some old dictionaries in the English form honorificabilitudinity (22 letters), but it has never really been in use. The longest word currently listed in Oxford dictionaries is rather of this kind: it is the supposed lung-disease pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis (45 letters).

In Voltaire's Candide, Pangloss is supposed to have given lectures on metaphysico-theologo-cosmonigology (34 letters). In Thomas Love Peacock's satirical novel Headlong Hall (1816) there appear two high-flown nonce words (one-off coinages) that describe the human body by stringing together adjectives describing its various tissues. The first is based on Greek words, and the second on the Latin equivalents; they are osteosarchaematosplanchnochondroneuromuelous (44 letters) and osseocarnisanguineoviscericartilaginonervomedullary (51 letters), which translate roughly as 'of bone, flesh, blood, organs, gristle, nerve, and marrow'.

Some editions of the Guinness Book of Records mention praetertranssubstantiationalistically (37 letters), used in Mark McShane's Untimely Ripped (1963), and aequeosalinocalcalinoceraceoaluminosocupreovitriolic (52 letters), attributed to Dr Edward Strother (1675-1737).

This kind of verbal game originates, so far as records attest, with the ancient Greek comic playwright Aristophanes, inventor of Cloud-Cuckoo-Land (Nephelokokkygia).  The formal names of chemical compounds are almost unlimited in length (for example, aminoheptafluorocyclotetraphosphonitrile, 40 letters), but longer ones tend to be sprinkled with numerals, Roman and Greek letters, and other arcane symbols. Dictionary writers tend to regard such names as 'verbal formulae', rather than as English words.
Hope that clears things up...

My girlfriend has just packed her bags, can't think why...

Jon Kitchen.
Aveley & Newham Band.

Mr Lawrence has the final word 

To "Christe": Yes, that was a real honest to good old typo Christie, you got me dead in the water boy, God you're good! Re: the date: 1979. My left digit got to the 9 before the right got to the 7.Yes, this was a real blooper. 
 
And one other, I really did not know (ignorant me) that it was arranged by THE, Major Peter Parks himself, do you think I should have reserved my comments if I had known? A lot of mistakes can be made going to print by the publishers in the type setting or copying, but it is then up to the arranger to check for the bloopers, in some cases a hand written arrangement goes straight to print via photo copy & parts hand written, this would fall into the blame domain of the arranger alone. But the bloop measure should be shared by both parties!
 
Bad analogy here (I'm rather good at those in a vague way). We give respect those in high office/government when they make it there as we know the road they have taken, but when they punch people or sleep with their secretaries or turn up two sheets to the wind for a party conference, i.e Major Bloopers for them? Then what? So, if you screw up, carry that can man! I can, and do quite often. 
 
But you have to hand it to him (Major PP) big time though, he is one of the most influential brass band conductors of this (and last) century, the mans knowledge on brass band is galactic, and there he has my ultimate respect!  Did he do any more arrangements then? If not, I wonder why?

I take back the check-out bit at Homebase though as it's B&Q that employ the over 70's!

Phil Lawrence

How do I get professional help?

I am one of those conductors you describe in the lower section banding movement. I have been trying to get some professional help in the basics you describe for 2-3 years - where is it available?

I would gladly attend a course or bespoke conducting class if only I could find such a thing. I couldn't attend the Richard Evans course in Ripon a couple of months ago because of an engagement on the same day. I was going to do the Accrington & Rossendale College course but it was cancelled due to lack of funding. I applied to Ray Farr 2 years ago and was refused - don't think he wants lower section conductors.

Couldn't apply this year because of clashes of dates again! Any information would be very helpful.

Carol Caton
MD. Friendly Band (Sowerby Bridge).

4BR Reply:
All we can suggest Carol is that you try again, whilst if anyone out there can tell us more to help please let us know.

Not everythig is rubbish
 
Not everything Obrasso have done is rubbish. Whilst I recognise this is a matter for personal taste, I have enjoyed the "Classical Spectacular" series, the first of the movie discs and "World Famous Marches".

I recognise that some of the arrangements aren't great and sleeve notes are often poor but I have enjoyed hearing decent bands perform music (of any standard) to a high level. Obrasso is a business. If people didn't buy it, they wouldn't make any more. I think Naxos also came in for a lot of stick when they were first published but increasingly, are improving their reputation. 4BR should be reviewing all releases and selling them.

As one of the main journalists and shop of the brass band worlds, isn't that their job? Again I think it is a matter of personal taste (which no one has the right to criticise – some people liked Songs for B.L., not me I hasten to add) and again, if nobody bought the discs, 4BR would stop selling them, right?
 
Nicholas Garman

Grimethorpe miss a chance

I was fortunate to listen to Grimethorpe at Plymouth. (£16 a ticket against only £10 at Cardiff ! ). At Plymouth they were conducted by Chris Houlding and played almost the same programme as at Cardiff, but why oh why do we have to have yet another concert concluded by the playing of  "The Pines of Rome". I have lost count of the number of times I've heard this as the last piece over the past 10-15 years.

About 12 days before the Plymouth concert I emailed Grimethorpe via the contact button on their web site. I requested, more in hope than expectation, that they might play Philip Wilby's Vienna Nights at Plymouth. I had read all the glowing reports on 4BR and thought it would still be fresh with the band, so maybe they would play the piece for the benefit of band lovers in the South West who hadn't gone to the Open.

I was dismayed not to even get a reply to my email. I can understand it may not have been possible to grant my request for a number of reasons, but surely it would have been courteous to have replied to my email. There is no point in bands having a contact button on their web sites if they don't bother to reply. Or is the contact button only there for the commercial side of band - buying a CD or booking the band  for a concert ?

I do feel that this was a missed opportunity to present a brilliant new piece to a large audience (I estimate 900-1000), many of whom rarely get the opportunity to hear a band of Grimethorpe's quality. It is, in my opinion, a waste of time Philip Wilby composing/arranging a piece such as Vienna Nights if it is only ever going to be used as a test piece.

Am I only ever going to hear test pieces at contests or on CDs in future ?

Tony Knowles
Newton Abbot

Harrogate prices
 
After reading comments of Maria Green Lostock Hall Memorial Band I have some support and some disagreements about the complaints of Harrogate.  Firstly I do believe especially for the lower section finals which to be honest are never going to sell out tickets, I cannot see why bands men should be expected to pay full price for an entry ticket after all for a lot of the bands it has taken them hours of rehearsing and fund raising to get there. 

I do believe that there should be some discounted tickets i.e. half price on offer to the players of the bands that have qualified i.e. 28 tickets offered covering 25 player plus percussion and stick wagger but in reference to the comment (The two non players paid £12.50 to watch their own band!)  yes they have come to see mum and daughter play at the finals but they are not playing members of the band and asking them to pay for a ticket for the contest is not unreasonable especially as it is supposed to be putting money in to the running of the contests and benefits the brass band movement. 

I have been to may a contest as a player and a supported and as a supporter would expect to pay to hear the band if your supporters went to hear the band at a concert you would expect them to pay so what's the difference at a contest!
 
Colin Doran
BBb bass Pemberton Old Wigan JJB band

Expensive but worthwhile
 
Many thanks for your constructive observations of our performance in Harrogate last week. In reality, having listened to the Doyen recording, I feel that your comments were more accurate than those of the official adjudicators.

Personally, I felt that our performance merited a position just inside the top ten, but hey, that's how it goes, the guys in the tent have a difficult job, especially if the majority of the bands are of a similar standard, (I know, I've been in that position) so as bandsmen we have to accept the decisions and look forward to the next contest.

My only gripe of the weekend is the cost of going in to listen to the contest, in my band, I've got two or thee family groups, which, if they had gone in to listen to the bands would have cost one of these families in the region of £45, which added on to the trip as a whole, is quite a considerable sum, so please Ian Brownbill, please forgive those people who may have wanted to go in, but could'nt!

Never the less, it was a great experience, and even though we only came 19th, we wouldn't have missed it for the world.

Kerry Bowden
MD Cross Keys Silver Band

What has happened to the Gala Concert?
 
Could you help me with some information about the National Finals  -  Royal Albert Hall on 28th Oct. 2006.  I have visited the RAH a few times for this event and there has always been a great concert in the evening. Will there be no concert in the evening this year?  And what about the future years? If there is no Gala Concert in the evening , why is that so?

I am a dedicated brass player and a great fan of English Brass Bands , and I have already booked a flight for this, so I hope you will spend the time to send me an answer.

Flemming Hansen
Fredensvang 15
7600 Struer
Denmark

4BR Reply:
There is no Gala Concert this year Flemming although we do hear whispers on the grapevine that a concert at a different venue on the Saturday night may be looked at in future. The Albert Hall does take some filling and is very expensive and at present there doesn't seem to be too many bands who can fill it year in year out without people becoming a touch bored with the same line ups.

There is the Friday night concert at Regents Hall and we are sure thre is plenty to do around London in the night to keep you entertained after 20 bands in the afternoon.

A real critic!

Thank you very much for your comments about last Obrasso CD performed by Black Dyke!!!

Finally I can read on 4barsrest a real critic about those awful productions, which are a SHAME for brass music AND for the band doing that! You write: "You do wonder why Black Dyke agreed to do this second volume." I know that you have already the answer...MONEY of course...

You write: "Black Dyke are badly served by this release"... and further: "This is a series that should be stopped literally in its musical tracks before it goes any further and cheapens the name and reputation of the most famous brass band in the world".

YES, right, but Black Dyke is totally responsible for that. A great band has to refuse such propositions, even if the fee is good.  I could just propose you to stop now to do critics for Obrasso CD's, so you will not be a part of those vulgar commercial operations.

And I add that Black Dyke played some arrangements of that CD at their last concert in Switzerland in Luzern (organized by Obrasso of course) Can you imagine that? Would it be possible that Black Dyke play so bad and awful arrangements in England?

Daniel Zumbrunnen
Switzerland

Saving Black Dyke's reputation

Well done 4BR for highlighting the poor quality of Black Dyke's ‘Greatest Movie Hits – Volume 2'. I wonder why they let themselves do such rubbish.

The pieces are completely non descript and even with Dyke trying their hardest to give them a sheen of class not even they can make them sound any better. Obrasso have been getting away with this now for far too long – no sleeve notes, poor production values and churning out another CD much the same as this again under a different band and slightly different name.

Well done for highlighting a rip off. Black Dyke should get out now before it does their reputation any more damage.

Peter Hughes
Stamford

Excellent entertainment - all for 10 quid too

4BR was a bit quick with the concert review of Grimethorpe's appearance at Cardiff last night – haven't you got anything better to do on a Saturday night or were you in the vicinity after supporting your football team!

Anyway, must agree with you about the playing. Excellent entertainment, top class soloists, great band sound, items just up the street for the type of audience in the hall and Farnk Renton an excellent host.

Not a bad way to spend 10 quid in fact.

Simon Johnstone
Cardiff

Cheesy is Entertaining! – Is it, really!?

I wish to delve into a subject that I have talked about before but this time I'm primarily aiming this to conductors.

General mob-mentality band conductors love to say, "The crowd love the cheesy pop songs, it's entertaining". The word "entertaining" really roils me up. Not only is it miss-used it is quite subjective.

Everyone has their own idea on what is "entertaining" and what is fine for me may not for the person next to me. There is nothing more uncomfortable than watching a band play a cheesy pop arrangement because they think the crowd will love it. I'm sorry, but this is not how you go about putting a concert programme together unless you are a very low 4th section band or junior band.

Instead of trying to be "entertaining" (and I do mean try, but you will fail miserably) why don't you try to "move people" that's what music is all about. Play for yourselves and sink you're whole emotion into it and let the audience be drawn into the performance.

Please don't use the word "entertaining" ever again. Music is about putting on a good show that can enlighten people and let them be drawn into the world you have created. This might seem a bit corny, but this is the essence of music, if you feel embarrassed to say these kinds of statements in the bandroom then you shouldn't be standing in front of a band.

Now, admittedly, the vast array of cheesy-crap (shorthand, you understand) is a bit overwhelming and perhaps over-shadows all the truly great repertoire, but speak to one another, swap ideas or even commission an ADVENTEROUS composer (not necessarily a known!!) and work together to write a ‘concept piece' that can be premiered and broadcast.

Check out small publishers too. At Devilish Publishing, I like to believe we have a fine selection of repertoire with the purpose of ‘moving people'. This may not be the ethos of Obrasso or Bernaerts Music, but they are commercial giants who, lets face it have little or no artistic agenda. Some of the music is even arranged in-house at the company premises. The ‘arrangers' go in to work and sit at their desk at 9:00am, load up Sibelius (AKA "How-make-money-doing-nothing" Software) and proceed to make the arrangement. Not exactly creative or inspiring is it?

Of course, I'm not saying you shouldn't play well known songs from the charts, but select only the best arrangements and try out an unknown as they can be more daring and unique, which is what you want from you're band. Compared to the Pop Industry, companies like Stiff Records and people like John Peel made sure that art came first, acting on a fuel for creating something truly great and their hard work paid off big time.

There's a lot to take on board here but I for one am still on this quest to rid the Brass Band world of the mass-produced money-making crap (sorry but it is). The only people who can really make a difference are you, the bands! Remember the keyword – "Entertaining" don't use it, it has no place in an industry of inspiration. To "Move people" is inspirational.

As Jack Black say's in the film Rock School, "Stick it to the Man" and man, you better believe how much the Brass Band world needs to do this!

James McFadyen
Composer and Arranger

The real cost of listening in Harrogate

Having qualified for the 4th section finals at Harrogate this year, we traversed the Pennines, eager to enjoy a day of brass banding. However on our arrival at the Conference Centre (beautiful though it is) we were told that there was no free admission ticket for bandsmen. Having brought along a husband and son to support Mum and daughter, our family admission would have cost £25. The two non players paid £12.50 to watch their own band! 

Whilst I am aware that the Brass Band Association probably have little control over this, it was annoying to have the camp compere when giving the results, suggest that players 'have one less beer and support their fellow bandsmen'. With these disgraceful charges, this is just not going to happen. It would have been lovely to allow keen 9 and 11 year old musicians the opportunity to listen to other bands but under the circumstances, a 'Leyland' band CD and a trip to McDonalds was unfortunately a cheaper option.

We had a blast in Harrogate and I hope we qualify again soon. But next time we won't be expecting to hear any Brass Band music.

Maria Green
Lostock Hall Memorial Band

How to get more bandsmen into to listen - don't charge them
 
Just listened to your podcast fro the weekend and I said the same thing when I heard Mr Brownbill say, "We need more people (Band members) in hear listing to other bands than in the pub."

Then the venue should not charge band members to go and listen to other bands. I play percussion for Thundersley Brass under our MD Keith Schroeter, and had a good weekend.
 
Thanks for your time and keep up the good work on the website.

Daniel Floyd

Christmas is coming

Christmas music is being spoken about, and I always get a little grumpy about something, (I'm allowed to - I'm 55).

In 1975, Greg Lake released a Christmas Single called "I Believe in Father Christmas", which got to no.2 in the charts. Now don't get me wrong, a fabulous song, which, when I was teaching, I used to have my school choir singing, with one of my trumpet players playing the clever quote from Prokofiev's "Lt Kiji" suite, namely "Troika".

This is the problem. Ever since then, "Troika" has become a Christmas tune. A lovely little piece, which has now been denigrated to a couple of months of the year.

Tim Paton
Composer

Spell checker

Oops! (or is that Ooops, or oops, or Oopps?). Dear me what a quandary, or is that quandrie? I shall get my (not so fantastic) Outlook spell check to see, now, just hang on a tick whilst I circumnavigate the tool bar, te-hee (or is that t' he, or tee heee), no, it's quandary, defo, or is that deffo? I know lets not be vague (echo) vague, vague!

Yes, as I thought, due to some decompartmentalisation (find that in your spell-check) problems within the spell check, vague still comes up as vague, and sometimes, when one is in the middle of several articles, scoring a film, arranging new pieces for brass band, going to Tescos doing the school run and saving the World from duff brass band music you don't always pick up on an error from the PC.

One reads through a lightening article to see how it bounces, you spell check it (via Outlook, now a dirty word), look at the large words again (like antidisestablishmentarianism) and send it off.

Lets not be vague about our mistakes, lets get it in context, especially the real important points, as in the ones you have been able to find, erm ,not.

Of course, read not into the information/debate launched or the comments I made, but do carry on with picking those nits, we need the blandly suited PC article police out there to contribute in such a vague positive way.

Phil Lawrence

4BR REPLY:
This one has now closed folks. No more please.

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