Comments ~ 2004: April

Welsh Foot Shooting Contest; Complete and utter B***; Grimethorpe and women and much much more

The first female at Grimethorpe?

Just noticed Julie Smith's comments on whether or not I am the the first female to play with Grimethorpe.

Although I don't know if I'm the first, I have been invited to play with Grimethorpe a number of times. The first time was back in 1996 when I helped out on repiano cornet on their "Grimthorpe" CD, then in early 2000 when I was guest soloist (on cornet again) at Mr Howarth's invitation at one of a series of concerts at York University. Since the summer of 2003 I have depped about 3 times on flugel when Ian Shires has been unavailable. Perhaps someone from Grimethopre can fill in about other lady deps?

Helen Fox

Not quite possibly?

No, Sheona White and Margie Antrobus have both helped Grimethorpe out beore. It must have been two of three years ago now.

Hayley Moore

I need to do some work!

Is there any chance you can disable your website between the hours of 9am and 5pm, perhaps making it briefly available around lunch-time? At this rate I will never get any work done! (Timed at 9-25am)! Well done on the new look!

Simon D. Oates
Lincoln

Branded!

The only way to avoid bands being 'branded' (Robert Kavanagh's comments earlier) by one adjudicator (who might not be very good) is to have two adjudicators. Therefore obtaining 2 different opinions, marks separately added together then sorted into winning order out of 400 points. Bands could also score the adjudicator, like football referees, based on the quality of his remarks and other things like getting the right result (tongue definitely in my cheek there). Does anyone have anything to say on this. After all the regional is the most important contest of the year for 99% of bands and all the hard work and effort that has gone into producing a winning performance can be devastated by one man's opinion!!
 
Jonathan Collins

Five Worst Moments - I don't think so

Just got through your European Contest preview. I don't agree with your Five Worst Moments. I still can remember the rehearsals on "Chant de l'Alpe" which I found (still find) a wonderful piece. The thing back in 1994 was that the piece was rather difficult and quite modern and different from the rest of the testpieces bandsmen were used to. As we all know bandsmen tend to be a conservative towards new music. Le chant de l'Alpe was definitely underestimated. Try to see it from this point of view: the brass band story has to go on - we can't just play Sparke and Wilby (and from time to time a little bit of Salvation Army stuff) all the time.

In one thing you're right: we won't hear this piece again i'm afraid...

Stephan Hodel

Complete and utter B******s!

The preamble and disclaimer on your Comments page reads "... the responsible and informed opinion that we ourselves hold". In whose opinion, I have often wondered. Although as it is your site, I suppose you are entitled to enoble yourselves with such self-righteousness as you like. Nevertheless, I find myself considering this phrase again having read your article 'Aragorn - the forgotten test piece', when, having quoted from Tolkein's 'Lord of the Rings', you follow this with, "This is of course is complete and utter bollocks". Notwithstanding the typo, this is your considered editorial line, is it?

I suggest you confine your 'responisble and informed' opinions to brass banding and not venture into literary criticism; I'm not sure the hallowed world of lit. crit. is ready for the 4BR treatment just yet. Thanks for the amusement, though.

David Elliot-Smith.

Welsh foot shooting contest in Ebbw Vale

I have just found out who the adjudicators for the Ebbw Vale Contest are, and to my astonishment the following: Garry Cutt 3rd and 4th, Bryan Hurdley 2nd and 1st, Brian Buckley Junior and Championship.

As a bandsman for many years the Welsh Association again have shot themselves in the foot. Nothing against Brian Buckley, but surely he should adjudicate the Lower Sections - he lives local and there is a very good chance that the own choice test pieces will be leaked out one way or another. To take nay hint of an "it's a fix" comments, surely the Association must rethink their order of adjudicators.

All band personnel put time and effort, then the cost of conductors and transport for £100 first prize (and that's another issue). For the Welsh Association to again let the band movement down in Wales, is very short sighted and disturbing - please wonder committee - GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER.

Mark Richards.

Tongue firmly in the cheek

Thanks to Brian Elliott for his comments on mobile phones and adjudicators. My comments, as I said in the letter, really were 'tongue in cheek'  and not at meant  at all seriously.  It was only seeing the gentleman using a mobile between bands caused my imagination to run riot!!!!

Of course the BOX has always been a point of  discussion through the years.  That  was the real point  that I thought might produce a few responses from bandsmen. I have the greatest respect and confidence that the West of England  Council would always run a tight ship. Brian and his team  are to be congratulated on the running of the Contest, especially after a few technical hiccups! It was a most enjoyable  weekend.

Nomy Davey

Spooky, but get a life 

Whiling away a cold and wet few hours in 4barsrest home town I perused a map book and lo and behold situated quite close to the village of Queensbury home of Black Dyke I noticed two villages called Thornton and Clough - quite a coincidence hey! Honestly I do really have a more interesting life than this!

Julian Baldock
Blaenavon

4BR Reply:
Please, please get a life - even in wondefrul Blaenavon!

Is Helen the first at Grimethorpe?

Having read the concert review of Grimethorpe at Morley Town Hall (17th April) and seen that Helen Fox was on flugel, it has left me wondering if Helen is the first female to play with this prestigious band even as a dep?
 
Julie Smith
Manchester

4BR Reply:
We don't know? Can anyone tell us, or was Helen the first?

Australian Championships 2004 - what's in a judges head?

What a fantastic weekend of high quality performances in the A Grade section of the Nationals at Easter. It would be interesting to find out what was going on inside Major Ian McElligot's head whilst he was adjudicating the section.
 
For instance, many in the audience who heard the Woolston Band from New Zealand play knew that they were in top shape and had bettered previous performances they had given at past Australian contests.  But not to be.  The Woolston Band  (who were awarded 12th place in the British Open a few years ago) were given 150 points out of 200 (and last place) for its performance of Ellerby's Chivalry.  I have to be honest, their performances in the own choice and march sections were nothing short of brilliant.
 
However, the results reminded me of the Australian Nationals last year, where several other top bands that gave stellar performances were "Branded" in a similar way.
 
I would like to congratulate Woolston on their outstanding performances at the Nationals.  The energy that they portrayed in their performances really left the audience moved.  Hopefully that will make up for the disappointment of one man's subjective opinion.
 
I would also like to congratulate Brisbane Excelsior.  Howard Taylor has really raised the bar at Brisbane Excelsior, and it makes for great contesting.  And to Kensington & Norwood, hey, we didn't win, but we played extremely well this year!
 
I was utterly disappointed with McElligot's comments and results.  The embarrassing thing for him is that he has no idea of the calibre of some of the people that were performing and who were in the audience that weekend.  Conductors, soloists and performers from all over the world (and not just from brass band backgrounds) were there - and heard what he had to say.  He displayed no positivity towards Australian brass banding.  It really made me wonder why he bothered to come here in the first place.  Who asked him by the way? Or did he ask?
 
I have never been at a results presentation before where people have walked out in disgust whilst the adjudicator was giving his speech. The results were controversial, as they were when Geoffrey Brand adjudicated last year.  There were some fine performances down the list, performances that were expected by the vast majority to win the contest.
 
The only way to sort all of this out surely is for Australia to have two or three adjudicators.  There is a reason why this seems to be the general norm around the world - and that is that it is probably the safest system.  What do the other Aussie and NZ bandsmen think about this?  Do you think it would be worse than having one adjudicator? Speak out if you have an opinion.  It's the only way we can change things! 
 
Robert Kavanagh 

Australian Championships 2004 - an adjudicators performance
 
I was in attendance at the 2004 Australian National Band Championships A Grade section. Arising from the adjudicator's 'performance'  is much debate in our country on the respect given to the musical ability of the bandsmen by our banding administrators at our annual premiere event.
 
Whilst I acknowledge the extremely hard work and perceived sacrifices of the individuals who put together such an undertaking I cannot help but wonder why the most important decision, that of appointing the chief adjudicator, is not overseen by suitably qualified banding community members.  Bands incur costs in the thousands to attend due to the vast distances in our land, and I'm sure most players would put an extra $5.00 on the trip to help pay for an adjudicator such as Dr Bob Childs, or Gary Cutt. 
 
Making the A grade conductors sit on the stage whilst a man who, whilst well meaning I'm sure, tears apart their hard work is a shameful occurrence and I hope it is never repeated. It is not put upon the other grades so why insult our leading conductors so?
 
We have a great banding community in Australia and our New Zealand colleagues are likewise a warm and engaging extended family.  I hope that the short sighted cost saving actions of a small group of administrators does not deter future visits to our country. 
 
Katherine Litchfield
South Melbourne

Indonesian Bands

Just replying to the letter posted about brass bands in Indonesia by Adam Gregory. Whilst I was at a music conference last week I came accross a university lecturer who specialises in Javanese/Indonesian Gamelan and has spent some time in that area and knows quite a lot about the musical culture in that country. Her name is Maria Mendonca and her email address is maria.m@blueyonder.co.uk. I had a chat with her and she stated that there could well be a brass band of a sort around the capital city, Dakhar ? Not up with many geography. I can't remember what else she stated, so if Mr Gregory wants to learn a bit more I think mailing Maria would be a good idea. Hope this helps in some way.

Richard Jones

Williams Fairey 1994 - the line up named

The list of players from the Faireys photo is as follows:
Source: Sousa Marches: Chandos 4535
 
Soprano: Craig Bennett
Solo Cornet: Brian Taylor, Philip Chalk, Steve Bastable, Tony Goddard
Rep: Lee Rigg
Second Cornet: Gary Parker, Martyn Booth
Third Cornet:J im Leggat, Ray Peacock
Flugel: Simon Stonehouse
Horns: Sandy Smith, Trevor McCormick, Simon Jones
Euphoniums: David Welsh (Principal) Nigel Lawless
Solo Baritone: Peter Christian
Second Baritone: Nigel Beasley
Solo Trom: Brett Baker
Second Trom: Andy Gillooly
Bass Trom: Jim Cant
Eb Bass: Shaun Crowther & Geoff Harrop
Bb Bass: Derek Jackson, Gareth Johnson
Percussion: Jason Jones, Paul Lovatt-Cooper & Mark Hanley

Desford 1986 remembered as well 

The full line up on that photo is a follows;
Front row left to right:
Simon Gresswell, Domonic Glover, Brian Winter, Kevin Steward (Sid, me), Ian Clemson (Alex Higgins), Charlie Pendrey.
Next row: Carol Crompton the head behind carole is Jason Glover, Keith Britcliffe behind is Dave Giblin, Howard Snell of course and behind Ken Ferguson, Steve Mead behind the trophy, Steve Archer behind the official, Peter Keeling the Chairman and Behind I think is Bob Watson, Martin Winter, Adrian Flowers With the beard! Behind him is Dean Purnell ( just the top of his head, but a very welsh head!) then lastly, a lean and hairy Chris Jeans.

Incidently, there is another photo in Geoff brands book, the world of brass bands. This one shows more of the band. Of the people in your picture, three are still members of the Band, Adrian Flowers, Brian Winter, and myself.

Kevin Stweward (Sid.)

Updating Websites!

Congratulations 4 barsrest on a great web site! Great variety of articles to read from all around the world. I noticed though that you obviously had not received any results from the recent Queensland Championships held at Easter. My band South Brisbane Federal Band won the "A" grade section, beating off determined challenges from Brisbane Brass and Capricornia Silver.

One "beef" I have with a lot of band web sites is their lack of updating same. Many sites have not been kept up to date since they were obviously first started. Yes I know it is hard work (I do ours with some help) but the rewards can be excellent. For example we obtained a job in Hong Kong of all places playing at the International Chinese New Year parade! What a job that was, full accomodation for four days and getting to play in front of 400,000 people in Hong Kong-terrific! Of course we also get to hear from our friends from all around the globe who enjoy coming to our site and we sell the odd cd. Your members can have a look at us on www.thefeds.org.au. So come along and get your web sites updated reguarly!

 John Kennedy

 A bunch of bankers...

Alliance and Redbridge’ Hmmmm…. That could almost be a name for a banking and mortgage firm…

Personally, not having heard the championship section at Stevenage and having no vested interest in Redbridge or Alliance, but as a long term London lower section bander, all I can say is good luck to the pair of them at the RAH. As for issues of ‘split count’ and ‘right type of sound’, I think that’s something the adjudicators can sort out for themselves on the day!

Dave Payn

Mistakes, Mistakes!

I always read your articles and looked with interest at your analysis of your predictions for the regionals. Went straight to the Yorkshire Championship section where you claim to have done well and there I read that you claimed to have predicted Rothwell Temperance in 6th place - not as I recall; you did not have Rothwell in the frame but you did have Hepworth as 6th and they came 9th. Is this the only mistake?

Mike Shenton

4BR Reply:
Well spotted! It's are only one (we think) so sorry to one and all.

How the West was won.

Reference the recent comments from Nomy Davey, I am delighted she had a wonderful weekend at the West of England Regionals.

I have no opinion on the question of open adjudication as all Regional Committees must abide by the National Contesting Rules. Should bands and players wish for changes to be made to this or any other subject, these should be addressed in the first instance to their local Associations.

Regarding mobile telephones and the possible use by adjudicators whilst in the box, this subject has been raised at national level both with the Federation and Kapitol Promotions. Here in the West of England, the Council requested that adjudicators "do not take mobile telephones into the box/hide", and in fact all 3 adjudicators offered their machines to me for safe keeping before entering the box. I can assure Nomy that the Council of West of England always tries to be one step ahead of changes and developments in the contesting field.

Look forward to seeing Nomy and all our many supporters at next year's Championships on 12 and 13 March 2005.

Brian Elliott
Secretary
Council of West of England BBAs

A philosophical rambling: Life's a bitch...

After reading recent comments on this forum about the merits of contesting, I would like to throw my hat in the ring with a few philosophical ramblings.

The contest stage is a valuable tool for all bands and in an ideal world (not the real world) should primarily be for improving musicianship (even the top bands) and secondly winning trophies ugh!! Hence it is essential that the brass band repertoire is pushed to the limit with new music that will test the very best of bands. However a lot of this music is for the contest stage only and that is where it will remain.

The spin of from this is that the musical standard will be maintained by performers and composers alike; and that good listenable new music for the concert stage will be produced and we will have enough good players to do it justice.

Yes we do want good new music and we don’t want to be rooted in the past, but we do not want to become snobs either. The brass band movement will always need to embrace the wider public to survive, and people like a good tune (see Stan C Wood’s comments made earlier).

Therefore spare a thought for the adjudicator, because he only has the score to measure the performance of a band, and don’t forget: life’s a bitch and then you die.

John Bray

London Debate goes on...

I've been reading with much interest and some 'bemusement' the recent letters about bands in general, and Alliance in particular, moving on and forward. The general thrust of the printed arguments seems to be that those who bemoan the march of progress should wake up and get in line. However, has anyone considered that bands in the past might, just might, have got it right? There is no rule of nature which dictates that progress is necessarily good............

Roger Pearcey. Suffolk.

And on...


With all this correspondance whizzing around about Stevenage at least there seems to be some interest left in this corner of the Brass Band World!!

Being a member of Aveley & Newham I of course think we should have qualified, but it's over now - get over it! I would like to think it has been a dignified silence from our members, but of course it's down to the fact most of the band can barely read... (coming from a drummer I know that's a bit rich, but I do remember the time I locked my keys in the car and it took us an hour to get the Bass Trombonist out) I am going to get my ass kicked in the bandroom, but what the hell!

More seriously, it is good to have healthy competition in the area and I for one will be going all out next year at the area to bring the title back to Aveley.

One thing I have noticed over the last few years is the reluctance of college brass players to blow full out, when they are perfectly capable of doing so. I remember from my time at the RCM (I'm a cellist, for my sins... cue jokes about a banjo in the bandroom, trust me I've heard them all) that instead of encouraging the strings to match the brass most of the time conductors would show the palm to the heavy mob. (sound familiar chaps?!) The point is that a lot of the time at college players have their wings clipped, through no fault of their own and it takes time for that to be un-learnt. There should be some members of Alliance that remember me encouraging them to take the roof off, when necessary, in West Side story with NMSO which seemed to be a surprise to them. (when they weren't on the cricket pitch...) Maybe that is what Mr Jolly noticed. However he criticised and praised us all in reasonably equal manner, but didn't agree with the result from the box. Apart from the winning band, who ever does?!

Good luck to both Redbridge and Alliance at the Nationals, I am of course sad that we are not there, but with at least three bands going after two places someone is always going to be disappointed. Just wait till next year.....

Obviously none of this is a reflection of any views held by Aveley & Newham, just the views of one drummer preparing for the synchronised standing up at the end of Les Preludes at the Shield! By the way, I am the 'slightly dodgy glock player' and am still trying to live it down, but no hard feelings, eh?!!

Jon Kitchen

And on (with a bit extra)...

I have been following the debate concerning the London Area contest and also the rather interesting "No Trust left" letter by John Courtney (London). I will first of all deal with the issues concerning the Alliance brass affair.

I would like to initially state that the formation of new bands outside the percieved strongholds of banding can only be a positive sign, since as was stated in one of the other letters the number of contesting bands does seem to have decreased. The creation of a band from the amalgamation of music colleges or universities should be encouraged, after all was it not Mr McCann and the Sellers company that took the Huddersfield Poly band from the lower sections up to championship section in a short space of time.

In my knowledge there are brass bands in a considerable amount of universities, only a few of which contest, for instance Salford, RNCM, Huddersfield Uni, Durham, York, Warwick and I'm sure the Welsh College of Music and Drama and the other Royal Colleges also have bands. The formation of these bands must be good for the organic growth of banding since it introduces students to repertoire that they would not generally play in outside bands.

So I congratulate the efforts of those who started Alliance and continue to develop their ensemble to greater success in the future. As for the player finding the bands ? In my opinion, bands are better advised to go out and look for the players in local comprehensive schools and inparticular universities. In Huddersfield and Sheffield Universities there are always posters around the department asking for players to attend their rehearsals. If bands want players, young or old, they will need to go out and get them, the time that players did the donkey work is fast declining.

As for the "A big and long can of worms" response from Mr Jolly. Although I agree that the sound of various bands is as subjective as adjudicating at a contest, there are certain elements of his response I find quite unsettling, for instance stating that "...the split count was low". Surely as a listener at a contest the musicality of the experience must be the main priority, unless that is all that go to contests are indeed no more than armchair adjudicators who are there for the "blood sport" rather than the musical beauty of the performance of a piece of music.

The other comment that grinded me, ever so slightly, was the "....needs to be rooted in tradition to find balance". Surely we should not be looking back all the time in everything we do ? I appreciate that banding history is particularly rich and something to value, but time eventually moves on and we should be looking to value bands which have a different sound from the norm. If everyone wanted a traditional sound played by a band, then surely the music would have to remain of a certain style because it would no doubt limit the change and again "organic" growth of the movement (for instance playing transcriptions and arrangements of Beethoven at every major contest because the traditional band sound suits that sort of music).

By trying to limit the sound to that of a traditional sound in every band you are surely narrowing banding in general? As a member of a band who has a very traditional sound (my opinion, might not be others!) I appreciate what Mr Jolly means about the sound of a band, but my band can also play with many sounds, a controlled sound, loud round sound and others etc. An orchestra playing a romantic piece of music (for instance slow movement of Mahler 5) is going to have a profoundly different texture or timbre than that playing a fairly contemporary piece by Ligeti or even Stravinsky.

Difference again should be encouraged, because diversity is what makes individual people different to each other and also diversity offers people the opportunity to have unique or separate opinions as seen in this debate. So difference in sounds would help create more diverse sounds and perhaps in time, with hopefully a continuous evolution in our repertoire, the more orchestral brass sound may, or may not, become the standard sound of a brass band.

As for the No Trust issue, I can see that there is definitely a low sense of trust in banding, most of it involved in the context of contests i.e the adjudicator has had a back hander because we didn't win and we played a blinder. Although most initially think that on the contest day, with hindsight, as an individual, you just have to believe that these decisions and others are just part of the game. As for the other issues which he stated, the sly approaches happen in most forms of life, in particular business where people are head hunted. Money is also a necessary concern for those bands who do not have sponsorship and for those who do have sponsorship I suppose to a lesser extent (perhaps!).

As for the lack of respect, I have and many others a huge amount of respect to many in the movement who strive the on going organic evolution of brass bands, not to mention those who are involved at the grass roots concerning the youth and players of the next generation and last but certainly not least those who play in the lower sections and perform to their highest or best ability in rehearsal or performance. Whilst competitions exist which don't have transparent adjudication methods and the audience/players know how an adjudicator works and what they look for in particular then there will be suspicion. This element of suspicion also occurs if another bands conductor or players appears at your rehearsal, there is immediate suspicion, again this is brought about by the competition culture of banding (i.e is he there to spy on our best players, is he there to see how we play a piece etc!. I think that sort of mentality is sad for the movement.

Last point on this subject.
Whilst we have such a competitive environment of course the top bands will want to win. Looking back to the history of the movement, one of the roles of the early contest was to see who was best, which mills workers were the best etc. Today, culture in general is more competitive and it would be nice to have competitions for the top bands which celebrate the musical aspects, for instance giving awards like were given in the Youth Championships or music for youth instead of first, 2nd and 3rd.

Richard Jones

Welcome to the 20th Century

In respect of Mr Jolly's comments about Alliance Brass's performance at the area contest, David Geoghegan writes "..It is this kind of terribly narrow-minded attitude that (causes brass bands) to remain in the last century".

Sadly, there are some who would prefer brass bands to remain, not in the last century, but the one before that. I fear that for such people, musically, the 20th century was something which only happened to other people.

Alec Gallagher

Spring time in Wales?

As the rest of us wander amidst a host of golden daffodils, listen to the birds singing and setting our clocks to British Summer Time it seems that our friends at 4BarsRest are still deep in the depths of winter with their logo showing snow and a holly clipping!

I have personally experienced the inclement weather of the 'Land of My Fathers' on many an occasion but never thought that a winter of discontent would remain thus far into the year.

I do hope that the sun will soon shine upon you all and assist in melting the lingering snow.

Simon D. Oates,
Lincoln

4BR Reply:
We removed the 4br Christmas logo in early January. The problem is that you haven't cleared your 'cache' menory in your computer recently. We don't want to confuse you with 'techno speak' but all you need to do is in Internet Explorer, go to the Tools > Internet options > Temporary Internet Files > Delete Files.

If you haven't done this for a while it'll take a while to clear. It's a good idea to do this regulaly anyway.

Rankings - explain please!

I am sorry to have to add to the debate about your ranking system, but looking at the new rankings, I am left scratching my head in confusion as to how you work out your points. I refer to the inclusion of Zone One Brass at 174 with 3.00 points. How did you work this out? They were a new entry band last year in the first section of the London and Southern Counties areas, came second last year and fifth this year. This, according to your calculations, gives them 3 ranking points. All well and good.

My confusion (and the associated splinters in my fingers) derives from the absence of Northfleet Brass in your rankings. They were promoted to the first section after winning the second section in 2002, were awarded fifth place in 2003, and then came second this year. An identical series of placings to Zone One, but in the reverse order. Why are they not therefore at the same position? Does their presence in the 2nd section in 2002 count against them? If this is the case, then why do Zone One, who only competed for the first time in 2003, be afforded an advantage?

Please, end my confusion and agitation!

Richard Parsons
Contest Secretary, KM Medway Band

4BR Reply:
Northfleet Brass do indeed have more points from the regional contests than Zone One Brass (1.1 against 0.7), but the points that Zone One gained at last years finals are still more than enough to keep them ahead. Northfleet's presence in the 2nd section in 2002 isn't a factor, but Zone One's impressive performance at Dundee most definitely is.

John Casey

Date of Birth?

I have programmed one of Peter Graham's pieces and I have not been able to locate his birth date. Could you help me?

Sean Flannigan

4BR Reply:
We haven't seen his birth certificate, so can anyone help?

The decline and fall of the banding empire

Well done 4BR for using your editorial to point out that there seems to be no one doing anything about the decline in our contesting numbers.

I can remember a time when each of the sections at the Regional Championships was full of bands all trying hard to get a qualification place at the Finals. Now, even Yorkshire can't get 10 bands in the Fourth Section.

No one though seems too concerned do they? As long as we have a Championship Section contest at the big venues then our administrators seem happy to tag along and revel in the glory. Now we have sold off the Lower Sections to the highest bidder and it is easy to see what will happen. In ten years time the Nationals will be an invitation contest, whilst the Lower Sections will be left to slowly wither and die.

4BR - you have done us a favour in pointing it out, so lets see some of our administrators do something positive about it.

Ian Wilkinson
Chesterfield

No Trust left

So 4BR, you think there should be trust in banding - get real!

Banding at the top most level is all about underhand, double dealing, dodgy practices, sly approaches, money and lack of respect - and that is just the conductors!

It is also the reason why you point that over 100 bands have given up the ghost in the past 10 years or more. Honest people who used enjoy banding for the friendly compeitive atmosphere have simply had enough. The Leylandgate affair just showed why we are a movement in decline.

Most of us want to play music - most top bands just want to win prizes. It has become pathetic.

John Courtney
London

Bolero & Alliance Brass

Firstly, Mr Paul Santini has asked, through 4BR, if a professional arrangement of Ravel's Bolero has been made for Concert Band as he would like to work on the piece with his students.

A recently published arrangement of Bolero does indeed actually exist for concert/wind band and, much to my dismay and considerable distress at the time of its first appearance, does so under my name, attributed to me. I believe that the arrangement is still available to purchase. I say to my dismay because NOT A SINGLE NOTE of this arrangement was penned at all by myself and I knew nothing whatsoever of its existence until it appeared in print.

I had nothing whatsoever to do with the making of a single bar of the arrangement wrongly credited to me and its apublication came as a complete and total shock, resulting in an extremely strong exchange of correspondence between myself and Mr Frank Bernaerts at the time. I did not receive any financial income whatsoever from the arrangement (I refused to accept any future royalties for an arrangement I literally had nothing whatsoever to do with writing) and I insisted that it was morally wrong for my name to have been used, implying that I was in any way responsible.

The identity of the actual arranger is not known to me at all but to start Ravel's Bolero at the correct dynamic of 'pp' by using a Baritone Saxophone and unison Horns is, in itself, quite ridiculous and I could list countless further instances which render this published arrangement extremely weak. I repeat, it has nothing whatsoever at all to do with me.

Equally, I was so dismayed that the arrangement of Bolero I had made for brass band was actually changed beyond recognition by the publishers (eg. 17 full bars were added if memory serves that I never arranged, individual parts were changed, chords were changed, accidentals were added and removed from the score I had written) that I successfully demanded that my name be removed from future print runs of the Bernaerts brass band arrangement and catalogue entry with immediate effect. When I last saw such a catalogue there was indeed no arranger's name attributed to Bolero at all thankfully, although I believe hundreds of wind band sets have indeed been sold around Europe, regrettably under my name as I say and with no financial recompense to me.

If Mr Santini wishes to purchase an arrangement of Bolero for Wind Band I politely suggest he goes nowhere near the one falsely attributed to me. I remain dismayed that such practice can exist where a name can be attached to work that the individual did not even know about, never mind had anything at all to do with its creation.

Alliance Brass

On a happier note, with regard to the 4BR correspondence surrounding Alliance Brass, I am delighted to say that I am wholeheartedly in support of this fine band and its motives in every way.

As it was co-founded and initially conducted for the best part of its first 2 years by my former Smithills School and Tuba pupil Ben Ellin and is now conducted by the excellent John Clark, I was delighted to host Alliance Brass in a joint concert at Smithills School just prior to their appearance in the National Finals (First Section) at Preston Guildhall in September 2001, when the band finished in second place having qualified by winning its very first contest at the Area Qualifier in London that Spring.

To begin life with a victory and a second place in its first two contests is an extraordinary start and I agree with everything David Gheoghan said in his correspondence to 4BR. The brass band movement should be encoraging the formation of bands and any new interest in the repertoire for the genre at every level, especially at a time when seemingly more and more bands are folding or having to merge with others (same end result) etc.

Congratulations Alliance on your initial formation and continued success; I for one applaud your very existence and your reasons behind getting together as you do.

Chris Wormald

A big and long can of Worms....

Firstly I would like to set the record straight about my intentions. I in no way intended to discredit any bands, I merely had questions to ask. As I said previously this is just my opinion. Also I defend my right to question the judges opinion, as much as the right of someone else to question mine.

Contests are always going to produce differences of opinion and long may that continue.

I am sorry Mr Geoghegan finds the fact that I agreed with the placement of Alliance Brass in the top two at the area insulting and disappointing. I
believe that I praised several aspects of Alliance's playing, but found the sound of the band to be not what I was looking for. Ensemble and musicality
of the band are not in question, and the split count was low. Also the sound of the band is far from unpleasant, but for my taste it wasn't traditional
enough. This is just one man's opinion, of course. This is certainly not narrowminded. Organic development in banding is essential, but I feel it
needs to be rooted in tradition to find balance.

Having read Mr Clark's comments it is evident that Alliance are in good hands. He is clearly an intelligent and informed man. I do, however, have a
couple of quibbles (I fear you are not surprised!). When I talk about a brass band sound I am not referring to 'an unsupported sound with an
effeminate, nanny goat vibrato'. Mr Clark mentions developing a richer sound and that is exactly what I meant. As regards the differing sounds in orchestras there are always nuances that are recognisable, but in the top orchestras in the world there is one constant and that is the fullness of
sound, be it within the warmer sound of an English orchestra (typified by the full strings, mellifluous wind and powerful brass), or the edgier sound
of a Russian orchestra (with its earthy strings, slightly more brittle wind and harsher brass).

With regard to the use, or not, of BBb tubas because of tuning issues, surely this raises other questions - I was under the impression that bands are required to use the instruments specified. For example, if a piece has a particular passage for soprano that would be more in tune on a D trumpet or a picc it is not permitted to have that instrument play. In fact you mention yourself that a Brass Band "refers to the instrumentation of an ensemble and does not imply a distinct style of playing". If this doesn't apply to tubas I apologise for my ignorance.

It is refreshing to hear a conductor say they feel priveleged to be invited to join a band, and to obviously mean it.

To return to Mr Geoghegan, I applaud the reasons that Alliance came into being, a genuine desire to play brass band music is to be lauded. I'm sure
that none of the bands in the area would turn away any of the quality players at Alliance's disposal. However 'meeting a few times a year' is not what bands tend to do. It is a year round commitment which doesn't, unfortunately, sit very well with the demands of being at a college, no matter how good the intentions. Are band secretaries to be chasing round the colleges for that 'banding superstar' who can only make a handful of rehearsals and who, at a moments notice, can be required to be elsewhere?

Shouldn't the player find the band, not the other way round? I am sorry this is so long winded, but there are three other views out there, all coming from slightly different angles!

In reference to Mr Flower I would like to agree with him that the three bands 'in the frame' did indeed play to an extremely high standard, as did all the bands that day. Tristan Encounters is a testing piece and all of the bands had some problems and also strengths in their performances. I just differed in my opinion as to what that meant in the final analysis. Weighing up between the technical expertise/smaller sound of Alliance versus the full sound/errors of both Redbridge and Aveley & Newham (in the simplist terms) is subjective and again, on the day there was only one opinion that counted.

I do, however, stand by my assertion that the contest was between Alliance and Aveley & Newham - that is my privelege. As for his assertion that Alliance and Redbridge are the top two bands in the area, as far as the 'area' contest goes I cannot argue, the facts do not lie. Looking at the
bigger picture though, it is hard to judge these three bands for several reasons. Redbridge and Alliance certainly seem to have the edge in Stevenage, but Alliance do not appear at any other contests against the other two bands. At the recent contests that Aveley & Newham and Redbridge
have appeared other than the area (such as the Masters & Yeovil), I believe that Aveley & Newham have been the higher placed band. I personally think this is an indication that London & Southern counties has at least three bands that are worthy competitors in the brass band world. They can all win on their day.

As you state, it is easy to be an armchair critic. However, I refer you to Mr Clark's point no. 3 "We will always play for the performance and not the
contest. This means not pandering to the adjudicator but entertaining the audience. Music performance is all about communication with the listener. If you the musician have not held the attention and changed the lives, for 10 minutes or so, of the people who are listening then you have failed in terms of performance" He is quite correct and I reserve my right as a member of that audience to hold an opinion.

I do hope that this clarifies my position. I would like to stress again that this is not a criticism of any of the competing bands - they are all an asset to the area.

Peter Jolly.

Fancy a look at a Blue Magazine?

The recently released Uppermill Whit Friday 2004 souvenir programme (£1.50) features on its cover a picture of the combined Dobcross Silver Band (wearing caps) and Dobcross Youth Band (capless) marching out of Uppermill on Whit Friday morning 2002.

However most puzzling is the fact that the bands are not wearing their famous red uniforms.They appear in light blue tunics!!!

The logo on the cuffs is however still the red and white rose of Dobcross.

Answers please the Uppermill Whit Friday magazine publishers...........

Incidentally two of the players featured, Alan Hodgkinson on bass and Barry Bentley (now Wingates) on baritone, also appear on the cover of Dobcross Whit Friday United Effort's 2004 programme (£1) in a photograph taken earlier the same day. The scarlet of Dobcross in much evedence here. Curious to say the least.

Both magazines are an excellent read and are recommended as a must for all Whit Friday supporters. Why not buy both and compare the pictures.

K.P. Greenhalgh
Dobcross Silver Band

Here we go again.....

Nearly ten years out of banding and I am still hearing the same old tired views and comments about what is a brass band, what it should sound like, what repertoire it should play and how it should play it etc etc.

Is the world still flat?

As I shall be conducting Alliance for the forseeable future let me nail a few opinions of my own to the mast.

1. A Brass Band refers to the instrumentation of an ensemble and does not imply a distinct style of playing. (refer to the sound of an English orchestra and a Russian orchestra.)

2. Alliance will never produce an unsupported sound with an effeminate, nanny goat vibrato so typified by most bands. The best bands don't produce that sound (anymore!) so why should we. Our sound, especially the cornets, will develop and get richer. We will also utilize BBb tubas when we can find instruments that are in tune. At the area we made a vastly better sound than at the Nationals.

3. We will always play for the performance and not the contest. This means not pandering to the adjudicator but entertaining the audience. Music performance is all about communication with the listener. If you the musician have not held the attention and changed the lives, for 10 minutes or so, of the people who are listening then you have failed in terms of performance. If that attitude happens to win a few contests then great.

4. We will always endeavor to play the music and take due note of the composers intention. For example, Mr Jolly pointed out that the adjudicator should be aware of the composers wishes as well as split notes.

As a band we have only just begun to develop. We have an awful lot to learn and are not afraid to change the way that we play to suit the genre and the music. Journey into Freedom and Prague are poles apart and cannot be played in the same style. The same could be said of Year of the Dragon and Montage. How many bands and MD's adopt this attitude to the music? (Or should I say how many bands COULD change their style!)

Alliance consists of a wonderfully talented group of players, all of whom want the opportunity to play brass band repertoire at its best. The band is only just beginning to wake up to its potential as an ensemble. I feel privileged to be invited to join this band.

Before anyone puts pen to paper consider this... In its first 4 years the band has come 2nd in the First Section Nationals and has qualified for the Championship section twice.

Is this the most exciting band the South has had in a decade...

..... or is the world still flat.

John Clark
Alliance Brass

Not so Jolly, Mr Jolly

Mr Jolly (letters, March) states ‘I understand that the only opinion that counts is the one in the box, but hopefully lively debate and differences of opinion are an integral part of banding’. Up to that point only I am in total agreement. However, while differences of opinion are an integral part of banding, opinions that attempt to discredit other bands performances and question the musical judgment of the adjudicator appear to be just ‘sour grapes’.

This type of comment is not at all helpful and is best left in the band room. It is a fact of life that a fair amount of the audience does not agree with the adjudicator – it’s not at all surprising since only one band can win – but unfortunately, Mr. Jolly, you just have to learn to live with it. All of the three bands in question played to an extremely high standard of performance and I thoroughly enjoyed all of them. With regard to Mr Jolly’s comments that he hopes that ‘for the sake of the areas standing the two bands put in a better showing at the Nationals than last year’ - it’s all too easy to be an armchair critic. Achieving consistently high results at that level is extremely difficult, and especially so for southern bands (a debate for another day ….).

I would like to congratulate the two finalists Redbridge and Alliance and wish them the very best of luck at the RAH where I am sure that they will both put on super performances. With a superb three wins in a row for Redbridge and two consecutive second placings for Alliance, this appears to me to be a clear endorsement from successive adjudicators that these bands are, for the moment, the top bands in our area.


Alan Flower

Rankings - First section bands

A friendly note for your Mr. Casey!

Many thanks for the expansion of your rankings – it makes interesting reading and I’m sure gives encouragement to bands not regularly in the news.

However, I’m not convinced that it currently serves bands well who are in the First Section.

Following the recent Area Qualifiers, (quickly puts on anorak and adjusts NHS Specs…), it is very noticeable that the winning bands in the first section have experienced widely differing changes in ranking.

In Yorkshire, Hatfield Coal jumped an incredible 72 places to 68th. In Wales, Parc & Dare improved 15 places to 72nd. In the North-West, Pemberton Old Wigan also stepped up 15 places to 54th. Congratulations to these bands on their success. This recognition is however, not equal throughout the country.

In the Midlands, winners Langley are a ‘New Entry’ at 169. In the West of England, Bournemouth were victorious and moved up a stunning one place to 117th. In London & S. Counties, Staines were the winners and are…..not to be found at all in the list.

So – It’s clear that not all areas are treated as equal in the First Section, which is fair enough as we know that not all areas are equal in ‘quality’. But has this judgement of ‘quality’ (and therefore the awarding of ranking points) been based on results and therefore the strength of the first section?

Using your own data, by aggregating the final positions of the two qualifying bands from each area in the National Finals over the last four years the real relative strength of each area can be seen (the lower the result, the better performance of the bands at the nationals and therefore the ‘stronger’ the area).

Surprisingly, we find the following;

Midlands = 42
North-West = 49
West of England = 64
Yorkshire = 64
Wales = 83
London = 87
Scotland = 88

So – Figure out if you can the reasoning behind Hatfield Coal’s rocketing position against Bournemouth’s measly increase, when it appears that the areas are of the same ‘quality’ – in the First Section. Also, it’s interesting to note that whilst there were 9 bands for Hatfield to beat, Bournemouth had to conquer 13 other bands to win (and Staines had to finish ahead of another 16 bands!!) .

The answer must be that the relative strength of the areas is calculated using only the Championship bands as a guide. Clearly this works well in the Championship Section, but does not reflect reality in the First Section.

Andrew Elliott, Belgium

Regional comments

London

Having read this [retrospective], and then seen the make up of the back row at Battle Town according to their website, one has to say that the review of the forth section in L&SC smacks of Alec Stewart being selected prematurely for England when his Mickey Stewart was manager.

I saw most of the bands from 1-7 and 13 onwards, and I didn't see anyone in a BSN [brand spanking new] 4barsrest t-shirt, whereas I did the day before in the second section. Hmmm...

If the reviewer was there, all well and good, (no one has to conform to a uniform) but then it should have been possible to give some sort of critique on Fulham's performance beyond the bland sentence given. If he or she went to the loo when band number 11 was on, then say so. Of course, given your preiction, your rep shouldn't have left the auditorium knowing that one of your picks was on.

Comments?

The views stated in this email are the personal views and ramblings of the author and in no way represent the opinions of anyone else at Fulham Brass.

William Elsom, Fulham Brass

West of England

Did you actually listen to al the 3rd section bands at Torquay? Very dissapointed with your comments. Seems just a rehash of David Reads comments. Where's your thoughts on each bands performance?very dismissive of the bands lower down the results.

A dissapointed 3rd section solo horn player
Elaine Rodgers

West of England

I read with some disapointment the comments for the first section of the west of england. Having worked so hard for many weeks and considering a performance worthy of at least more than two lines, it is frustrating to hear how the performances were viewed.

As a player I must admit to not hearing many bands, but we were pleased with our efforts and even had comments from listeners who really enjoyed the music. I think you should consider the players and the hard work put in by all and perhaps recognise some bands may not have achieved what they wished on the day. All I can say is we were pleased and enjoyed the weekend and maybe the adjudicator felt the same way.

Helen Acock, Stroud

4br reply:
We are aware that the restrospectives for lower sections are at times not as thorough as the championship section. And as a Cardiff City supporter you can understand my disappointment every Sunday when I read the Observer's sport section.

We are trying hard to readdress the problem of less coverage for lower section bands and we're doing that in parts with our comprehensive previews and dodgy predictions, together with a news section that is dominated with press releases from lower section bands.

Our retrospectives are getting better and in time we hope to be able to more detailed reports.

Sorry if we didn't please you this time.

The Wonderful West

What a wonderful w/e of music at the West of England Regionals. Thoroughly enjoyed it all, wonderful to see so many young people involved in the movement, and the (some considerably) older ones who are still there.

Now a little food for thought (With perhaps a little tongue in cheek).

Having not attended for a few years there were some changes I noticed. First was the modernisation of the old Adjudicators wooden box. Now there were curtains and would you believe a red and green light to inform the bands the adjudicator was ready. Great.

I suppose we still need to screen the adjudicator? (Am I opening up a can of worms?)

While there, I noticed a gentleman using a mobile 'phone between bands. (Despite instructions in the programme that all mobiles must be turned off). Was this man from 4 Bars Rest?

Not criticising as I think the site is great. To have the news about Draw and results online so quickly is wonderful. Thank you to the team at 4 Barsrest..

But this set me thinking. Now this gentleman could have been calling the Adjudicator in his curtained cubicle!! NO we would hear the ring. Perhaps it was a vibrating call or a text message. There are several ways communication could be made in this day and age.

My point is this, is the Box enough in the 21st Century? Perhaps we should now have Frisk Marshalls to search the adjudicator before he enters the box . If necessary they could then confiscate any suspicious object.!!

Congratulations to - not just the winning bands - but to all who spent so many hours together rehearsing. It is hard not to get good results when you have worked so hard. But you have gained so much by being together in friendship and camaraderie. Your day will come.

Nomy Davey

4br reply:
It might have been us - look out for a BSN t-shirt next time. As for informing the adjudicators, there's always been ways adjudicator's could be informed. And there's been plenty of conspiricy theories over the year's!

If bands are that concerned then Open adjudication is the obvious solution.

Anyone know of an Asian Brass Band?

I may be moving to indonesia and am looking to find a Brass Band if there are any in Indonesia.

Could you please help me find any information that is available on bands in this area. Any info u can give me i would be very grateful.

Adam Gregory

Putting the record straight

I am the MD of Dunston Silver Band and would just like to put the record straight regarding the 4th Section at the Northern Areas. Askham did not turn up at the specified time and the organisers were having a confab over what to do and it was first mooted that the band be disqualified. Alan Hope the contest controller came down and had a chat with me and other officials about what to do and everyone agreed it would be harsh to disqualify Askam as they had travelled so far and discretion was allowed to change places if everyone agreed.

It was decided that Dunston would go on before Askam and we signed on ready to do so. Askam turned up at the very last minute before we took the stage and Alan asked if we step aside to let them take their normal position. They got on the stage and then had to leave immediately because of the accident with quite a long delay before they could resume. At no time did Dunston go on the stage and then leave and we have no complaints regarding the organisation or how things were handled.

As far as our performance went the band played fantastic in the morning, unfortunately it was at the practice and not at the contest. The band are not used to contesting and when they started nerves got the better of them. All the band looked composed and focused leading up to going on stage and seemed to be unaffected by the uncertainty of when we would play. It was just a bad case of stage fright and not other factors that contributed to our poor performance. We hope to play the same piece at Whitehaven to show what the band can really do and hopefully we wont let nerves affect us this time!!

The organisers said nothing this eventful had ever happened before and they had never even had a fire alarm. One hour later the fire alarm went off - famous last words:)

Good luck to both qualifiers in the 4th section at Harrogate. I must state that the contest is always well run and organised and all the problems were handled as well as could be expected under the extraordinary set of circumstances that were thrown up. Next year can only get better!!

Alan Seymour

CAPITAL THANKS!

THANK YOU FOR YOUR KIND COMMENT AND PRAISE FOR DEAN BEARDON SOPRANO PLAYER WITH OKEHAMPTON EXCELSIOR BAND @ THE FOURTH SECTION NATIONALS SOUTH WEST. THAT IS JUST THE SORT OF ENCOURAGEMENT THAT YOUNG PLAYERS OF HIS AGE NEED TO GO ON IN THEIR BAND CAREERS, WHEN SO MANY GIVE UP AT HIS AGE BECAUSE OF PEER PRESSURE. ONCE AGAIN WELL DONE FROM ALL LOWER SECTION BANDS.

OKEHAMPTON EXCELSIOR BAND

Where the Youth preview?

Where is the preview of the National Youth Finals?

Nigel Birch, Lions Youth Brass

4br reply:
The reason there's no preview is down to the fact
that the organisors have not sent any information through on either the contest or the performers.

I understand your disappointment, but unless we are sent any details there's little we can do. We will have someone at the contest on the weekend who
will report back though.

I suggest the Bands themselves ask the organisors why no press releases or communication has been made with the press to help promote the event.

Rankings reply to David Read (NTA)

David Read (not the adjudicator) makes an interesting point although I'm sure even he would admit that it's a fairly unlikely scenario. There have been instances of top 10 bands competing in minor contests where the 2nd highest ranked band in the contest has been considerably lower than them in the table. When this happens, the winner gets the full points on offer for that contest, around 24. Assuming that the result goes to form and the top 10 band wins then the 2nd placed band gets the same number of points they would have got for winning if the top 10 band wasn't competing. This progression continues down the prize list and no doubt seems reasonable to most.

Before Mr Read (nta) cries out in horror that the top 10 band aren't entitled to any credit for 'thrashing' considerably less accomplished bands, remember that even the 10th ranked band at the moment loses approximately 230 points per year by natural wastage. This means that they would need to attend and win about 13 equally spaced minor contests per year just to maintain their current points total. In the case of YBS it's almost 600 points a year and that would mean more than a contest every fortnight for them. It is inconceivable that any of them would actually do that, but the over-riding principal throughout the 4BarsRest ranking system is that bands that attend contests potentially get more credit than bands that don't. For the very highest bands though, a victory in a minor contest would represent a very small percentage of their points total, but it could be the difference between 1st and 2nd in the rankings. Of course there would be nothing to stop Faireys also entering the Clapham Junction Open if they were unduly worried about this, but I would suggest that any top 10 band that puts their reputation on the line at a minor contest is likely to have put in at least some extra work and would be entitled to the extra credit on offer that would allow them to maintain their points status for no more than about 3 or 4 weeks.

For anyone who is still with us, in the event of the Clapham Junction Town pulling off the biggest shock in history, then they would get the full points on offer, approximately 24. They've just beaten YBS, so why not? Whoever finishes 2nd would get the same points that they would normally get for finishing 2nd when a top 10 band is there, about 12. After all they've just finished 2nd to a band that are good enough to beat YBS!. This progression continues down the prize list.

It's fair to say that few top 10 bands compete in contests outside the recognised main events of British Open / Grand Shield, National / Regionals, European Championships, English Masters, Spennymoor and Scottish Open. Tredegar and Whitburn are two of the current top 10 that sometimes do and the above processes have to be applied on these occasions.

Please remember that the 4BRWR is an attempt to represent and compare the real results of band contests in figures. It is, however, very simple for anyone to arrive at a theoretical situation that would make the system unrepresentative of the real indications of quality. Someone once suggested that his band's Sunday night rehearsal was in fact an open contest which only ever had one entry and was judged every week by the Librarian, who always gave them first prize. He was wondering how many points they should be entitled to! This is clearly nonsense but is an indication of the lengths that can be gone to to test the limits of the system. Overall, we think we've made a pretty good job of representing the situation as it exists and see no reason to tamper with the system too much at the moment.

It would be possible to publish an approximation of points available for any contest if we know the competitors, but it is often impossible (unless we know the result beforehand!) to publish the exact points on offer before the event. In Major contests the points available are distributed according to a formula, but the destination of these points has an effect on regional (and national) multipliers, thus retrospectively affecting the points given for each area earlier in the year. Something for us to think about though, possibly in the near future.

JC

Euph case replaced

Thank you for printing my comment regarding the change of design of the Euph lyre point, since sending it Besson have admitted to placing it in the wrong place! (the case was not designed for that change hence the rip)

That said they very promptly replaced the instrument and case with a new one so it all ended well. It is a shame that Besson are still experiencing quality assurance issues as I find the Euphs (and in the past, the Horns) a delight to play,

Dave Woollam

Scottish Co-op relegation

In response to Chris Dale's comment that the Scottish Co-op Band were relegated ten years ago, I can advise that the Co-op were actually Scottish Champions in 1994, and were obviously not relegated.

You have to go back almost thirty years to find the last time that the Co-op were out of the top section, but the simple facts don't appear to be that relevant to Chris, as evidenced by the remainder of his confused email.

Andy Smith

McCann details

Great to read Ian Wilkinsons comments on Phil McCann and Yorkshire Imps. My Father , Ken Vine was Bass Trom with the Imps from 1960 to I think, 1963, and I remember as a kid going to listen to a rehearsal when Phil joined after dad left the band, which would have been in 1965, as we emigrated to Australia in early 1966.

Dad's best mate played with the Imps, Fred Bamford (father of Carl) and I well remember the glorious sound that Phil produced and it was very different!

Eric Vine

Registration rules

I am not at all surprised to hear about the 2 instances you have mentioned. Surely it is the responsibility of the British Brass Band Registry as part of the Federation to apply the rules relating to registering and transfering players.

Disputes between players and bands are a private matter between the parties concerned and neither the Registry or Regional Associations should become involved.

As I understand it, no band has the right to refuse a transfer request on any grounds at all.

Ken Taken

Shopping success and Legend praise

Just wanted to say thanks for a very speedy delivery of 2 fantastic cd's, Peter Roberts - Legend and Brass in Concert Live 2003, both ordered last Friday and arrived Monday morning, great service as ever.

I was at Spennymoor last year and thoroughly enjoyed the day, unfortunatley due to playing commitments I missed the first 3 bands, so its great to hear the best bits I missed.

And what can you say about the "Legend", a pleasure to listen to and an inspiration to all us lowly Soprano players. This is certainly the best CD I have bought for a while, I would say this is a must for all Brass Band lovers.

Allan Guy

And more praise...

What a sercive! Order placed in early hours of Sunday morning, goods received first post Monday morning.

David Senitt

More sympathy for Ashton

I also have sympathy for Ashton.

Would the same lack of action occur if it had not been a NAMED band playing the system?

How do Fodens feel not attending the nationals following this?

Ged Taggert.

Mr Jolly's comments...

Re: L&SC Regionals

I think you have centred that nail perfectly Mr Jolly and struck the head perfectly!

Phil Lawrence

Another view...

I was very taken aback to read Mr Peter Jolly's comments regarding the recent London and Southern Counties Regional Championships and in particular the band that I play for, Alliance Brass.

As Mr Jolly points out, everybody is entitled to their own opinion as he says, lively debate and differences of opinion are an integral part of banding?. However, I find his comments both disappointing and insulting.

I don't know if Mr Jolly is aware of the reasoning for Alliance Brass forming in the first place. A group of students at the Guildhall School of Music & Drama were frustrated at the lack of opportunities to play brass band music in London. No existing bands in the region had approached them to join so they decided to set up their own band, with a view to meeting a few times each year to perform quality brass band music at the highest level.

This meant that not only the players who already had a lot of banding experience (a small contingent of players in Alliance have played for some of the leading bands in the world, whom Mr Jolly likes to describe as "the big guns" i.e. Black Dyke, Faireys, Fodens, Grimethorpe, YBS etc.) could continue to play with a band whilst studying in London but also, and maybe more importantly, that the orchestral trained players (the majority of Alliance) who had never experienced performing in a brass band could do so and enjoy playing brass band music for the first time. Now the personnel of the band comprises mainly current and former students from both Guildhall and the Royal Academy of Music, the average age of the band being just 23.

In his retrospective article reporting for 4BarsRest.com, Malcolm Wood wrote for many of the audience, including 4BR, it was John Clark's band (Alliance) that had the edge and deserved to be the winners?

When the results were announced, my band were not disappointed about not winning, don't get me wrong, we would have loved to have won but we were extremely pleased with the way we played and qualification was an added bonus. How many bands can honestly say that? A number of people from the audience approached our players to congratulate us on our musical performance - that is good enough for me, we were happy and so were the audience. 4BR commented that it was a "magnificent performance" that had a "real musical shape".

Quite frankly I believe that Mr Jolly's negative attitude towards my band's "classical" sound is both small-minded and blinkered. For a start, I have played for Alliance now at a number of contests and believe that it's brass band sound has developed considerably over the past year. Having played for both brass bands and symphonic brass ensembles, I can safely say that Alliance's performance at the Areas sounded much more like the former rather than the latter.

I find Mr Jolly's comments such as "Though if memory serves, on the transcription of Enigma Variations at the finals last year the classical sound didn't cut much ice as they came 19th" and "I was under the impression that this is a brass band contest, not a "classical ensemble" contest" very cynical (and slightly bitter) indeed. What is Mr Jolly insinuating? That maybe the contest and the region would benefit if Alliance Brass did not take part? I would strongly disagree with this as I believe that Alliance's rise from forming 3 years ago to becoming finalists in the Championship section of the Nationals last year is a fantastic achievement that was acknowledge by 4BR when they nominated the band for a Newcomer of the Year award in 2003. Does this not raise the profile of banding in the South and also provide some healthy competition for the likes of traditional sounding bands such as Aveley & Newham and Redbridge?

My personal opinion is that I think Alliance have their own unique style and sound but because it maybe is different to some people's ears does this mean that it is necessarily wrong and Mr Jolly is entitled to criticize it? It is this kind of terribly narrow-minded attitude that drives away many young players from brass bands and discourages the organic development of the banding movement, causing it to remain in the last century, and ultimately, to die out. Surely, as with any musical movement, the number one priority should be the music?

I look forward to Mr Jolly's reply regarding this matter, let the lively debate continue.

David Geoghegan

Bass solos...

How about...

Hock
The Sun Has Got His Hat On
Frosty the Snowman (steal the Bass Trombone Solo part and play the full cadenza...)
Bass in the Ballroom
Tuba Concerto by Gordon Jacob

William Elsom

More bass solos...

In reply to Kirsty Adams' request may I suggest our publication of "Nellie The Elephant" arranged by Martin Pearce. It can be ordered directly from us (07751 622780 or www.mmi-music.co.uk) or from distributors like Just Music or Band Supplies.

Nigel Hall

And more...

Kirsty

Eb Bass solos to play with 4th section band? Bass in the Ballroom is of course the classic, or try one called Mein Bass (Hallamshire Music) - simple band parts and lots of scope to show off as a soloist.

Steve Earley

Fuddy-duddy thoughts...

As an old 'fuddy-duddy' (75 this year!!) I thought it might be interesting to find out amongst the younger end in the brass band world, what they think about some of the pieces we used to play, as a Championship Section Band, say, 40 or 50 years ago.

I am thinking particularly about the faster, more hectic, crowd pleasing pieces that seem to have survived the passage of time. When it comes to prestissimo, and running passages which are 'under the fingers', I still have three favourites which were always a challenge;

1. Glinka's 'Ruslan & Ludmilla' Overture;
2. Berlioz's 'Le Corsair' Overture;
3. Tschaikovsky's March (final movement of his 4th Symphony).

Have our younger players found anything in the more modern repertoire to match these for speed and/or quality of writing/arranging? (Yes, I know about Howard Snell's arrangements of Wagner pieces). And where did Tschaikovsky's 'Italian Caprice' disappear to?

These are just pieces off the top of my head, but the point I am trying to make is that there must be many, many more similar 'war-horses' lying dormant in band-room libraries, that the younger end have never had the pleasure of tasting, and that many older attenders of concerts would love to hear again.

One of the best guys I have known for digging this kind of music out and making a success of it is Richard Evans. He had a real knack for it. Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of the more contemporary music, but there is something very satisfying about finishing a piece on a rousing, fortissimo, major, full-band chord !!!

OK, youngsters, tell me I'm wrong and that music has moved on, but what are YOUR favourite brass band originals or arrangements of today?

I'm not talking about 'test-pieces', just your ordinary concert stuff, but with some real 'meat' in them and (as we say oop 'North) " it'll stand some welly !!" (Tastefully done, of course !!!)

Stan C Wood

Congratulations..

Ju

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