Comments ~ 2004: January

Comments from January 2004

Adjudicating Responsibilities

I do hope that the Adjudicators at this years round of Area Contests intend to take their responsibilities seriously and grade every band that comes under their scrutiny in the appropiate position according to it's ability in relation to the other competitors.

A casual attitude towards the lower placings can have a devastating effect where gradings are concerned. The difference between a 7th and a 9th placing can be crucial.

These days, the Adjudicator must be aware that he/she is not just employed to pick the bands that qualify for the National Finals - the job now is to grade every band band in that section as to its relative ability on that piece on that day.
They had it easy in the old days, pick the top three and that was it ! - You earn your "Brass" these days lads !!!

Ian C. Wilkinson

Variations on a Judge

The subject of adjudication has, and probably, to a greater or lesser extent, always will be. That said however I endorse David Bishops sentiments, having given the matter some condiserable thought over the years and arrived at similar conclusions.

The two main areas of controversy hinge on the subjective element of adjudication & seeming variance between adjudicators summing up comments, the written adjudication comments and the final placings or points awarded. E.G. An adjudicator may in his summing up remark that many bands were unbalanced and a band on reading their crit afterwards find that the balance of their band received favourable comment but are still well down the list. Of course they are going to wonder why.

It would be a safe bet indeed that a perfect system of adjudication that pleases everybody will never come to pass. That is not to say it can't be improved and, I beleive, Davids' proposals have some merit, particulary with a view to providing transparancy and minimising subjectivity to some degree at least.

Personally I would like to see some standardisation with regard to adjudication starting with the adjudicators remarks sheets. I would propose the following.

The remark sheet had five boxes each worth 20 points max. giving a total possible of 100. Each box is headed as follows, but not necessarily in this order. Intonation, Balance, Technique, Interpretation, Sound Quality and the adjudicator has to award points out of 20 for each.

This would give a band a much better idea of what went right or wrong for them on the day e.g. our imaginary band alluded to above may have had 17 out of 20 for balance, 16 for Technique, 18 for Sound Quality but perhaps only 12 for intonation and say eight for interpretation thus it would be clear what needs to be worked on.

Over time, any band could, by analysing their results and marking spot a trend. Different judges, different pieces but consistently marked down on one or more elements.

On the question of interpretation, probably the most subjective element of all, many bands feel they, or another band ought to have been placed higher because, "they played really well" and wonder if Van Gogh was in the box. The crit for the respective band may fault the interpretation. The question is, should a band be marked well down for, "poor interpretation" of the piece when a) this is probably the most subjective element of all and b) the conductor, or MD represents on simple numbers, one 25th to one 30th of the whole?

The breaking down of the different elements should, as David points out, actually make it easier for an adjudicator to compare and separate different performances as after deciding on an allocation he also has to justify it, if only to himself. This concentrates the mind.

I would like to say that it does not, of course, have to be five elements, it could be more or less. It does not have to be the titles as outlined above, e.g. you could substitute musicality or artistic impression for technique, or have all. Each element does not need to have the same number of points, perhaps intonation is considered more important than another element or perhaps interpretation could be given more or less points than something else.

A further refinement would be to qualify the total marks, eg 90 - 100 being Distinction, 80 - 90 being Excellent, 70 - 80 being good and so on.

The above, if implemented, in some shape or form would, of necessity, need to be after due consideration by our governing bodies i.e. which categories would you include, what weighting would you attach to each etc? Furthermore it ought to, for consistency, be rolled out and adopted by all official contests.

In conclusion however I would like to say this in our desire for clarity and transparancy of adjudication, it is imperative that whatever change, if any, comes about, that such, change does not lead to performances become robotic, dull and unimaginative.

How often have we been unmoved by a technically perfect performance and yet thrilled by some less so.

Angus Naples

What about us Whipper Snappers!

I am interested by the recent correspondence regarding the average age of our adjudicators.
Amongst the ranks of the association (ABBA) I am certainly one of the youngest (a staggering 45 next month). My friend Duncan Beckley is the same age as is Garry Cutt (I think). Ian Brownbill, Steve Tighe and Chris Wormald are a bit younger but I'm afraid I can't think of anybody more youthful other than Mike Fowles - please correct me if I'm wrong.
Hang on a minute, surely Dave Lancaster who is judging this year's 4th section at the Yorkshire Area cannot be as old as me?!

I'm afraid the trouble is some of us young whipper-snappers (45 ? young??) hold some slightly controversial, possibly unpalatable views for the older end - witness my presentation last year to the association on mute abuse and blatant part swapping that went down like the proverbial... etc etc

That apart, I do think the Yorks, North West and Northern Areas have been pretty generous to us young pretenders in the last 2 or 3 years and should be encouraged to continue with their policies!

John Roberts
age still only 44...

We want the Classics!

The reason why people are losing interest in the Brass Festival Weekend is because people want the good ol' classics! People don't wanna fork out money to go and listen to new and contemporary pieces of music by composers they've never heard of. We want 'Resurgam', 'Life Divine' and 'Connotations' etc. We want assurance that we're going to enjoy the show and if this means churning out the same old then so be it. Thats how we like it!

Jo Moss

P.S Great site, but get some good interviews and reviews (specifically...for trombone) happening. Please! x

The Pink Panther anyone?

Do you happen to have, or know where I could find, an email address to get in contact with Michael Antrobus? am trying to find if his arrangement of 'The Pink Panther' has been published or not, or where i could get hold of it.

Iain Maxwell

4BR Reply:
Anyone out there who can help?

Harrisons Dream - on a phone?

Do you know where I can buy brass band ringtones for my mobile phone? I'd love to get hold of Harrison's Dream!!!!

Gareth Joice

Can you hear an "Echo"?

I hope that you do not mind me contacting you but I am doing so to ask for your assistance if possible.

I am in the final stages of organising a concert at St. Johns Church, Elmswell (near Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk) to take place on Saturday 21st February at 7.30pm. This concert is in aid of the charity ‘ECHO' (Evelina Childrens Heart Organisation); a little-known charity that assists the ‘heart children' (that is children born with congenital heart defects) that are treated at Guys Hospital in London, and their families.

They do this by providing toys etc. for the heart wards at Guys and then after the children have been discharged with a large support network and events such as Christmas parties etc. This is a charity very close to my family as my own son, James, was born in 2001 with a heart defect. This was so serious that, at two weeks old, we nearly lost him. Had it not been for the care and skill of the doctors, nurses and surgeons at the West Suffolk Hospital and Guys Hospital what could have happened would not bear thinking about.

James is now 2½ and absolutely fine but the time we spent down in London was the most stressful and terrifying time of my life. Echo were there for us when we needed them and this concert is my way of trying to repay something back to them.

I have contacted some of my musical friends and ‘pulled together' what I think will be a fantastic concert billed as "An Evening of Brass and Voices". The groups that will be performing are the Euphoria Tuba Quartet, the Nota Bene Acapella Ensemble and, the main group, a ten-piece brass ensemble made up of all the principal players of the Travelsphere Holidays Band. Indeed, as part of the evening, the Travelsphere ensemble will be giving a premiere performance of "A Lullaby for James".

This piece has a story behind it as, being a musician, the best way I could let out some of my emotions for my son was to write a melody for him. This melody has been taken by my friend, colleague, and highly respected composer Andy Duncan and used as a basis for this work so it has a particular special place in my heart. Indeed, as well as performing in the Tuba Quartet, I will get the honour of conducting the brass ensemble for the evening and, hence, conducting this piece.

Because this area of South Norfolk/Suffolk is highly musical I was wondering whether you may be able to assist me in some way with some promotion of this concert in the form of a mention within your publication. I must say that my wife and I are keen to keep James and his past out of the ‘public eye' as much as possible but any assistance or article you feel you may be willing to do would be greatly appreciated.

As I said, I hope that you do not mind me contacting you ‘off the cuff' like this but I am keen to make this concert as much of a success as possible for the sake of the charity. Should you have any further queries regarding the event please do not hesitate to contact me via one of the below means.

Best regards and many thanks in advance for any assistance you can give.


Robin Norman

4BR Reply:
Hope this has been of use.

A little issue with the judge

I read with interest the summary of the report by Derek Broadbent and welcome many of the thoughts and more especially the actions. However may I take issue with the 'Notes and single score' that is advocated.

Out side of the 'band world' the breaking down of performance into discreet measurable outcomes is common practise. By doing so one can measure success in given areas. This can easily be transcribed to adjudication through a list of criteria and some simple way of giving feedback. e.g. (not the only answer)

Tuning Good/ Satisfactory/ Needs some attention/ Needs work
Balance Good/ Satisfactory/ Needs some attention/ Needs work. Etc.

It may be possible to score each defined area and add an overall impression. Thus arriving at a final mark. This would give good feed back to bands (could add Needs some attention lower band). With a short statement at the end to help both the
adjudication and the feed back. This would allow the adjudicator to concentrate on the primary function i.e. the performance and still give specific feedback (the secondary function).

It has always worried me that whilst an adjudicator is writing they are missing vital parts of the performance. Not many adjudicators can write, think of comments, concentrate on the score, and turn pages of the score. You may argue that experienced adjudicators will have a series of
'stock' statements they can write. My answer to that is 'that's what the table above would provide'.

Finally on the 'moderation' of adjudication and adjudicators a series of judgements against set criteria as set out above would enable (as in football) for the adjudicator to be judged by the Association of Brass Band Adjudicators representative.

For me the words Clear and Transparent
adjudication is vital. Knowing how the judgement
was arrived at even when disagreeing will negate many of the current criticisms.

David Bishop - Rowe
Headteacher
Sutton School

Lets be bold at the Areas

I come belatedly to the recent discussion about permitting the top 8 to pre-qualify for the following years National Final.

I have mixed feelings about this as on the one hand the areas is one time each year where you can guarantee rubbing shoulders with the big guns in your area. It helps to draw the audiences in to the halls to hear their performances - and some stay on for a few following performances. On the
other hand if you draw next to one of those same big guns - and they're on good form then it can make those adjacent performances seem mediocre
by comparison. This can result in fair performances being rated poorly by the judges in comparison to other performances more distant from the outstanding ones (if any of this makes any sense).

A NW area with a Fairies or a Fodens would seem strange at first but would create a fascinating, but much more even contest. Would Leyland retain their crown as the best of the rest or would my own band Wingates and the likes of our other neighbours and good rival Besses grab that crown? It is possible that Haydock could consolidate on their result of last year and prove that it was no fluke, Freckleton can play a mean band when they're up for it and any band conducted by Dennis Hadfield (in this case Dobcross) can guarantee a strong performance that will take some beating.

For me it would make the NW area for one more interesting if the big fish weren't there and I guess other areas could make similar claims. Yorkshire has tremendous strength in depth - arguably much more so than the North West, especially when you consider the quality of the revitalised Sellers, a
Skelmanthorpe eager to build on the fantastic successes of last year (they were my band of the year last year), Yorkshire Imps and Stocksbridge... not to mention those unlucky members of the big fish who haven't pre-qualified. It'd be fascinating!

My knowledge of other areas is nowhere near as good so I can't comment on them, but it's rare that Wales and Scotland aren't represented in the top 8 at the Nationals (when they're not actually winning it) - and certain bands in the Midlands would be keen to get a mention as well! So I think I've convinced myself.

Perhaps there is a good way forward in saying that such a system could be implemented next year based on the results of this years Nationals, and it would be a 3 year experiment. Criteria could be published against which the success or otherwise of this would be measured (as happens in business) -
like such things as attendance at the contest, revenues, etc. and then we can decide to keep it or scrap it. Let's be bold for once!

Andy Wyatt

Leave the Areas Alone!

The great beauty of the National Finals is that people need to qualify for them giving all bands hope of performing at the highest level. The fact that some bands do not rise to the challenge is not a reason for changing the current system. To change the qualifying system would give us another Open or English Masters (the latter getting too many ranking points for what is a closed competition … to the Welsh and the Scots that is!) something that we do not need. If bands fail to get through their regions due to inconsistent adjudication what is the problem. Doesn't inconsistent adjudication happen all the time?

In my opinion leave this contest alone!

Jim Corrigan

Don't make the Areas a mockery

I agree that the "four invited bands" rule at the Nationals makes it meaningless for the champion bands to compete at the Regionals. But removing the best bands from the Regionals makes a mockery of those eight contests. In the same way: if Manchester United and Chelsea pulled out of the English league to compete solely in Europe, I'm sure you'd agree, that's not good for English football. Can you imagine how incensed we'd all get if Alex Ferguson talked about it being too expensive to compete with the tin pot local clubs as well?

I'm not against adding Regional workshops and concerts by the champion bands, but this is no replacement for a proper Regional competition with all the bands.

If you are so keen on Proportional Representation, why not just award the home Regions of the National winning bands the extra invites instead of the bands themselves? So if Yorkshire had two bands in the top four at the Nationals, then the following year Yorkshire would send their top
four bands to the Nationals.

Next month you'll be calling for the top three winning European bands to be exempt from competing at the Nationals!

David Read (not the adjudicator)

The smell of old age?

Lewis Edney (Alliance Brass) is quite right about using the same adjudicators for the areas in London and Yorkshire. I know it ISN'T cheating, but to me it's not 'quite cricket' as there is an advantage to be gained. Perhaps there should be a directive which advises against this practice and therefore be above suspicion.

I recall reading on your pages last year, that the same adjudicator and pieces were used in the Midlands Area and at an Association contest the month before AND that the area result was very similar to the preceding contest. Again I stress it's NOT cheating but there is a strong smell of suspicion - wouldn't you agree?

However, this is not a recent phenomenon. I do not remember the exact details but during the 1980's an adjudicator at one Area Contest was conducting a band in the same section in another area. After this adjudicator had delivered his result there was a rumour that final placings meant that this
adjudicators band did not have to face the best competition.

Working with young people (as I have done) we were always told to protect ourselves from false accusation. Whilst, to some, an area contest might be seen as a trivial matter it is the most important contest of the year and many people put in a lot of time and effort, surely it is not to much to ask that ALL bands compete on a level playing field.

Ron Barnes, CROYDON.

Retirement age?

I would just like to add a word of support to Martin Woods' comments regarding old adjudicators.

In my view, the engagement of adjudicators over the age of 65 should be the exception rather than the rule. Adjudicators aged over 70 or even 80 should be almost unheard of. Unfortunately, while there are some notable exceptions, too many of our contests are judged by people who in any other walk of life would have been pensioned off years ago. It simply is not medically plausible for a 70 or 80 year old to have the faculties of concentration, hearing and stamina required to judge a major contest effectively (subject, perhaps, to the odd very exceptional case).

I am very encouraged by the ABBA's openness in sharing details of its AGM with us. Over the next year I would like to see the Association focus in
particular on encouraging and supporting younger adjudicators. At the same time, I would urge administrators and contest promoters, please, to move away from the same very old faces which turn up time and time again at our contests.

Edward Allen

No BBC but not much of an audience as well

I was fortunate to attend both the Friday and Saturday concerts at the RNCM Festival of Brass last weekend: once again it was a great weekend and my thanks goes out to the organisers, promoters and artists who made it so enjoyable and fulfilling.

The highlight for me was the incredible performance by Fairey Fp of Heatons 'Variations', where the music, playing and direction was of the very highest standard and rightly received a massive ovation. What a shame that more people were not there to see it! The hall was approximately half full for that concert and given that some of those in attendance would have been RNCM staff, students and supporters of the band (who follow them everywhere regardless of the occasion?)

I am left to assume that the remaining number of approx 150 (in my estimation) represented the rest of the UK banding 'support'. The trend was the same for the other concerts I attended on the Friday and Saturday evenings. I gather the only time the hall was full was for the appearance of the Black Dyke Band on the Sunday night.

It would seem that the some of the worlds finest bands, conductors and music all performed in an intimate venue with terrific acoustic is not enough of an enticement for the banding public in the UK. I know that we in this country are spoilt and that the worlds best bands are never too far away for us to hear them throughout the year, but taking this into consideration, the attendance and general level of support was very poor.

If this festival had been held in Norway or North America, I would be interested to know how many times an RNCM-sized hall would have sold out.

I actually wrote a letter to the Radio 3 controller to express my disappointment at the fact they were not to broadcast the Festival and also to argue that they do not support or promote the Brass Band Movement in their schedules. However, upon writing the letter, I had to ask myself, if the banding public is not willing to support such events, how can we expect the BBC to?

John Ward

Butlins Cup found?

I too was a member of the winning Tredegar Junior Band, and very proud of it. I beleive the trophy for this contest was used at the Butlins Brass Band Champioships this year at Skegness. I think it was used for the Entertainment Contest held on the Sunday for Championship Section Bands.

Melanie Kennedy

Found and presented once again

Just been reading through the site and noticed the article asking what happened to the old Butlins Youth Band trophy.

You may remember that at the Butlins Mineworkers last year we had a special prize and trophy for the most entertaining championship section band. The trophy we presented was the old youth band cup. It had been sitting in the Butlins archive for many years from where I collected it personally and restored it to it's former glory. The archive also has some interesting bits and pieces including several photographs from those days.

It is a magnificent trophy and the lady asking the question is quite right in assuming that it is worth a few bob - it is insured for ..... well I couldn't possibly say other than it is currently in the care of the current holders Ever Ready and will be once again up for grabs when the contest next takes place in Jan 2005.

Steve Walker
(Mineworkers Organiser on behalf of Butlins)

Will 4 be allowed?

Not a comment as such more of a question, at the area the 1st section piece is Coventry
Variations, do we know as yet whether all 4 percussionists will be allowed to play if a band has 4 players available. The piece does require four players and it would be a shame for those bands who have found four players not to be able to show the full extent of the percussion. Here's hoping the powers that be make the right decision...

Craig Harper (possible 4th percussionist)

4BR Reply:
We don't know ourselves, but a quick call to your Regional Secretary may solve the query.

Lift to Yeovil anyone?

Is there anyone from Cornwall want a lift to the Yeovil Contest,as the Hayle Band have a coach going from a Hayle,no tickets for the contest but if you would like a lift with the maddest band in Cornwall !!!!! then contact Derekbrass76@aol.com or 01326 569299 for more info.

As always great site
Derek Johnston Hayle Band.

Help no longer need thanks

Thank you very much for all of your time, but I am no longer focusing my dissertation on the Parc and Dare Band, because all of the bands records are in the Treorchy library, which is closed indefinately. I will no longer be needing my enquiry on the comments page - sorry to cause any problems and change my mind, but thank you very much.

Nicole Lyons

Looking for a Contest

Do you have a section where we could look up forthcoming contests that might be worth entering. We want to add one to this year and it would be nice to be able to see a good choice displayed together somewhere.

Sian Buss

4BR Reply:
We have got a section on the site that deals with forthcoming contests Sian. Look at the home page and have a little wander.......

Looking for Mr Arban

My daughter has been advised that she should buy the "Arban Book" for cornet. I have looked on the net but have not found a copy specifically for cornet, being musically inept but wishing to help my daughter can you help me to find what I am looking for? EG correct mane, publisher

G. Havard

4BR Reply:
The Arban is not just for cornet players Mr Havard, although it is subtitled the "Cornet Method". Any reputable music publisher will be able to sell you a copy. Just ring and ask for the "Arban" and we are sure they will help you. It is a tad expensive, but should last a lifetime and take a lifetime to master.

Getting rid of the "dead wood"

Well done 4BR! Your idea of letting the eight best bands at the previous year's contest pre qualify for the National Finals is the right way to go for me.

It should ensure that the best bands in the country will be represented at the Finals each year, whilst it will certainly spice up the Regional contests.

Some may complain that it will only mean one band from the London Area getting through, but what the hell! If they are good enough, then they will come in the top 8 and pre qualify!

It's about time the Nationals started getting rid of the "dead wood".

Paul Kingston
Cambridge

Our bands are better than your bands

I would like to point out to Mr Hobson that Scottish Bands have won the National Finals on more occasions than Welsh bands in recent years (CWS Glasgow 1990, 1996) . As for a top placing, 1997 saw Kirkintilloch come fourth playing On Alderly Edge, the Co-op were 6th in 2000 off a number one draw, Whitburn second at the Open, Co-op third a few times at the Open...

And to Mr Fordham, aka Calimero (it's an injustice!), blahblah sour blahblah grapes blahblah entitled blahblah opinion blahblah bad result blahblah we've all had them blahblah heard it all before blahblah sucks don't it?!

As for eight bands bands prequalifying - good idea, but why should they miss the regionals? To be fair, the majority of the bands that appear consistantly in the top four at the moment have a lot of sponsorship, and don't compete in many other contests throughout the year. Coupling this with the profits from the numerous concerts they give, why should they complain about financial hardships??

For me, the nationals are the nationals, why change the rules. The 18 or so bands may not be the best in the country, but then again, if these bands that 'should' be there were so much better, they would have qualified in the first place. Also, the Open has all the best bands competing, so why complain?

Wales and Scotland already have their European qualifiers determined at their respective regionals, England should get theirs from the Masters. The 'British' Championships should be held at the RAH with four Scottish, four Welsh and say ten English bands to take cognisence of their greater population. Best to get the winners of the Masters to go to the Europeans because all to often the Yorkshire bands don't win at the Albert Ha!l as often as everybody thinks they should!

L. Harrison
Glasgow

Giving up the fags

Got home last night at 10:00pm having done my first concert of the year (in Wingates Village Club) ...and I stunk like an over-used ash tray. ..had to have a shower before bed!

Yes the concert was in a club type environment where the audience is permitted to smoke whilst the band plays.

Well this player for one hereby withdraws his services from concerts that involves playing in smoky environments. It's simply not fair, especially given the throughput of air in and out of a brass players lungs to expect people to endure this extreme form of passive smoking.

I call on the impresarios responsible for running concerts in places like Dobcross Band Club, Glossop Band Club and similar venues to clarify their smoking policies - and ban smoking when concerts are taking place if they haven't already. In addition I am going to lean on my own band to do the
same for concerts we promote ourselves.

Come on it's 2004 and we all know smoking kills - let's do our bit for health of our movement - literally!

Andy Wyatt

The same old faces

I see AGAIN that the Yorkshire areas and London areas are both using the same adjudicator in Roy Roe. Are there not enough knowledgeable and talented brass musicians in this country so that each contest has a different adjudicator?

It might not seem like a big deal but an adjudicator is obviously looking for a particular type of
performance and if that adjudicator is at two areas the second area bands can then based there performance on the winning band from the first (I hope everybody is keeping up!). Doesn't it send out the wrong message? The last 3 years London has had this happen, it doesn't seem to happen to any other area. 2002 our adjudicator had also done Yorkshire and last year it was Alan Morrison, ok he hadn't adjudicator another area but he had played at one and had an interpretation of the piece!

It doesn't seem to be an issue to anyone else but then this is what your comments is for!

Lewis Edney
Alliance Brass

Big Bands do care

In answer to the "comments article" by Mr Darryl Hobson. Foden's and Fairey "did"offer to run a concert as an alternative to going to the AREA (when they had both pre qualified for the Finals in London), giving all the procedes to the competition in order to benefit bands from the lower sections.

This offer was turned down by the North West area committee, reason being " not got time to put this into operation"

We did try sir, so don't have a do at the bands, may I suggest though you have a go at the organisers.

Alan Wycherley

"Age shall not weary them" - or not as the case may be

I mean no disrespect to anybody in particular however it does seem that most of our adjudicators here in the UK are knocking on a bit! Actually most of them are in their 70's and 80's in some cases. I'm not quite that old yet however I think that I would have trouble sitting in a confined space, concentrating, listening intently for up to 8 hours at a time and still be able to judge a band at 6pm as I would a band playing at 10am.

In recent years their does seem to be an increasing number of results that perhaps the audiences haven't agreed with such as Black Dyke at the Area, YBS at the Nationals when they came 17th on Harrison's Dream and Fodens at the Open on Les Preludes (which incidentally I believe is the most stunningly musical performance I have ever heard!).

I wonder if there is any medical research on how long a person can sustain concentration with age?

Martin Woods

4BR Reply:
In defence of the judges though - the Scottish Open had a young panel in Robert Childs, Ian Brownbill and Stephen Roberts, whilst Bradford last year was judges by Goff Richards (not pensioner age for sure).

The ABBA are certainly more progressive nowadays and are looking at many aspects of adjudication, so perhaps the arguement you put forward will be looked at in the future by them.

American Civil War

What is all the hoopla all about this band from Florida? (Central Florida?). They achieved absolutely nothing! Why are they getting all the press? They could not hold there own to the likes of the Illinois Brass Band or the Band from Columbus. If fact they never have beaten them head to head at a "real" competition.

We shall see what happens at this years North American Championship this spring!

John Hershey
Arlington Heights. IL USA

4BR Reply:
We will indeed wait and see! Great how only an American can use the word "hoopla" though isn't it.

Agony Aunt needed

As an avid reader I have really enjoyed the articles " How to make a CD" by Trevor Caffull. Is there, and when can we expect part 3, the producer and editor, and hopefully on to the marketing and distribution and sales part. It is very clear and informative, and can be adapted to many other groups and solo artists.

How about a "help, or agony column"? Where people can ask the professionals about problems or just good clean gossip?

Please keep up the great work, its great to be able to keep up with the many "goings on" in England.

Ken MacDonald
Australia

4BR Reply:
It will be coming up in the next month or so Ken - We promise you. As for the Agony Aunt though - we are looking for a brass band version of Marge Proops as we speak.

A Tall order

I know it is a tall order but what are the chances of including the test pieces played when reporting on own choice test contest results. We're having a good old session on "the Mouthpiece" about what is played and it would be interesting to see which pieces are popular etc.

Dave Neil

4BR Reply:
We will try Dave, but the problem is that we rely on much of the information about contest results from the organisers themselves, and at "own choice" contests we tend to get only the basic results info sent to us, and not what the bands actually played.

Parc and Dare anyone?

I was hoping that you might be able to help me. I am currently writing a dissertation for my final year
as a music student at Goldsmiths College, University of London. It will look at the Parc and Dare Brass Band. The essay will be split into three sections, the first will explore the general history of brass bands and how they came about particularly looking at the history of bands in South Wales.

The second section focuses in on the specific history of Parc and Dare. Then the last section will contain information from interviews I will conduct with members of the band, about what it is like to be a member of a brass band, how it has changed and how Parc and Dare compares to other bands. I was wondering if you have any articles that may help me in writing my dissertation or if you know of anyone else that I could ask about this subject.

Nicole Lyons
Nicwave@aol.com

4BR Reply:
If anyone knows anything, please contact Nicole direct.

Any old Grangemoorians out there?

Grangemoor Brass Band will be celebrating its 150th anniversary this year and are hoping that through 4bars rest we can reach all ex players and conductors to contact the band through its web site and hopefuly join us in a massed band concert some time later in the year.

Andy Carr

4BR Reply:
Anyone out there?

You have to pay for great Body

So 4BR thinks bandmen and women will put their hands in their pockets to pay for a National body? Come off it! Who would we employ? The usual people seem to get the top jobs, and they would be the ones who would want to run the brass band world, so nothing would change. Bands can't afford it, and to be brutally honest, I don't think they really care. At the rate we are going at the moment, there will be 50% less bands around in 10 years time anyway – it is too expensive for bands to survive on the poor prize money that is available at contests, and the general public still think of us as Sunday bandstand entertainment.

Jill Passmore.

The Way Forward - led by 4BR!

A National body paid for by the players for the players is defiantly the way forward – but is there someone out there who has the vision and the time and energy to overcome the apathy as you rightly put it that is so endemic in our movement? 4BR – this is your quest! Save the brass band movement in the UK before it finally goes down the tubes through the meddling of well meaning amateurs.

Dr Chris Roberts
Bristol

Eight of the Best - sounds good

Just read you latest idea for the National Finals, and I must agree with you. It is about time we had the best bands in the land at the London Finals. The Regional Champiopnships are ruined year after year by incompetent judges ensuring that the wrong bands get to the Finals, so having eight bands pre qualify is the right idea. Getting them then to help out at the Regionals may be a bit harder (most players in top section bands are in it for themselves rather than to help others), but I like the idea though.

M. Fordham
Bridgewater

The Flying Pigs!

Getting the top bands in the country to help out at the Regional Championships would be a great idea – but do you honestly think they would want to do it? The Welsh I think would - they like to look after their own and anything to put one over the English seems to enthuse them. The Scots maybe – if they ever get a band in the top four at London (when was the last time eh?). The English though – NO! Getting old rivals like Dyke and Brighouse, Fodens and Fairey's to do something together for the benefit for others and not themselves – wait for the flying pigs! Like the thinking though lads!

Darryl Hobson
Newmarket

The secret to becoming a great player is.......

I have over the Christmas break thoroughly enjoyed listening to the latest CD of my ever expanding collection 'Art of the States' by Eikanger. I totally agree with the comments expressed in your CD review which I now peruse prior to making any purchase. The quality of playing is truly fantastic and programme content very entertaining.

I consider them worthy candidates of a 'Brass in Concert' prize should the invite go overseas and consider that 'Johnny Foreigner' has now thrown down the gauntlet in terms of musicality, programme content and direction of the movement simply in this state of the art showcase - Art of the States.

Well done also to Martin Winter on collecting the solo CD award. I personally voted for Rod Franks for his 'Saving Face' album purely upon the story of having to learn to play again after surgery and gaining such a high level of performance. It wasn't until I clicked the 'submit' button that I remembered a similar story to Martin Winter when he was Principal Cornet as Desford. I recall that he too had to retrain himself to play again after a car accident. Is this the integral ingredient of becoming a magnificent player?

Simon Oates
Soprano, Lincoln

Mischief Makers!

So you have been at the mischief making again haven't you? Loved the marks given to the bands in the 4BR classroom. Keep up the good work and it is nice to see people ready and brave enough to dish out some proper criticism.

Mr P. Eggleton

Norway starts to book its own

Two years after the Norwegian Band Federation publicly criticized the Norwegian Championship section Brass Bands for choosing UK conductors only, things have started to change… Only two British conductors, one Australian and one Danish. The rest are Norwegian. A coincidence?

Maybe – the band federation had to change the weekend for the Nationals at a late stage (mid summer ‘03?) and many bands found it difficult to get their conductors for a weekend later than originally scheduled. But many of the bands now also have voluntarily chosen to do something "new" – this could also be related to the choice of a very modern and different Norwegian test piece.

J.P. Harnevik

Oscars!

Will the winners of your 4BR Awards be getting any prizes then? It would be nice if they had something to show the grandchildren and supporters that they won the Brass Band World equivalent of an Oscar!

Brendan O'Leary
Ipswich

4BR Reply:
We will be making presentations as soon as we can - so the prize winners can expect something to hang on their wall!

The Missing Butlins Cup?

Can 4BR tell me what ever happened to Butlins Youth Brass Band Championship Trophy? It was a great cup, and I was fortunate to be a member of a winning band many years ago. It had to be kept in the local bank because our secretary was so afraid it would be pinched from his house! It was worth a few bob as well as it was solid silver, so what became of it and did the last winners get to keep it?

Helen Thomas

4BR Reply:
We too would like to know what became of the trophy as the 4BR Editor was a member of the Tredegar Band that won the inaugural title back in 1974 and retained it agin in 1975 (he was very, very young he says). We don't know if it is still around, so if anyone knows please drop us a line.

And the Steelmen?

Can anyone tell me what ever happened to BSC Port Talbot Band? I played with them during the 70's and 80's but have heard nothing of them for years. Any news would be great.

Chris Painter

4BR Reply:
The band was still going a few years ago and in fact won the Welsh Regional Championship Second Section in 1992 after becoming National Third Section Champions the year before under E. Clark. They last competed at the Regional Championships in 1998. After that things went rather quiet and we think they are no longer competing or if they are still going as an organisation.

The Artist fomally known as ........

Hi this is the artist formerly known as Matt Hall, there was a typing error in the programme for the Wingates concert at Parr Hall in Warrington. My name is Matt Hill. Many thanks anyway for the nice comments.

Matt Hill

4BR Reply:
Sorry!

Top of the Class!

Loved the end of term reports for the top 25 bands lads! However, I think you were a little harsh on one or two of the "lesser name" bands and a little bit too complimentary on the so called "bigger names".

Are you in any way afraid of their parents coming to the 4BR school and "discussing" how their child has done?

Peter James

Bring back corporal punishment!

Well done for publishing your End of Term Reports on the bands - really liked the approach as it summed up their efforts just right. Nice to see you pick out some of bands for their efforts, but couldn't you have been a bit harsher on the ones who were certainly slacking during 2003. Bringing back the cane for one or two serious offenders might just be the trick!

Carl Leighton
Bolton

Well done to the Award Winners

It is not often that I agree with 4BR (although I always enjoy your comments) but I must say you were spot on when choosing your award winners for 2003. YBS were without doubt the best band, as was Dr King. Martin Winter was a class apart, whilst nice to see someone like yourselves reward the efforts of the lower section bands.

I even agreed about the test piece and CD! Keep it up!

Dr R Pullman

Creeps!

Why is it that all your awards go to the most well known people in the banding movement? Don't you look further than David King, the Childs brothers or the top ten bands in the country. There are plenty of other bands out there which you don't seem capable of even acknowledging.

Jennifer Young

A Thankyou From Smithills!

May I take this opportunity to say a huge 'thank you' to everyone who voted for Smithills in the 4BR Awards announced on Christmas Day. I must also thank everyone involved at 4BR for shortlisting Smithills for an award in the first instance - that in itself was a real honour!

For Smithills to actually win the 'Lower Section Band of The Year 2003' award is wonderful and without doubt the best possible way to finish an incredible year for the band. We have performed in the Royal Albert Hall and Royal Festival Halls in London once again, flown out to New Zealand for a three week tour to follow on from Japan and the USA in recent years and the band remains undefeated in contests once again since February. To have won at the National Festival of Music For Youth in the Royal Festival Hall for the third year running and the fifth time in the last six years was, without doubt, the highest point of all.

Thank you to everyone who registered a vote. For Smithills to apparently achieve 42% of the 12,000 votes cast (over 5,000!) is bewildering, as not only does this mean an incredible number of votes were cast on behalf of our youngsters but this was the identical percentage who voted for the mighty (and completely deserving) YBS who took the top award. Thank you to everyone responsible!

May I pass on the sincere congratulations of everyone involved at Smithills to all of the highly deserving 4BR award winners and nominees and wish all visitors to the 4BR site a very happy, healthy and successful 2004.

Many thanks again,
Chris Wormald

2003 Scottish Open (or closed even)

With reference to the above article on your website - Perhaps Scotland would have supported the contest had it actually been advertised. The contest was not even advertised on the Royal Concert Halls website, let alone local newspapers etc.

Michele James

Why Winter then?

I'm sure he is a fantastic player and all that etc etc. Your report says "For his outstanding performances on the contest stage."

Can you inform me which band or bands he played on the contest stage with this year? I've never heard a mention of any of his performances at the Open, Nationals, Masters, NW or Yorkshire area etc. Perhaps I'm not clued in enough.

Tom Johnson

4BR Reply:
Check out what we said about him Tom - we heard him on the contest stage with Eikanger at the Norwegian Nationals. Maybe not in the UK, but it was worth the airfare alone to hear the 8 bars in Kensington Cincerto, let along his playing on "Trumpet of the Angels" in Bergen.

Bully Boy Tactics

I read with interest your article "Bully Boy Tactics". As a player with some 35 years in various bands and as a father of 2, I have some personal experience of the subject.

Those who feel they can achieve anything by way of improved performance from any individual by these means are sadly mistaken. In the extreme, the scars can run very deep and stay with a person all of their life affecting their performance not only in the area originally concerned but in many other endeavours.

As for my own experiences, I started, as many of us do, as a school band player. In the school environment, at that time, one was used to bully boy tactics - even the teachers were not renowned for their "kid gloves" approach. However, in the school band I felt safe - the 2 teachers who took the band (one of which went on to be a very well known band composer) were very tolerant and nurtured the talent in the band (which at the time was one of the better school bands in the country).

I guess there were those who were brought back in line occasionally, but ultimately, being in the band was seen as a privilege, most kids respected that and played the game accordingly. The teacher who started the band had a reputation for being quite tough on those who stepped out of line in his main subject (P.E.) but showed absolutely no anger or sarcasm toward any player in the band if anything didn't quite work out. It was a great environment with lots of positive experiences that have kept me in banding over the years.

At the age of 14 I joined the town band and again saw nothing other than respectful coaching from the MD's that we had over the following years and always felt that I had support from fellow players. Going to band was the high point of my week and I felt depressed if, for any reason, I could not go. That band jumped off the merry-go-round that is the whole contesting scene in about 1970 - there was no "ambition" as far as any MD or any other member of the band was concerned, and all went along very happily.

I stayed with that band for too many years, however, ambition is a good thing in some respects and sadly the band declined through the lack of it.

(On a slightly different note, but maybe related - It concerns me to hear players sound happy or relieved when a practice has been cancelled or shortened. I've seen this increasingly as time goes on and across all age ranges. What's going on? I go to band because I enjoy playing in the band but I'm sometimes puzzled what other people get out of it. Do some people not enjoy band practice? If so, why bother - go do something else!)

My kids had various experiences which have led, sadly, to neither of them wanting at this time to be part of a band. My daughter had such a bad time at Junior school with "teacher tactics" which no doubt had good intentions but which were so ill thought through from a child psychology perspective that they backfired to the extent that the easy option for her was to give up playing altogether. She's got her degree in Psychology now and had some useful case studies in the way that such events shaped her own life, let alone the nutters that surrounded her growing up.

My son, a Soprano player, having had many good years in youth bands, had such unforgiving treatment on his first experiences of a senior band that it left him completely demoralised and never wanting to play in a band again. This wasn't even playing related - he had exams at the time and simply needed some leeway and time-out which seemed to be met by a "brick wall" response. He took up the guitar and has become a very proficient player, but as far as belonging to any formal group is concerned, I think the scars remain.

Myself, having been a member of, and having helped several bands since those formative years, I would comment that I have seen and experienced the good and the bad. I've been in the MD spot too, so hopefully I can see both sides. At best comment directly aimed at a player's performance can make a player a little more aware of their shortcomings and highlight areas to focus on in home practice. At worst, I have seen players reduced to tears and so demoralised, having their confidence and self esteem so shattered that they feel their only option is to give up entirely. That's a shameful act and a sad state for any human being to push another into, in any walk of life, let alone a hobby activity.

In defence of the MD, being in the middle of a band can be a challenge as anyone who has wagged the stick for even the briefest time will testify. Some years back, having just taken up the baton at a local band, I was taken to one side and warned, "You know that piece you got out last week - that 'Prelude for an Occasion' thingy? - well, be warned, the guy sat second man down doesn't like it - he refused to play it when the previous conductor got it out. It was on the night of a concert - it was on the program and he walked out..." Well - how do you deal with that sort of thing? Do you take every opportunity to "do the guy down" every time he makes a slip, or discuss it with him or what...? There's no way that anyone should abuse their position in that sort of way on either 'side' of the baton. It's disrespectful and certainly not in the spirit of banding as I know it.

Being MD is a pressure job. Some enjoy that kind of pressure. The problem is that in spite of the enjoyment (an adrenaline thing?) we don't see that it sometimes exposes a side of our personalities that's not very endearing. The nice guy who wanted to be and who certainly knew enough musically to become MD suddenly became a tyrant?

I don't for one minute think that anyone in a band deliberately sets out to make other people's lives unbearable - I think it's symptomatic of ambition and a drive toward perfection that needs some personal training.

In my professional life I have found several books on the subject of managing personalities very useful. I'm not just talking about managing other people - this is about finding valuable insights into your own persona as well which help you understand how you respond to various situations. Look at the dynamics of how your personality is affected by stress and risk - how do you respond? Different personality types respond very differently - but someone who is a Perfectionist (as many MDs will be), when faced with stress, typically responds at first by working harder.

When this fails, they resort to seeing error everywhere around them, typically this spills out and is redirected at co-workers (the band). Strangely they themselves don't see their response as 'anger' because anger is a bad emotion, but see it as 'irritation' or 'frustration' which are okay. However the folks around them just see the anger. Typically this person moves quickly on to feeling "I did all the right things, I don't deserve this, it's not fair". Typically the person needs to stop and ask themselves the forbidden question "What do I want out of this?" The persuit of perfection can sometimes lead down a very stony path.

When 30 people meet twice a week to get down to playing music and organising all the rest of the band stuff as well, there are bound to be disagreements and frustrations. Personal values such as "respect" and "integrity" are key to making things work. If human beings feel that they have respect, they will try their best, knowing that if something goes wrong there will be no recriminations. In my own experience I have performed best both in my professional life and in my playing when I have felt that I have respect from the people around me. In times when things go wrong, as they inevitably do occasionally, a few words of support from people that matter can put you on top of the world again.

Ambition is a driver. Unfortunately for MDs (and those around them), there are skills that need to be learned when dealing with other people that sometimes slip by the wayside on the path toward their personal goals for the band. Without rounding out their skills in these areas their efforts will perhaps find some success but little satisfaction.

After all, what's more likely to make a winning band - a bunch of "quivering jellies" too scared to play a right note for fear of playing a wrong 'un, or confident and secure players who ride the inevitable slips? MD's (or anyone else in a band for that matter) employing these tactics need to recognise what's happening and learn to do what's right. Recognising it is 90% of the problem, which is why I think this discussion is valuable.

Ken Norbury
Soprano
Silk Brass

A Hayle and hearty invitation to Simon!

May we through 4 bars send an invitation to Simon to contact the Hayle Band, as we are at present looking for a principal Euph,he can rest assured we have a great spirit and are probably the maddest band in Cornwall,contact e mail = Derekbrass76@aol.com or 01326569299 0r visit our website Hayletownband.co.uk

Many Thanks 4bars
and as always Great site
Keep Up The Good Work
Derek Johnston
Hayle Town Band.

Great service!

I know! I'm on the wrong page.
But I just wanted you to know that I ordered two CD's from you last Sunday evening, and they were waiting for me when I arrived home from work on Tuesday afternoon. Superb service.

Many, many thanks.

Paul Stace.

4BR Reply:
Thanks Paul - we had a huge demand for CD's over Xmas so we tried our best. If there are any delays we apologise as stocks of certain items were low.

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