Comments ~ 2005: July

Time for a Swiss role at the Open; Youth cheating; the World Championships; Same old Dyke; Butlins; ABBA and the BFBB, and even a great but corny joke about Sir Clive Woodward as we come to the end of a wet July!

Apologies to some of our readers who have sent in comments in the past few days. We have had problems with our e mails and have lost a few of them in the past week. If you have sent something to us, but it does not appear, please send them again and we wil put them on the site as soon as we can.

Cheating in youth banding - not in Cornwall we don't!

I have just found the comments on cheating in youth bands. Can I just say from the outset that my son is involved with the Mount Charles Youth Band and I can definitely say that this does not happen with us.

Recently we entered the Music for Youth contest open section hoping that some of our older players could enter (under 21).  As it happened a few weeks before the contest we found out that one member had just turned the age limit and he duly withdrew.

We included one player who did not appear at the Nationals and who in fact was 19 in January, so therefore well within the age limit, so therefore we entered an upper age limit for one player. Our youth band ranges from 8 - 19 with very little help and support from outside the band. I do not understand what anyone gains from cheating.

Going back to this debate, my wife recently took over the responsibility in our band of re - registering our youth band with the South West Association, only to be told that with being in keeping with the rest of the band world it will cease.

Up till this year all youth bands in this area were registered with the association. This was in the form of a card which I believe, band name and date of birth. This would be presented at all contests. We are at the time made this same statement to ourselves that this would leave the gates open for bands to cheat. i.e. over age and playing for more than one band.

We will not I hope go down this road, our old cards are still with us and we would willingly let anyone inspect them. This is my own opinion as a parent .We have followed our son to many contests since he joined the band and have enjoyed them all.

We encourage him to go and play to the best of his ability and to enjoy the occasion. Winning a contest is a bonus. We are very proud of this fine band and who do so with limited finances and vast distances to travel.
Banding doesn't  come cheap.

Steve Blight

World Championships

Thanks for the coverage of the World Championships. However, was this really a World Championships fit to carry the name? Looking at the line up of the bands before the event I thought not, but after going to the contest I have changed my mind and feel that they were worthy of the title.

The winners and runners up in particular would have graced any contest against the very best bands in the world, whilst both the New Zealanders and Reg Vardy produced performances of the highest calibre and were excellent representatives for their countries.

Perhaps the next time, some of the very best bands cold attend and finally put to rest any lingering doubts about the contest. It deserves it.

Nicholas Klien

Open invitation

With the Swiss band Treize Etoiles winning the inaugural World Championships in Kerkrade this year, wouldn't it be the right time now for the organisers of the British Open to finally invite a European band to compete at their event.

We have had Americans, Australians and New Zealanders. Why not a Swiss band? The time is surely now right.

Peter Bach
Switzerland

Clive Woodward – perfect to lead the brass band movement

Following up on the letter printed on your site about the man of hype and spin, Sir Clive Woodward.
The thought occurred to me after reading Bob Cavender's letter that Sir Clive would make the perfect new man to lead the banding movement.

He has just the right qualities; he knows nothing at all about brass bands, will spend millions of pounds on promoting us as being the best in the world, will pick players who are over the hill and will still sound as if he got it all right when it all goes wrong and we get stuffed.

The BFBB have been doing this for years, but even they are not in the same league as this guy.

As the Kiwis were quick to point out. When Sir Clive went to a fancy dress party after the recent series, he turned up as a pumpkin, hoping that when the clock struck 12, he would turn into a coach!

Steven Nicholls

Why is it always Black Dyke at the Gala Concert?

Why is it that Black Dyke that once again Black Dyke will head the Gala Concert at the Royal Albert Hall after the National Finals?

Cannot the organisers think of someone else? Dyke are a fine band, but there is only a certain number of times you can hear them before their brand of ‘entertainment' shows itself for what it is – staid and middle of the road.

'Baba Yaga' and the ‘Great Gate of Kiev', and music from their well worn 150th celebrations isn't all that ground breaking and ‘pushing back traditional brass band boundaries' as the organisers say is it?

This year there is the added bonus of the excellent Mnozil Brass, but in all honesty they are a ‘one trick' act that are funny and amusing for around 10 minutes, but become rather repetitive and tiresome thereafter.  To say they are back ‘by popular demand' is a bit rich – a sure fire way of hyping up style over substance.

It's a bit like saying that public executions are being brought back – by popular demand! It doesn't make them any better. You get the feeling that the term ‘money for old rope' could be an appropriate poster banner for this one.

P. Crawshay
Wigan

And who will head lining the Gala Concert?

I will be in London in October and will be attending the National Brass Band Championships. I am also interested in the Gala Concert and noticed on your website an advertisement for the British Bandsman that has an article on this event.
 
Could you in your 4barsrest news advise me what is happening at this years Gala Concert?
 
Brian Crowden

4BR Reply:
I think your answer can be found in the above rant Brian

Well done Butlins!

Can I say well done to Butlins for once again showing the way forward for brass band contesting. They are not afraid it seems to put their money where their mouths are and have stumped up over £22000 to back their deeds for the Mineworkers Championships.

At a time when contesting in general is struggling, Butlins (and Pontins for that matter) should be congratulated and more importantly, supported for what they are trying to do.

Yes, they are out to make a profit, but they also try to do so by putting on a festival weekend that caters not just for the bandsmen and women who actually perform on stage, but also for their families. I for one will be making the trip once more – and with over £6000 on offer to the winners of the top section, perhaps one or two of our leading bands may think about it too as well.

June Hadlington

ABBA and the BFBB - cut out the middle man

It was with interest that I read on 4BR that the Association of Brass Band Adjudicators were thinking of breaking from the BFBB in order to administer the ‘National Panel' of judges for the Regional and National contests.

I for one (and I am sure many others for that matter) didn't even know that the BFBB were involved in any way in doing this.

If ABBA wish now to deal direct with Regional Secretaries for the booking of judges at the Regional contests, the let them get on with it. Why are the BFBB involved anyway? They have nothing to do with the Regionals now – or is that not the case?

Brian Buckley seems to be a man with well thought out ideas, and as Malcolm Brownbill said, they do not want in any way to be involved with the choosing of judges for any contests. All in all it seems a pretty good idea therefore for them to deal with the matter direct with the people who wish to employ their services – just cut out the ‘middle man'.

Trevor Jones

ABBA - 66 members, but still the same old faces

Interesting to read that the Association of Brass Band Adjudicators has 66 members. How come then, we still get the same old familiar faces in the box at just about every major contest then?

L. Poulter

Where are all the rumours then?

Where are all the nice juicy rumours gone then 4BR?

I really enjoy reading the little tit bits from around the banding world and seeing if you get them right or not, but there seems to be nothing going on in the past few weeks.

Have the bands caught onto the fact that there could be mole in their midst in their bandrooms, or is it that your little moles are having a bit of a holiday?

Claire King

4BR Reply:
Our little burrowing friends have been having a bit of a rest. It is hard work picking up all those little rumours. Never fear though - Gwadden and his friends will be back hard at work as soon as possible.

Phil Green

Sad to hear that Phil Green has finally decided to hang up his boots at Fodens after more than a decade in the bass department with the band.

I have heard Phil play on both the contest and concert platform for many years now with the band, and he has been an exceptional performer both as a soloist and band player.

A real nice bloke, brilliant player and a true bandsman. Lets hope he isn't lost to the movement.

Peter Jenkins

Pro Rege - a real Second Division World Champions

It was nice to read the very positive comment on the performance of Brass Band Pro Rege A with their conductor Thijs Oud at the 2005 World Brass Band Championships in the Second Section. It is only a pity that the retrospective gives the idea that Pro Rege is a band that normally does not play in the second section and that they needed the help of players of a Champion Section band.

Pro Rege is a leading band for many years in the second division at the Dutch championships. In 2004 Pro Rege became Dutch Champion in this division and since then they are in the winning mood. In March 2005 they won a regional contest with 91.5 points and now they won the WMC title. All these wins are the result of hard work of the band in cooperation with their conductor Thijs Oud. We think it is better not to change a winning team.

This is why we regret that the reader of the retrospective is getting the idea that Pro Rege used several players of other bands. All members of Pro Rege that played during the WMC are at least one till 25 years playing with the band.

Jaap Ruisch
3rd cornet player and for more then 25 years member of Pro Rege

Death of Francis Evans

I have recently heard the news of the tragic death of Francis Evans, aged just 48.
 
Francis was the conductor of my first band, Harworth Colliery, one of my first teachers and one of the biggest influences on my playing career.

Always seemingly full of charm and confidence, I remember him standing in front of the band and telling us that he had joined to win prizes. He was a sore loser; playing anything from card games to rugby the man had to win, and when it came to banding he was worse. So when he told us we were going to win prizes, his character, leadership and demand for perfection meant that we were going to win prizes. He had unquestionable talent as a band trainer, always building round him a group of players with ambition and respect, and he spent time on warm-up exercises, sight-reading and transposition that any of the top bands in the country would benefit from.

It was having his guidance right from the start of my banding career that led me to demand the same high standards from my own playing. Outside of banding he was great company, and never too busy give me help and advice when I needed it.
 
His children have all turned into fantastic players and people; I keep seeing the Evans surname at the top of solo contest results. I hope they can remember Fran with fondness and be proud of a man who influenced so many people. My thoughts are with them.
 
Greg Perkin
Brighouse and Rastrick

Learning something from our colonial friends

Sounds like you pommies could still learn a thing or two from the colonies.

Down here in Oz, our Junior Bands have a strict age restriction on them of 19 years. All players must be under this age or they cannot play with the Youth Band.

The only time a player of over this age can play with the Youth Band in a contest is if they are borrowed from another Band. In this case, the senior Band for this Junior Band is considered another Band.

In all competitions, there are strictly enforced rules around the number of players on stage, player registrations and the number of borrowed players.

I'm very surprised that you guys haven't got these things all sown up on this one considering you've been in the bizz for longer than the rest of us. Hmmm
 
Jeff Markham
Bandsman serving a life sentence.

4BR Reply:
All this and the cricket hasn't even started!

Quit your whining!

Sticking up for the Sally Army; Youth band cheating; World Championship cheating and even something from Sir Clive Woodward - Can you believe the man's cheek eh? All this and more as we swelter in the July sun.

Quit yer whining, would you?! It's been 95 F here for the last couple of weeks, 102 today. And we have an outdoor concert tomorrow.

Good news: It's in a bandstand.
Bad news: Lots of pigeons in the rafters. I think we might be playing the whole concert muted!

Great work, guys, it's nice to keep in touch with the banding scene.

Geoff Tyndall
Rocky Mountain Brassworks
Denver
Colorado

Answer to the Rondoletto for Euphoniums

In answer to your query "Rondoletto for Euphoniums" in "Your comments".

This is available from the Kirklees catalogue see www.kirkleesmusic.co.uk

Graham Horsfield

Looking for the 'Impressario'

Chalgrove Band are looking for a percussion part for The Impressario, as they start preparing the music for the Wychavon Contest, The band would be very grateful if any band has a spare percussion part that they could 'borrow' or 'buy' .If any band can help coulfd they please e mail 'hihatter15@hotmail.com' and they would get back to you.

Chalgrove Band

The answer to the Hodgson Trombone query

Regarding Carol Hirst's enquiry about the Ivor Hodgson Trombone Concerto – Brett Baker performed a Brass Band version with the Jackfield Elcock Reisen Band .

The recording of that live concert is available on the "Excursions" CD (recently written about on the 4br news page). I seem to recall the band played from manuscript parts that evening (I was in charge of the recording that evening), but perhaps a call/email to Brett Baker would get the information she requires.
 
Nigel Hall

Give the Sally Army some support

In reply to Jim Yelland and his query about the English Championships and their ‘secretive' sponsors.

So what if it is SP&S Ltd? I for one think it is great that a major sponsor has come forward to put money into the brass band movement – there are not a lot of them lining up to do it is there?

Let's get off their backs and give them some sort of support. If we don't, then any other prospective sponsor will just think twice about putting any sort of money into the movement. And we cannot afford for that to happen can we?

Paul Evans
Nuneaton   

The final word

On reflection it was a bit of a moment of madness wasn't it? No hard feelings though to either Shaun or Andy, and all the best for Normid in the future. I will pass on the word from Colin and Brenda for you Softlad!

Hopefully see you at Blackpool or Whit Friday again lads.

Tom Hancock
Roberts Bakery Band
1st Section

4BR Reply:
Thanks everyone - that is the end - the very end - the absolute very end. Full stop.  

Youth Band cheating

I agree with the comments from Karl Stott, MD Northop Youth Band regarding youth band contests and I congratulate him for not stooping as low as some bands by "cheating".  I know from personal experience that this happens.

I think there should be strict rules for all bands, a top age of 18 and definitely no older than that.  How can a school band, whose players have to leave at the age of 18, compete with a "community" band who use players of 21+.  How can a 21 year old be classed as a "Youth"?   I know of one band who have actually paid a player to take part in a major youth contest and who regularly use overage players.  Another band I notice changes its name depending on the section it wishes to enter at the Nationals.(You can draw your own conclusions why this would be).

I have followed the Youth Band contests for many years but I have become very disillusioned with them over the last couple of years as I can see there is more and more "cheating" going on.

Some band committees may think they are being clever but surely the victory is hollow when the band playing on stage isn't actually the band that rehearses every week.  In particular what sort of a message does it send to the band members when they know that their band has gained a trophy through cheating.

B. Roberts

Time to take on the Youth Band cheats

Well done 4BR for bringing up the topic of the rules and regulations surrounding Youth Contests.

For far too long it has become apparent that these contests are now biased towards large well funded education authorities who can cram their band with players who are coming to the end of their secondary education, or in many cases, full of players who no longer live or go to school in their county.

Youth banding is in need of a radical overhaul. I for one know of one band that took part in the recent British Open contest that had at least one player who was in full time work playing for them. What was that to do with ‘youth' or education for that matter? It was just plain cheating – and there is a lot of it going on.

P. Davidson

What bands can learn from Sir Clive Woodward!

I've invented a new word: "Woodwardism" - It's the act of reporting a kicking as "A Great Success", as practiced to great effect by the British Lions rugby coach, Sir Clive Woodward on their recent "Great Success" in New Zealand.

I saw a great example of  "Woodwardism" in the recent press release by Murray Warrington, Manager of the NZ National Band.

He says that "Second place went to Brassband Willebroek of Belgium followed very closely by the National Band of New Zealand. The closest British Band (the home of Brass Bands) Reg Vardy Brass Band was placed Fifth."

So, the Kiwis give the Poms another kicking, eh?  Closer examination of the marks reveal that they were 2 points behind Willebroek and 1.5 marks ahead of Reg Vardy. Alastair Campbell would be proud!

Bob Cavender
Ynysawdre

Cheating at the World Championships

I would like to say well done to all the British bands that went to Kerkade last weekend. It was something that I will remember forever. However I was very disappointed with how the contest was run and I feel that we were cheated. Yes, in ever contest one band does have to come last but there was no way that we (Shirland W T Band) played so bad.

Yes, we got a gold medal but the band performed both test piece at the correct tempos and dynamics, where other band in the section played Music for Thanksgiving too fast and too loud. If Kenneth Downie had been sat listening I'm sure his feeling would be the same as mine!!!
 
I won't go in to detail about bands playing championship players, sorry championship bands, in lower sections, then playing the same band in the higher section. Dont you think this is a joke??? This is probably why not many bands from the UK want to go. I'm sure if the contest was run correctly then more bands would apply to go and the results would be correct.
 
I was so happy with how the band had practised and worked hard to get both test pieces up to scratch. Everyone was going to Holland with hopes of good things. All our solo players played as good as any championship player on stages and I must say how well our sop player (Stef "Pinocchio" Maddocks) played.
 
I hope in four years time the people that organize the contest will change all that was wrong. Maybe get some adjudicators that read the music and listen at the same time.
 
Anyway I've had my little moan and I could go on, but as I said it's a contest that I can say I've played in and well done to everyone at Shirland. It can only put us in the mood to do well at the National Finals.
 
Andrew Street
Shirland W T Band

Is the Open Solo Championships still on?

I am just writing you concerning the British Open solo/quartet Championship 2005. Is this contest happening again or not?

I have seen articles for the contest hold in 2004 but absolutely no news from the contest of this year. Is this contest happening in 2005 and how is it possible to register myself in order to participate?

Thanks in advance for your input

Vergères Patrick

4BR Reply:
Yes. They will take place on Sunday 6th November at Hyde Town Hall, with awards totalling over £3300. For an entry form please contact Frank Hodges on 01942 703217 or e mail on frankhodges@bbbr.co.uk

Do you know your Mother from your Moher?

Just a small query/correction to your report on the inspiration for 2006 Europeans. Surely this should be the Cliffs of MOHER rather than those of Mother? I'm sure the composer will probably confirm this.

Christy Smith
Drogheda
Ireland

4BR Reply:
We are sure you are right, but we were given the press release from the organisers. As soon as we know for definite we will let everyone know - Mother or Moher as the case may be.

Looking for Hodgson

I see that you have a review of a CD containing the ‘Trombone Concerto' by Hodgson.  Could you please tell me if that piece of music is available as a trombone solo (bass clef if poss) with Piano accompaniment or brass band parts?  Do you know who publishes or distributes it in the UK?

Thank you in anticipation of your help,

Carol Hirst

And looking for a little Rondoletto for euphs

I would like to purchase the parts and score for "Rondoletto for Two Euphoniums, Euphonium Duet, as recorded on The Virtuosi Brass Band of Great Britain - Vol I.
Can you help me out here?
 
Bill Burks
106 Jim Dedmon Rd.,
Dyer

Are the Salvation Army paying for the English Championships then?
 
"Everyone knows that the Salvation Army is paying for the English Championships", says Stuart Billington.  Unless I have missed something, everyone knows nothing of the sort.  Rumours aren't facts until proven - although the lack of a denial from the SA (or WorldofBrass) might lead us to speculate.
 
If a sponsor isn't getting overt benefit for it's money that might suggest it is getting some sort of covert benefit. If our national organisation is involved, we should all be worried.  As I said a couple of months ago in another letter, it is a matter of ethical business practice.
 
There was a time when the BFBB and an anonymous sponsor could rely on a supine band press not to ask any awkward questions.  Things are different in 2005.  We even have an official rumour mill here at 4BarsRest, which seems to have an uncanny knack of hitting the bullseye more often than not.  Better to make a clean breast of it now rather than having it leak out later.  It will only embarrass both parties.  What have they got to hide? 
 
Jim Yelland 

Eikanger review

Just a short note to agree with Iwan Fox and his review of the latest release from the Eikanger Band ('Tales and Stories').

Having bought this from 4BR (great service boys) I have listened to it with real pleasure. Yes, it is different, but it is so well thought out, produced and performed. Too many bands today are playing the same type of music and trying to package it up in a diferent way, but this was different music packaged up in a new way.

Well done Eikanger - and even priase for the reviewer!

John Bolton

Hancock's Half Hour

It seems the whole Tom Hancock/Bakery Band/Contests v Concerts thing is spiraling out of control. Aren't we all meant to be friends?
 
I know I am echoing views already raised but I think Tom, you have lost sight of your initial point about rankings. I am a big fan of both doing good concerts and contesting (with my preference being the latter if I had to choose) so don't think arguing for one against the other has a point.
 
I also agree that many bands who don't do lots of contesting are of a better standard than bands ranked in the top 200. Take Navigation Brass (who I was honored to be invited to play with in '98 by the great Jack Hargreaves) as an example. Surely this would be a top 50 band if it were a full time, competitive outfit? And this is a situation not confined to the depths of the banding world either, I mean if The Harlem Globetrotters had been a competing team, how many titles, world no.1 rankings etc would they have chalked up?
 
I'm also a little confused as to why Tom, you seem to have a particular grudge with my current band, the United Co-op 2000 Band?? As a proud member of the ‘Ex-Robbo's Boys Institution' (you might like to know I was with the band for nearly 9 years by the way and at the point of leaving I was the 4th longest serving player behind Dave and Rachel Woolam and Tim Sage) I would love to see the band in the top 200 and back in the Championship Section, as, when the band of 1997 (of which I was the Bass Trombone player) achieved this accolade, it was my proudest moment in banding to date. With this in mind I'm not sure why Tom, you seem to be a little sour over our recent contest successes. This has only been done with hard work by a committed bunch of people after all!
 
On a closing note Tom, you may be interested to know we performed a massed bands concert only last night (Sunday 3rd July) with the BT Band. The programme included ORB, The Caliph of Baghdad, Shine as the Light, The Wizard, The Corsair and Procession to the Minster to name but a few. A very enjoyable (and NON-competitive!!!!) evening it was too.
 
So no, this is not the ‘Anti-Tom Hancock Club' but please Tom, lighten up and enjoy your time with what is (to me anyway) a very special band.
 
Please also pass on good wishes to Colin and Brenda from both me and my mother, Jenny Steele.
 
Andy Steele
United 2000 Co-op (Crewe) Band

Been there, done that, times 10.

Tom - I can see the veins standing out on your Forehead - Chill out!

I think you're taking yourself just a bit too seriously here and shouldn't loose sight of the point you originally made, which was;

We played a nice concert last week...why aren't we in the rankings now?

As I kind of said the last time, to be ranked, you have to take part ranking competitions (am I missing something here?), so don't be surprised when you're no where to be seen. Full stop.

In answering your other, erm, points, I would rather do a contest than a concert any day...for me, playing in the endless Winsford Civic/Northwich Memorial Hall merry-go-round wasn't and isn't the same as playing in the National finals in the Albert Hall or Harrogate. But hey, that's my preference, and having done both, I know what I prefer.

You ask, can a band's quality be judged on its recordings? The answer is probably not really - do ten takes of something and you're bound to be able to patch together a decent version, eventually.

However, stick a band on the contest platform, and providing you've not bought anyone in, generally the best players on the day (generally.......turns neglected!!), nerves and best performances prevail. Those that can, do, and in real time.

I take on your point about being a decent concert band, but if I wanted solely that, I would try and join a Salvation Army band as many of them, though being non contesting are very fine bands indeed. I've not seen many in the rankings though....do you think this could be related?

Quite what the relevance of getting Russell Gray (simply the best in my opinion) or any one else to come to play with a band when getting a fee, as their profession demands, is beyond me, but then I am only 36 and after 25 years of pretty average playing, still perhaps a bit naive.

And hey, I loved the point about Faust - I first played that with the band doing a Listen to the Band recording in about 1985 in Manchester....how times (and the programme) have changed!

Oh, and please don't fall into the Whit Friday 'MyDad'sbiggerthanyourDad' garbage; there's been enough tripe written on here about that already. Whit Friday's mean very little in the grand scheme of things, of course, but winning your section a few times may help in the ranking...who knows? That, if you re-read my post, you will see was the point. If I was alluding to anything other than that, I would have mentioned the time when I was lucky enough to play with Point of Ayr at the Whit Fridays and win a venue out right....Doh!!

Fodens? They used to make trucks didn't they?...well, they did when I worked for them.

Shaun Roche

Standards in Youth Bands

I have to agree with the majority of the points you have raised in your article.  It would be beneficial to all bands involved in these contests if the sections were standard in all the competitions.  I like the idea of the National Championships, where 5 sections mean bands can choose to compete against other bands of similar standards.  But even here most bands are eligible to choose from at least 2 sections to play in because of ages etc.

The National Championships are unique though, in that 30+ bands compete every year, so they are able to put on multiple sections.  The Pontins contest had just 9 bands playing over the weekend in 2 sections.  It would have been impractical for the organisers to have held more than the 2 sections they did (although I believe the criteria for each section is changing next year, so it may attract more bands?).  Without more youth bands entering these contests, it is impossible for sections to be standardised in such a way.

As for bands using overage players, I am very proud of the fact that Northop have never acted in this way (although we may have wanted to!!). Before Manchester, I had a certain players mother informing me the night before the contest that her son would not be playing.  The opportunity was there for me to have used an ex-member of our band who was only a year or two over the age limit, but I felt that this cheating would have been unacceptable.  As it turned out on the day, quite a number of bands seemed to have used overage players, and although we didn't complain, I was quite disappointed.  This was in the Community Section, were the age limit was up to 19 on the day of the contest.  Our average age was just 14, and except for our soloist who had just turned 18, no-one in the band was over 16 years old (she didn't play at Pontins, in case anyone is wondering!!)

I believe something should be done to ensure bands are competing in the right sections, but I don't want more rules and regulations introduced.  I think it is important to try to keep the festival atmosphere that is present at most youth contests.  The kids just want to play, they don't want the sort of grilling that we receive at some adult contests.  It is up to the parents, committees and conductors that run the bands to ensure that they are following the rules.

By the way, great write up for Section A from Pontins, but what happened to Section B?

Karl Stott
MD Northop Youth Band

A Black Dyke free Euro Zone?

So the European place for English bands could come from the all new English Championship.......could this mean a European forever free of Black Dyke Band if said illustrious organisation continues to compete in its traditional competition pattern in the UK?
 
I was sure that in the past the British Champions also qualified.....am I right in this thought? If yes than what happens here?
 
On the comment on from Peter Chapman...it would be easier if we could be sure that some of the bands mentioned would show up when the competition is outside the UK!
 
Jim Corrigan

4BR Reply:
If Black Dyke do not retain their title, and do not compete at the English Championships, then yes it seems.  

Morgan missing the point - again!

Robert Morgan once again totally misses the point that was being made by 4BR about the European qualification debate.

This was not mischief making but accurate reporting of an issue that will come to haunt the BFBB if it doesn't get its act together.  There does need to be a formal structure put in place from EBBA to the BFBB, Wales and Scotland to ensure that everyone knows exactly what the qualification process involved is. Mr Morgan as per usual, completely ignores this point.

And as for the English Championships? If Mr Morgan lays all the credit at the BFBB'S door for this one when everyone knows it is the Salvation Army who are paying for it all then heaven help us.   

I wonder and despair about the future of the movement when our so called administrators can't even get this simple matter sorted out. 

Stuart Billington

Posing, posturing and politics
  
I have just spent a few minutes reading the 4barsrest July editorial and the latest comments page with growing disbelief.

Continually the focus of these pages seems to be individuals posturing for position and playing politics with the future of the brass band movement in this country.

We as a body decided to elect the BFBB and its committee and therefore have to abide by their decisions with regard to the future of brass banding. If we don't agree with their decisions then we will have the option of removing them next time around.

In the mean time why don't we spend a little more of our energy getting the BFBB to lobby the government for more funds to teach young players and protect the future of the movement rather then moaning about decisions that do not affect 95% of the movement.

Who will represent England at the Europeans 2006/2007 is no more than a passing interest to most of us, but what should be is where will the next generation of players come from.

I note with interest that locally three bands are advertising for players, one is going to the First Section National Finals, one is conducted by a well respected brass peripatetic and the third has that Chairman of the BFBB as its Secretary. All however are short of the quality players needed to play at their standard even though they have or had hard working individuals training young players.

It is my fear that this great movement that we all love is slowly being strangled by self interest and petty politics.

We have a wonderful forum for discussing this using the pages of 4barsrest.com, lets use it to boost the movement rather than drive wedges in. For once I find myself agreeing with Robert Morgan (a rarity
in itself), lets just get on with it and if you don't agree there is always next years BFBB AGM.

David Harding
Chairman A W Parker (Drybrook) Band

Will the rankings ring fence the top bands?

With more and more contest organisers (All England Masters / Scottish Open) referring to the World of Brass / 4BR world rankings to invite our top bands to contests, over time will this just ring fence top bands ???? (i.e. remain always in the top twenty).
 
If bands continue to get invited to higher level contests and earn ranking points because of the strength of the line up, this will just help bands to maintain their position within what I believe will then become a flawed ranking system. (grey suits - jobs for the boys etc)
 
This will surely make the rankings into tiers (similar to the football league) however, with the distinctive lack of promotion / relegation or opportunity other than the regional to have a crack at your top local bands.
 
Just a thought
 
Tim Malpas.
Cwmaman Institute Silver Band.

Is there going to be a Gala Concert?

I am hoping to attend the Nationals this year  - do you know if there will be a Gala Concert on the evening of this event. I would be grateful to have any details you my have.
 
Derek Cunningham

4BR Reply:
We belive so Derek, but we have no real details at present.

The Youth debate 

I have to agree with the majority of the points you have raised in your article.  It would be beneficial to all bands involved in these contests if the sections were standard in all the competitions.  I like the idea of the National Championships, where 5 sections mean bands can choose to compete against other bands of similar standards.  But even here most bands are eligible to choose from at least 2 sections to play in because of ages etc.

The National Championships are unique though, in that 30+ bands compete every year, so they are able to put on multiple sections.  The Pontins contest had just 9 bands playing over the weekend in 2 sections.  It would have been impractical for the organisers to have held more than the 2 sections they did (although I believe the criteria for each section is changing next year, so it may attract more bands?).  Without more youth bands entering these contests, it is impossible for sections to be standardised in such a way.

As for bands using overage players, I am very proud of the fact that Northop have never acted in this way (although we may have wanted to!!). Before Manchester, I had a certain players mother informing me the night before the contest that her son would not be playing.  The opportunity was there for me to have used an ex-member of our band who was only a year or two over the age limit, but I felt that this cheating would have been unacceptable. 

As it turned out on the day, quite a number of bands seemed to have used overage players, and although we didn't complain, I was quite disappointed.  This was in the Community Section, were the age limit was up to 19 on the day of the contest.  Our average age was just 14, and except for our soloist who had just turned 18, no-one in the band was over 16 years old (she didn't play at Pontins, in case anyone is wondering!!)

I believe something should be done to ensure bands are competing in the right sections, but I don't want more rules and regulations introduced.  I think it is important to try to keep the festival atmosphere that is present at most youth contests.  The kids just want to play, they don't want the sort of grilling that we receive at some adult contests.  It is up to the parents, committees and conductors that run the bands to ensure that they are following the rules.

Karl Stott
MD Northop Youth Band

The trouble with the youth of today?

If 4BR really wants to know what is the problem and trouble with the youth of today – just have a look at how many of them actually go on to play in adult bands.

The problem isn't with the youngsters; it is with the bands who ignore them after they have stopped enjoying playing at Youth level. Who would want to play for bands that are poorly run, just enter
 Contests for small prize money, do not undertake tours of other countries and don't make young players welcome?

It is they who have the problem to solve not the youngsters.

Paul Timms.

Looking for a composers contest
 
I am writing from Australia, but I will be relocating to Belfast in July.  I wanted to know if you might be able to point me in the direction of some brass composition competitions I could enter into.

I have only been writing music for a few years, but am keen to develop in this area.

Any info you could give would be most appreciated.

Roger Trigg

Mischief making over Euro confusion?
 
Having read the article on '4barsrest' headed "Further confusion over European" I sense a bit of mischief making here.

Scotland have already stated their case and I will do so on behalf of English bands.

Firstly, the BFBB is the official English representative on EBBA and pays the membership fee to EBBA.  It is the BFBB's responsibility therefore to nominate the English representative to the EBBA event, by whichever means it thinks best.  For the past 10 years this has been the top English band at the National Finals at the Albert Hall in October.

This process will operate this year and the highest placed English band at the Nationals will be invited to represent England in Belfast in 2006.

From next year the BFBB has decided that the system will change, with the introduction of the English National Brass Band Championships which will take place at The Lowry, Manchester on July 1st.  The winners of the inaugural English Championships will be invited to represent England at the 2007 European Festival at Symphony Hall, Birmingham, when an additional £1,000 will be given towards expenses for the event, upon acceptance of the invitation.

In order that all bands in England have the opportunity to qualify for the Europeans, an invitation has been extended to the 6 English regional winners and this will continue for the foreseeable future.  The remainder of the 14 bands in this contest will come from the World of Brass rankings system.

So, come on lads, we can do without this 'storm in a teacup'.  Perhaps you were upset by the number of Welsh players in the Lions test team.  I hope you feel better come 10 am on Saturday morning!!

Robert Morgan
Chairman, B.F.B.B.

Just invite whoever they want

With reference to the July Editorial and the question of European qualification. Why can't the organisers just invite who they want to their competition?

Banding is becoming more and more like football, and the European Championships more like the Champions League. So why not Dyke, YBS, Fodens from England, BAYV from Wales and Scottish Co-op from Scotland, just being invited and forget about any qualification problems. You will certainly get an audience, especially if the organisers then invite Eikanger, Stavanger, Willebroek and Treize Etoiles.

Wouldn't that just make things a lot easier?

Peter Chapman
Ripon

The trouble with our youth
 
It's about time someone did sort out Youth Contests in the UK. Although they are all great events, it is very confusing with all the different groups and sections, as well as the age ranges that are allowed to play.

What is deemed as a ‘youth' seems to vary greatly – I thought it was someone under the age of 18, but this appears to be incorrect with some players allowed to perform up to the age of 21 and above. At a recent Youth Contest, I was informed that one band actually had ‘Youths' who were University and some who were in full time work!

Well done 4BR – it really is time to sort this out once and for all.

Lesley Edwards  

Why only 25 brass + percussion?
  
I was asked recently by an MD why contests restrict the number of players that can play in a normal contest.
 
He felt that with 40 registered players allowed per band (BBBR rule) why all the players should not be allowed to play. He as the problem every contest that he as to leave players in the band room instead of them playing at the contest.
 
I do not know how far back in our history someone came up with the number of players and on the MD's behalf he would like to here any comments from your readers for or against.
 
Derek Atkinson 
NWCBBA Sec.

NWCBBA Changes - Will they really help?
 
These contest changes will really encourage bands to attend, knowing that up to 20% of your band (if you can afford the deps fees) could possibly include 5 corner men (women) from YBS or Dyke.

I'm sure bands with no funds will be knocking the Northern Open / Guildhall door down to enter a contest they can't afford to win.
 
Billy Brook

Sensitive Composer!
 
I noticed in your news desk items you included the announcement of the Butlins Mineworkers test pieces. Unfortunately, on the press release they had spelt both my names incorrectly - not your fault I know - so I was a little miffed. 
 
Could you please note that my name is spelt as follows:
 
Iain Rayner
 
Many thanks, you know how sensitive composers are!!

4BR Reply:
From now on we will make sure we get it right Iain! 

Who remembers George Fryer?
 
Could you give me any information about George Fryer, who played with Manchester CWS band in the '30s and early '40s? He also played trumpet in many orchestras, professionally, in and around Manchester.

Barbara Fryer

And what would you play on Whit Sunday then?

If you were leading a church procession on Whit Sunday- a Lancashire/ Yorkshire tradition - what tunes would you play?

Am I correct in thinking they may be mainly Victorian/Edwardian tunes or are there modern pieces that are popular? 

Lindsay Neal.

4BR Reply:
Suprisingly, it varies it appears - from the 'traditional' - although the vast majority of marches used come from the Edwardian period (Rimmer etc) to the brand new and even the way out wonders such as 'Amarillo'! None though has any direct link to the original processions. 

^back to top