Comments ~ 2003: April

Comments from April 2003

Torquay Re-Visited

I am writing today with complete outrage and dismay, not for a particular brass band but for brass banding in general!

It was brought to my attention by different people on both Saturday and Sunday that one of the winning bands had received assistance at recent rehearsals from the section's adjudicator.

'Cheating' is a very very harsh term and not one that I would like to use on any occasion but when (in my opinion) the winning band plays at a less than average standard it concerns me greatly about 'pre-decided' results.

I have been involved in brass banding for almost twenty years as either a player, musical director or spectator and it upsets me immensely that my hobby that relieves the pressures of my career has become as political and bureaucratic. I spend most of the year trying to persuade players that contesting is a vital part of the bands development, not necessarily with a view of promotion but to remain a musically viable entity; the brass band organisation then throws it back at me by this 'mistake.'

In the world of sport, politics or even in the world of business, if a person has an invested interest and does not declare it, they are likely to be suspended, fined, and almost definitely disgraced from their profession. Why does this happen more and more???

Matt

Are you listening?

As to your comments on the West of England Championship Section last weekend I begin to wonder if you have actually listened to any of the bands or you just stayed in the bar and your report was just what you heard from drunk, upset, band members.

And if in fact you were in the hall you obviously have no idea of what your ears are telling you, and perhaps if you were that good YOU WOULD BE IN THE ADJUDICATOR's BOX !!

David Johnson

A full retrospective please!

Dear Mr Adjuducator (well, the one that many people believe has a better musical ear than the one in the box!).

After reading all the write-ups of the other area contests after they happened and having patiently waited for ours, we were disappointed to just see half a sentence about us that was full of errors.

Firstly, we were asked not to play the Queen as the fourth section was going to play it. As our principal cornet I would have much preferred to play more than 4 bars before playing a solo, but we did what we were told!

Secondly, as you have written somewhere we came 10th and not 14th - rubbing salt into the wounds or what!!

Thirdly, we feel you provide a great service to the banding world but we do feel very dissapointed that you couldn't write a little more - your review was as useful as James Scott's that gave one brief sentence on each movement! The whole contest seems a big waste of time if the adjudicators (the official ones here!) don't help us to learn from the experience. And poor Cosham, who did come 14th never got a mention from you!

Finally, we'd also like to express our disappointment at the venue once again. We didn't feel that the stage was acoustically suitable for the bands in our section and the whole fiasco with the lights that preceded our performance was ridiculous. The spot lights were on so bright that it was shining right through our music so we had two sets of notes as those from the third and fourth movements came through the page - that could have been an interesting piece! After we eventually got them sorted we had to start the piece with spots in front of our eyes and ours minds totally unfocused.

We're not making excuses here, just stating facts. We were pleased with improving our placing by 5 on last year, 5 more next year and we'll be up in the top!

Helen Morgan
Tewkesbury Town Band

Why Dundee?

There's nothing better than winning the Regional Finals as we did last weekend, but what next? We are the Lanner and District Silver Band from Cornwall who have just won the West of England Regionals but now we face a 615 mile trip to Dundee; of course we will be there and are determined to come away with some silverware but at what cost! Initial estimates for travel and accommodation total circa £6,000. Sponsorship is not easy to come by especially as there are three other Cornish bands having to make the trip, plus one on their way to the Albert Hall.

The prize money from the Regionals wouldn't even get us out of the county! I appreciate that last year the Scottish bands had to travel to Torquay but surely it would be better to centralise the finals?

It's going to be a very difficult five months, not only getting the test piece up to a winning performance standard but also raising the funds to get us there! How do other finalists feel?

Lee Rouse

Congratulations on your inconsistency!

Just thought I would drop you a quick line about your West of England Regional Retrospective.

First, may I congratulate you on the shift away from the "pantomime" style of reviewing you adopted for the Yeovil entertainment contest. This time the focus, rightly, was on the playing. However, there is still a problem. You acknowledge at the beginning of your review that the decision to go for the two qualifying bands was "a decision that was just about universally seen as being right".

That being the case, I wonder why 4BR went on to disagree with that decision? Can you explain this apparent inconsistency?

It is possible, perhaps, that 4BR simply held a different view from just about everybody else at the contest. However, for the record my opinion is that (not for the first time) your personal friendships have led to a loss of objectivity. I wonder just how neutral you really are?

Here's to an honest appraisal of the Grand Shield in May.

Richard Knight

Tameside Error!

I was reading your review of the above contest and noticed some errors relating to my Band. Firstly we played Music for a Festival by Philip Sparke and not Dimensions.

Also, our trombone section consisted of Roz Davies (principal trombone with the Halle Orchestra) instead of Gareth Coope and Martin French instead of Michael Tonge, as well as Joyce Hall. I wonder if you would be able to amend these details on the website.

Suzy Fearn
Hazel Grove Brass Band

Why is Brass Banding so Unfashionable in Hampshire?

4BarsRest is a great forum for brass banding debate - so I thought I'd set the cat amongst the pigeons (not a normal activity for a Southerner, and exiled Cornishman!). My gripe is the lack of recognition for a spectacular story of success, which seems to have passed everybody by.

Steve Large and Melvin White have worked their socks off for a small town band, taking them from the 4th Section in 1998 to the Championship Section in 2004. In those 6 years Test Valley Brass (sponsored by Mitutoyo) have never been out of the top 3 in any regional qualifying section in which they have competed and have won 2 National Titles along the way. In fact Test Valley Brass has qualified for 5 National Finals in 7 years - quite a record I am sure you will agree!

The band, which has now gained championship status, is mostly composed of the same players that competed in the 4th section 6 years ago. I am aware that other bands have achieved similar success, but did they stick with their own players or import stars from further afield? Test Valley Brass has enormous support from its home base in Andover, witnessed by their many sell-out concerts each year. The Brass Band press has reported other similar success stories in recent years, so why has the Test Valley story not been similarly recognized?

Adrian Wallace

Where are the Rankings for us?

Please could you explain to me why it is unfair to publish the lower section rankings? There are lots of us who would like to see them anyway, regardless of how many contests each band has gained points from.

It would give a good indication to bands how they are faring against bands in other regions. Surely you have the Regionals / Nationals results for the last 4 years?
Let us have our placings - we're all intrigued!!

Lesley
Hampshire

Never mind Camborne - Kirky did it first!

In your article re Camborne Town and their B Band you stated "It is thought that it is the first time that two bands from the same organization have qualified for the finals".

Just for the record, over the last 5 years Kirkintilloch and Kirkintilloch Kelvin Brass have twice both qualified for their respective finals in the same year. Last year Kirkie Kelvin represented Scotland in he second section in Torquay and in 1999 they were at the fourth section finals in Nottingham- on both occasions Kirkie had qualified for the Albert Hall.

All this and Kirkie Kelvin have only been contesting for the past nine years.Coming from opposite ends of the country there's probably little else that links Kirkie and Camboure (other that Frank Renton of course!)

Scott Morrice

Yes and No Mr Wycherley

I read with great interest the comments over the last couple of months, especially those by Mr Harron and the highly respected Mr Wycherley. Although I am an advocate of contemporary music having attended the Hudds Contemporary Music Festival over the last 5 years and listen to much modern music from the orchestral world, I find the facts given by Mr Wycherley absolutely right about Mr Evans. I must also congratulate Mr Wycherley and his band for the Composer/Arranger competition, which is clearly promoting new talent to produce pieces for brass bands. I hope their efforts will be applauded by all.

Now for the thorny issue of Prague and music for contests. There was clearly a decline in the attendance at the Area contests that I was able to attend and the piece I expect was one of the reasons for that. When I initially played 'Prague' I must admit that it was not what I had expected, however over the weeks leading up to the contest, even through the last minute changes to the score, I began to understand the piece a bit better.

The week preceding the Yorkshire Area contest, I was talking to a fellow band player when another player walked past humming a figure from one of the movements of 'Prague'. To be honest I was very surprised! As a player I suppose you get into a piece after playing it over and over, and my point being I hear you say. If audiences bothered to sit and listen to all the bands and not just their pet bands then they would eventually perhaps understand it just as some of the players did leading up to the contest. We have a lot of people who attend contests yet only listen to 4 bands, who inevitably have the big names and so have the scream teams even if they play poorly. How are they true band supporters? Surely band supporters should support all bands never mind what their name is.

Another question I have been thinking about for a while is our audiences. In my honest opinion, in an age where there is so much variety we have a 19th century contest ethic and so eventually we will see our audiences dwindle to about 10 people. Are the people that come to contests there for the test-piece? Or are they there as amateur adjudicators? If they are there for the test piece then, yeah, they are there for entertainment, BUT never mind whether the test piece be 'Prague' or 'Blitz' it is true to say that people will only listen to a few bands mainly those who they think will win. As for shock results, or rather gasps from the audience, isn't it true that most of those who think it's a shock never actually heard the band that provided the shock (usually because they are bands who precede or follow a perceived 'Big' band). IF CONTESTS are there for entertainment then every contest should be run as an own choice or set timed contest.

Yeah, it's true that bands have no choice about what they play, or the audience have no choice in what they hear but if it were up to the players and audience we would never get any new music and we would be stuck in a virtual cycle of playing the same pieces over and over because they have nice tunes. I feel that if that were to happen then what would happen when people eventually get bored of the often over sentimental 'tunes'? Where would the new music come from? Do we really want to have music composed for band, which is a clone or copy of Eric Ball or even Cyril Jenkins in 20 years time? I appreciate the great music, which those greats produced but THAT was THEN, THIS is NOW. Again, WHAT IS A 'TUNE'? Surely what one person calls a tune is not necessarily another person's 'tune'.

As 'tunes' for many players and listeners are the only way to judge a piece why don't we play orchestral transcriptions, which are full of them. I highly doubt that looking back is any good in any form of life. Tunes of the by gone days are all well and good but to continue to reproduce them for decades is not. Are people within the band world as shallow? How can a
piece that has no perceived 'melancholy' theme/tune baffle so many people? If the audience is there for entertainment they should open their ears and at least try to perceive something new. They might not like 'Prague' or 'Maunsell Forts' but as Mr Wycherley pointed out, perhaps not at the contest. (We should remember that the attack on Judith Bingham as a composer is harsh, her piece was not originally written for the contest!!) If the audience fears it won't understand a piece why don't they make an effort and listen to the piece on a CD, or get a score on the day. One thing I both agree and disagree with in Mr Wycherley's
comments is

Fact:- Any band can choose to play untuneful music whenever they wish.

Although he is absolutely correct, there is also the fact that bands DO choose to play 'tunes' 99% of the time in their concert programme. Having questionned many people in a band concert audience over the last 6 months, over 75% of them have never gone to a band contest, of the 75%, nearly 70% have never considered going to a contest. So at the end of the day it doesn't matter what we play in the contest, 'untuneful' or 'tuneful', it is obvious that people are clearly not interested in being entertained by listening to the same piece over and over.

Sorry for being so long winded but as Mr Wycherley has a bee in his bonnet, it must be the same one that I have!!

Richard Jones

Pub Life?

As I reside in the San Francisco Bay Area, there quite a few interesting folks here, including some companies. One such company is Berkley Farms. It is, at this where your screen name comes into play.

What I see is a closeness in sound, if you like, between the ad of the dairy and your screen name. Here's the ad "Farms, in Berkeley?" Now your screen name 4barsrest.com? What comes to my mind is, if I did not an acquaintance with Ralph Hotz, I could possibly wonder if this perhaps was a rather lovely Pub or Bistro

Gary Greg

Help Please!!!

Sorry to bother you, but I am trying to enter a competition at Rath Trombones.

I can't find the answer to this question, and I was hoping that you may be able to help.

4. Who said this about their Rath trombone?

"The response is the really special thing, giving a security at all dynamic levels which can be elusive on some instruments. In solo playing it allows
more colour at ppp and the sheer efficiency delivers all the sonority I need for the orchestra with less effort and more control."

Peter Maunder
Chris Stearn
Mark Frost

I'd be grateful for any help you can give me.

Norman Price

Something about Skien

I have been reading the article about the contest in Skien which is taking place 27th to 29th April .

I will give some comments to the article:
* Skien is not located in the north east part of Norway, but south east, ca. 150 km south of Oslo.
* The test piece for Second Sectiond is "Nocturne" composed by Torstein Aagaard-Nilsen.
* Laksevaag Musikkforening will also take part in the Second Sectiond .

It is always a pleasure to read your web-site!!

Med vennlig hilsen / Kindly regards
Svein W. Farsund

One last bit of Prague - honest

I have listened to and read many comments about Prague, some like it, some don't, that is clear. What is less transparent though is whether some of the comments are in respect of the quality of the music itself or in its choice as a test piece. So is Prague music. Yes or No? Considering Prague as a piece of music I offer my introduction to the piece.

I heard it for the first time at the Scottish Championships having stayed over specifically to hear the Championship Section. (Ok it was an opportunity to have a few beers on the Saturday night as well).

Prior to hearing the Championship section all I knew of the piece was the title, Prague. What do I know of Prague, well, never having been there, I believe the architecture is superb & I would hope to visit some day.

What else do I know about Prague? Well I remember as a child it being part of the former USSR & inspired by the West, there was an uprising against the Soviet Union. The Hungarians embarked on the uprising in the belief that the West would provide military support. (God knows where they could have got that idea from?). Want to know the outcome....., do your own research or then again, for expediency, you could guess. When I heard the first few bars, you can guess, I wasn't thinking of beautiful Architecture, but, I was thinking of Prague.

Prague, a beautiful city, juxtaposed against the relentless oppression & hardship suffered by the people, who, encouraged to rise up, were through betrayal and inaction plunged, again, into darkness and despair as they were left to their inevitable, desperate, fate. So is Prague Music?

Well what is Music? Is music solely something that should sound pleasant & harmonious? Are dark, uncompromising, thought provoking, evocative aural pictures not also of merit? If one wishes to comment on the technical, aspects of the composition then fine. Personally I can offer nothing for the attack or defence. I do not have the technical knowledge to contemplate these semantics. If one wishes to comment on the merits of, "Prague" as a Championship Section Brass Band Test Piece, then that is a different can of worms.

Back to Prague. Would you perform it at a concert? Would it be appreciated? Would it alienate an audience. Personally I would say that it would very much depend on your target audience. You wouldn't play it in the park or in the pub, except perhaps at closing time, but, artistically, it certainly has something to offer.

In conclusion, Prague, "works" as a powerful, aural depiction, & I would like to hear it extended and re-schored in an Orchestral setting.

Angus Naples

Yorkshire Cancellation

Having just read about the cancellation of the regional contest in Yorkshire and Humberside I thought I'd pass on my comments having played at this several times in the last few years.

The contest itself is well organised and has a good format, I have known a band disqualified for playing a hymn tune without breaks between the verses! That seems a little petty. I believe the main reason for the lack of interest (are you listening mr Hill) is the venue, Minsthorpe is not the place for the contest! A nice little hall, and space backstage! But thats were it stops! I'm sorry but no offence to South Emsall (the host village) But its as boring as a very boring place that's shut!!!!

The majority of bands that enjoyed the contest were lower section bands and most had a good youth contingent, When the contest was in Scarborough it made an enjoyable day out as well as a pleasant contest, we used to look forward to it, as a cracking day out! But in Minsthorpe there was nothing, In fact last year we went home and then back 4 hours later for the results!

From what I know from our committee meetings it has been put forward to Mr Hill that the venue doesn't inspire the bands but the Y&HBBA decided to "give another chance". I know my brothers bad will be sad to see it go as defending champs they were looking forward to it. Come on Yorkshire lets have a good contest in a nice Yorkshire venue! People want a day out too! Why not York/Scarborough/Bridlington, just somewhere that's FUN!!! We don't want to play in the cheapest hall that you can find.

Garry Hallas

Grand Shield Relegation - Self Preservation?

It came to my attention last week that they have changed the way in which relegation is decided for these contests to "give bands the chance to stay up for at least 2 years without being relegated".

To do this they have devised a system similar to that, which exists for the National Championships with rankings based on placings in last year's contest added to that of this year's contest. Using the Grand Shield as an example, the first 2 bands were promoted to the British Open last year, and thus bands placed 3 to 13 were awarded 3 to 13 points respectively, and the bottom six were relegated to the Senior Cup.

This is all well and good until it comes to the bands who are new to the Grand Shield this year, ie. those relegated from the Open along with those promoted from the Senior Cup. In their wisdom, instead of giving all these bands an average mark like in the Nationals, they will be awarding the 2 relegated bands a notional placing of 3rd for last year's Grand Shield while the 6 who fought hard for their promotion to the Grand Shield have to do with a notional placing of 13th or effectively last of those that retained their Shield status.

Now, as a mathematician who graduated along with one of the 4BR team, I cannot see how this system will make it easier for bands to stay in the Shield for 2 years, as the newly promoted bands are going to be immediately disadvantaged by this notional 13th place. The same goes for the bands who were promoted from the Senior Trophy.

It all smacks of self-preservation, with the contest organisers seemingly scared that one or more of the big name bands may lose their big contest status.

Gareth John
Burry Port Town Band

The Road to Wigan Promenade?

In reply to the request from 'Mike Eb Bass Player' regarding a recording of Promenade by Frank Bryce, I have done some research on this. Apparently, the piece was originally called Wigan Pier but the name was changed to Promenade when it was chosen as a test piece for a competition (as yet unknown) The only recording I have been able to trace is one made by Solna Brass in 1974 on the Grosvenor label.

I contacted Grosvenor to find out whether it was still available but sadly it is not. I suggest perhaps contacting Solna Brass via their website (I say 'perhaps' because their website is in Swedish) at: www.solnabrass.com or maybe Besses o' the Barn where Frank Bryce was once conductor there to see if anyone there has any copies. Sorry I can't be of more help

Dave Payn
East London Brass

Friends Re-United?

My name is Andrew Foxhall, I am 32 and went to school in Leeds during the 70s and 80s. During 1980-1986 I had trumpet tuition with a trumpet player/teacher called Peter Ferris. Most of this was at my middle school and latterly at the Yorkshire college of music. I noticed on your site there is an article 'Thanks for the memory No.5 - Derek Southcott' by Chris Helme who mentions Peter Ferris as a member of the James Shepherd Versatile Brass. I know you're not a 'Friends reunited' website, but couldn't help wandering if this could be the same Peter Ferris and if any of you guys might know of his whereabouts.

I would be delighted if you could offer any info as I'd love to get back in touch with him after all these years.

ANDREW FOXHALL

Looking for a bit of Bourgeois?

Thank you for an excellent website about banding! A question: I am looking for a recording of 'Concerto for Brass Band nr. 2', by Derek Bourgeois. Can you help me?

Bruno De Busschere
Brass Band Midden Brabant - Belgium

Midlands revisited

It is interesting to read the comments of J-Luton, a player within my own band but with very much the same opinion of myself and others. How can the regionals be fair when bands not only compete at earlier contests with the area test piece but compete with the adjudicator being the same as the regionals. I don't condone this action but hey if this is the case then let all the other sectional bands know so we can all participate and have early directions of what the adjudicator is looking for.

I think many people will read this and take the line its sour grapes but ask all the other bands in the 4th section at Burton on Trent and hear their reaction. Come on Mr Thompson don't you think it would of been fairer to decline the NEMBBA offer of adjudication in February although in your defence you most probably did not know of the competing bands choices. If contest are to be held early of the regionals wouldn't it be fairer to stipulate that that in open choice the one piece that cannot be performed is the regional testpiece once published?

I hope this email is printed and I certainly would like to hear of the feedback from other bands who were not aware of these circumstances.

Martin - Rushden

Stop Moaning!

Putting into perspective the comments of J Luton regarding LESB and Bakewell (not Matlock) band, it is worth pointing out that there were, as far as I'm aware, 8 or 9 bands competing at NEMBBA this February, all equally capable of using their adjudicator's comments to improve their Area performance. Also, Bakewell came 2nd and 1st at this contest in the last 2 years, without it doing them many favours then.

How can adequate preparation for a contest be considered cheating? As a student, I don't hand uni assessments in until I've consulted with my supervisor, nor am I expected to revise for exams without asking people in the department for any help. Proper Preparation & Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance!

I joined Bakewell in '93 a few years after their last Regionals success in the 4th section. Due to a fantastic sense of timing I left last September to do a placement year from university, and they start bloody winning again! I think they're trying to tell me something.... Anyway, I'm really chuffed for them, and I'm not having them accused of cheating!

Stop moaning J, at least you've got bands to play with over there!

C Davenport

Facts Wrong!

With regard to J Luton's comments re the 4th section, Midland Area:

1st of all he has got his facts wrong, Matlock band did NOT qualify for the finals as J Luton stated and also the NEMBBA contest had TWO adjudicators! to suggest that cheating has occurred is unbelievable and questions the integrity of the adjudicator and NEMBBA and Area committees. I stand up for these people, Both contests were extremely well ran and hassle free. I would like to convey my thanks to Brian Egglehaw, John Slater and their excellent team.

Additionally the question of unfair advantage of a dry run at NEMBBA contest, that contest is open to non-association bands as well so there is no unfair advantage! There were 8 bands at the NEMBBA contest and 7 of them played at the area!

The bands who were in the prizes at both contests got there by hard work and practice and not by any form of cheating by themselves or area/NEMBBA committees nor indeed adjudicators!

SHARON STANSFIELD



No beer for these percussionists!

Having read you're review of the Midlands third section I noticed you wrote about my band Audley, 'Did the percussion player have a pint waiting at the bar or just a motorcycle fan keen to see the machines revving up outside the hall?' Not one of our three percussion players at the contest were legally old enough to drink! Still, despite the local motorbike enthusiast, we are going to Dundee- perhaps you could give us another good pre-contest prediction, as we exceeded it this time!

Many thanks, and congratulations on an excellent site!

Chris
Principal Trombone
Audley Brass

Thank You

Thank you for printing my comments on the Midland area.

Did I say Long Eaton & Matlock, I meant Long Eaton & BAKEWELL. Having been in Derbyshire recently I had Matlock on the brain..sorry.

Sentiment & comment remains the same though.!!!!

J - Luton

Scotland revisited too!

Re comment from Mike Warner about the 2nd Section draw, I was at the draw concerned and the delegates, including Mike Warner whose band had just drawn no. 1, all had the opportunity to object and have a re-draw
if deemed necessary. There was general agreement that the draw should stand and Mike Warner, who now feels so strongly about it, raised no objection at the time, hence the original draw was allowed to stand.

What's the point of complaining after the event when you are not prepared to stand up and be counted when you have the chance to do something about it?

T. Russell - Ayrshire

Alliance Brass quickly issued an apology and gave the offending individual the sack. Someone once said "What we permit, we encourage". Their swift action sends the strong message that this kind of behaviour is not permitted and is therefore discouraged. Well done Alliance Brass; integrity lives!

John Brooks
Cambridge, Ontario


Help from the composer?

I would like to answer the comments someone made regarding rules about having 'help from the Test piece composer'
My band was lucky enough to host a Weekend Workshop with Simon Dobson and a very enjoyable time we had too! Whilst we learnt a lot from him, I feel we had no advantage whatsoever - its not what the composer wants to hear that decides the result, its the adjudicator's.

SARA WEB

Prague – last words

Thank you for your excellent coverage of the Regional Championships! It's very seldom that an organisation such as yourselves have the courage to stick your neck out with predictions and retrospective reviews so I congratulate you!

The issue of "Prague" should probably be laid to rest now, but I would just like to add my tuppenceworth (for the last time I promise!). Amidst the negative response and controversy surrounding this piece, I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed listening to this work at the regionals, probably more so than many test pieces selected for the championship section in recent years! Why? Well, for a start it felt very refreshing to listen to something different, music not merely based on "tunes", but also using the other parameters of music - texture, style, colour and structure, which many composers seem to neglect in a conventional framework.

However, I must admit that, for a piece which was deemed as technically basic by a number of my colleagues, I was shocked to hear just how poor many performances could be, not just musically, but many could not grasp the technique and rhythmicism of the music, rendering it lifeless and non-sensical! One factor which could attribute to this is the manner in which the piece is scored - all the instruments are treated so equally that if a few players are missing from a rehearsal situation, the full picture would be very difficult to realise, hence the "confused" sounds which would be created.

Perhaps ourselves as a movement should look within for solutions to these issues instead of criticising a well crafted piece of music by one of this country's finest composers. In terms of accessibility, I recently conducted a rehearsal on "Fabulous Birds", the European set work and I must admit, this is in a totally different and more contemporary sound-world than any moments within Prague! Perhaps we should be a little more musically open minded?

Alan Duguid

The End - the very, very end

Are we all going to shut up moaning about Prague? Or do those of us that had to sit through endless rehearsals on it, have to keep reading the same old boring arguments on here, by a lot of you who have only had to listen to it - and by choice for most! I'm sure there are more interesting things to talk about!!

Helen Marcroft

Re grading?

Interesting observations, and to some extent I agree. However a further issue exists in the disparity of the numbers of bands allowed in each section and the geographical location of each. In the Midlands, they have dogmatically stuck to no more that 12 bands in the Championship Section, this to some degree achieves/supports what the original aims of the creation of the 1st section wanted. However as the Midlands must be one of the largest if not the largest in the country, focusing on what you class as quality may cause some unfair regrading in this area. Especially as a further 17 bands are 1st section and the remaining sections are a similar size.

In Yorkshire we had 15 bands in the Top section, 10 in the 1st, 11 in the 2nd and 3rd and 8 in the 4th. Again, is this because Yorkshire is Top Heavy with championship level bands. I don't know.

So how do we do it. Surely we need to address the Geographical locations 1st and carve the country fairly so that a respectable number of bands in each area and in each section are catered for. Secondly, should we set objectives for each section, so it is clearer what each band much do to achieve promotion, or demotion so to speak. A number of 1st section bands are promoted and then demoted, due to a lack of consistency in their overall performances. It is unfair to those bands to go through this mill at contest times. A clear criteria for requirements of each band would assist in the longer term goals, or if a band's objectives are to stay at a certain level, they know what they must achieve to support this. Thirdly, a band's existence could depend upon a good or bad result in a certain year. This year has proven with such subjective test pieces in the top section, that curve balls can happen. Travelsphere 11th, Black Dyke 13th, not results that do their respective qualities much credibility. Should we see a better approach to ranking the bands after each year's contests so that such opposed results as these do not cause untold damage.

These are meant to be a view. I'm sure everyone has better or different approaches. Will we ever find the right one.

Interesting debate though.

Rich Walker
Carlton Main Frickley

Perhaps the pieces are to blame?

Perhaps the problem this year was the standard required by the test pieces. The demands placed on championship section bands by Prague meant that only a few made musical sense of it. The same could be said of the first section.

Regrading bands as you suggest would have meant that more bands would have coped but where does this lead us? Having worked extremely hard for promotion many band musicians would find regrading a crushing blow.
Admittedly, the current situation is little better. There are few things more demoralising for bands than to have to rehearse a piece well beyond their capabilities during the dark winter months.

Another approach would be to select pieces that allowed more bands to make sense of the music but still challenge them to excel.

Having said all this, my personal experience as a Sop player in the 1st section is that I was really stretched by Passacaglia. Although I may not have enjoyed the contest itself, I feel that my playing has benefited
enormously from it. This to me has always been the main point of contesting.

It is not surprising that the top level has not changed much since the first section was created. To my mind there are a lot of similarities to football. There will always be a small elite who attract the best talent. As a result there will be large gap in standard between the top level and the next one down. You might 'cure' this by insisting that all band members live within 5 miles of the band hall but then we are headed for mediocrity again.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

Dave Wicks
The Ehgam Band

Regrading on the rocks

I started off reading your regrading question with interest and some sympathy. But your argument ran onto the rocks a little towards the end when you mentioned what would happen to the fourth section.

First you say, 'ah well the fourth section will probably get bigger', then 'well the fourth section should be bigger than the other sections shouldn't it?', and then you raise the spectre of dividing the fourth section thus effectively creating a new fifth section. This sounds a like an opinion formed off the cuff, which would inevitably have its own problems.

There is an underlying problem with sections and leagues; they work in sport but are open to criticism in music. One man's Champion band is another's runner up [or even mid-table band]. Due to this there will always be bands in a section that aren't quite up to standard or outstrip their section colleagues. There is no way around this.

However a couple of things could make it less blatantly apparent:

a. More ranking competitions rather than relying on the chance of one contest result.

b. Having a totally different system of sections more similar to that of the Youth Band championships.

I believe, however, that behind this issue is another more basic issue. Both of these solutions, and indeed the general regrading exercise advocated by 4BR, sounds horribly tricky to undertake without the consensus and unity a strong one-band-one-vote governing body would supply. Such an organisation would be a tremendous help in anticipating, averting and dealing with many of the issues bands people gripe about on this site. It could also undertake the woefully neglected work of promoting a uniquely traditional and still very popular form of music-making. What can be done to create this governing body?

I suppose that's another question altogether......

Daffyd Jones

Dictator Maximus

King Dick – a first class Dictator

I'm quite sure that Richard Evans would make a first class Dictator Maximus. His 5 decrees are admirable and would receive much support. However, one important decree that is missing in my view is:

Far more notice and attention must be sought from and given to the younger players in the brass band movement. What do they think about tradition, contesting, adjudication, choice of music, the 'league' system, commercialisation etc. How do they see the future of brass banding? What would they change if they were Dictator Maximus?

They are the future of our movement. Their answers I suspect would be somewhat different from Richards.

Roger Lincoln
Musical Director
Burneside Brass Band

Richards Fourth??

I have to agree with most of your ideas. I'm a player in a Belgian band, not the best championship band, but I'm sure that we are number one when it comes to the 'band' part. However I have a question about your fourth decree. You mentioned in your article that bands should get gold, silver,... medals, (good idea) because we all now the problems with adjudication... A little bit further you speak of a premier league of 10 bands, great idea again, but why use both a test piece and an own choice piece?

I have the experience from our own Championship that that only gives more problems. A contest result can be more accurate with one piece, because adjudicators are also human beings and have preferences in what they like to hear. Don't you agree? And I also want to congratulate you with the fifth decree although I have a minor problem with it. It is true that we have to take care of our 200 year history of band music and both in Britain (Cory,...) and in Belgium (Buizingen) there are bands who try to do something to preserve this music for the future generations.

I do not agree however with the popular song part, especially for your 'premier league' bands. Many people in the audience who listen to those bands are brass band fanatics and they don't want to hear a popular radio tune played by a brass band, they want to hear real brass band music. (Particularly frustrating when a top 10 band from England goes on a European tour, but I'll save this for another article or comment.)

Good ideas, but I would like you better as a democratic president than as a dictator, we have some already in the world of today.

Peter Maertens

Well done Dictator Evans!

Having read Richard`s "decrees" for the future of banding, I would wholeheartedly agree with the majority of his views.

1) Most certainly restructure the organising bodies.

2) Form a premier league for those top bands where, in the main, they have large funds to run their bands.

3) Grading of all contesting bands should not be decided on one result each year (with all its variables!).We should all have to compete in three contests per year (Set test, own choice, entertainment) and if a band chooses not to attend one of the nominated contests, they are effectively placed last in that contest. This is an area of contesting that has really bugged me for a number of years and is well overdue for revision. Would I be right in saying the Welsh area have a similar system?

4) Finally get Mr. Evans to head a working party into a total overall. That I would support in anyway possible.

Dave Lea

My vote for a Dictator!

Hi. Just read Richard's piece. No problem. He's got my vote, what about you lot? Hang on though, you don't 'vote' for dictators, do you?...............

Roger Pearcey
Suffolk.

Spare a thought for the judges?

I have been reading with interest the letters that you have received in respect of the results in the various regional finals that have already taken place.

A lot of criticism has been aimed at various adjudicators and a lot of praise given to others.

The brass band world has become so predictable with its continual abuse/praise heaped on these poor gentlemen who have to sit through these performances, sometimes listening to vast numbers of indifferent performances.

Please spare a thought for Stan Lippeat who will (if they all turn up) have to adjudicate on 26 performances of Lydian Pictures split into three sections to allow for two comfort breaks. I understand that contesting is a very hit and miss procedure and is down to the interpretation of just one man, but rather than give the adjudicator a hard time may I suggest the following: -

Three ranking contests to be attended by each band in any year and that the top ranked two bands are promoted and the bottom two are relegated.

Each section to be adjudicated by two adjudicators in separate boxes/tents and the overall winner to be the band with the highest combined score.

I would like to point out that even though my own band is only competing in Section 4 at Torquay next weekend, the cost of employing a Musical Director, the entry fee, cost of tickets to get into the hall, the coach fare to the contest and the cost of the music will total just under £1000.

With this sort of money being spent by a local village band without the benefit of sponsorship, I think the least the contest organisers can do is to ensure that when the day is over they have ensured that the best band won and that nothing was put to chance.

So lets please not blame the adjudicators but make our representations to the Brass Band Federation of Great Britain to sort this out once and for all and start making brass band championships as professional as possible.

David Harding
Drybrook and District Silver Band

The Europeans - Are you kidding?

On several occasions in the past, 4BR has tried to push the masters on the European front. 4BR being a Masters-sponsor, I feel you can not judge unbiased.

On the other hand, you're pushing it a bit to far: you state "the decision of Fairey not to compete could ultimately undermine the long term existence of the competition itself...", are you kidding?

Next, the nationals are based on objective regionals and a grading system, and not a private invitation contest like the masters, and we all agree they produce a true champion band worth defending England. This stands for more then a century now.

IMHO the problem is only with Fairey (sorry guys). How a for decades sponsored band can not pay their trip is unbelievable to me.I've been playing on 13 European championships with bands that never had any sponsorship. With one band I took part 9 times in 10 years, all the time going abroad all across Europe, leaving the band no chance of saving up any money. Not mentioning the names, 80% of all the other champion bands are also unsponsored and have to ask their players to pay a monthly fee, and eg an extra 200£ to pay a Eurotrip.

The inevitable conclusion must be the Europeans are not on the priority list of Fairey. Then, the real eyebrower is why the decision came so late? If the EBBC would need to reorganise each time a bands stays down, they would have a lot of work.

BTW must we understand now, the Scots, the Welsh, the Irish will never get the chance to enter the masters to prevent this contest to be condemned to a 2nd row nationals? I feel there's plenty of room to have a European masters! Problem solved or not really?

Edy Van Asch
Belgium

Why Dundee?

I am writing in response to the comments asking "why Dundee" for the Nationals. Your correspondent seems happy to move the finals around the country to give all areas an equal crack of the whip (as is just right) but since when did having an international airport enter the criteria for hosting a band event.

I'm not aware of Nottingham having an airport accessible from all over the country (although I'm happy to be proved wrong) for instance. I do remember however all the years when everyone had to travel to London. In the days before Dundee Airport took anything bigger than a two seater plane, this meant bands from that area organising other means of transport. As a Dundonian now working with Fulham Brass Band in London I was very disappointed not to be going home but think it's a great honour to a city that has fostered some very strong banding talent over the years.

I suggest to your contributor that the quality of the venue, the strength of public support and the warmth of the welcome are far more important criteria. Incidentally I agree that the number of available hotel rooms is a potential drawback but as Sandhurst Band seem keen to travel to Edinburgh I'm sure there are plenty available there (and if not, I'll ask my mum if she has a spare floor!)

Good luck to all in Dundee and if the National Association feel the need to appoint a cultural attache and general guide to visiting bands (particularly the poor southerners who have had to travel so far) just let me know!

Paul McLaughlin
MD
Fulham Brass Band

Light on West of England

I thought I'd try to shed some light on the questions on your west of England feature on your website...
We compete at one of three venues each year in turn Bristol, Poole and Torquay. This is probably due to the distances some bands have to travel to reach them. This way the western Cornish bands, plus the eastern Hampshire ones at least have one year in three where they can easily reach the contest venue and therefore keep down the costs of travel, accommodation etc.

As to why we are the last to compete, if you find out any more info please could you let us know as we are at a loss. (Last year when we qualified for the nationals in Torquay most hotels were already booked up so we had to take whatever we could get!) Hope this is useful.

Lynda.

Well done Stan the Man

Good article from S.T.M. on the Flugel Horn.I totally agree about Cecil Annetts, great player and what a nice person. Why was there no reference to the 4 valve instrument and the greatest living exponent of the instrument Sergei Nakariakov ?

Ken Vernon.

A little about Cantium

You mentioned in one of your previous articles or pre contest reviews that you have no recollection of Cantium Brass (2nd Section ) prior to the year 2000. The band has a history dating back to 1886 when it was formally know as Margate Silver Band and prior to that Garlinge Wesleyan Mission Band.

For many years, the band featured at the Crystal Palace Contests and more recently two appearances at the National Finals in 2000 Royal Albert Hall and in 2001 at the Preston Guildhall.

When the band relocated to Canterbury, it changed it's name to Cantium Brass (Latin for Kent) as many of the players travelled from all over Kent.

Hope this information may prove useful for any further features or articles where the history of our band may prove relevant. For more detailed info, please take a look at our website www.cantiumbrass.co.uk

Many thanks for adding the classified section to your website, this is a very welcomed feature and we have taken advantage of the 20% introductory offer and signed up for the year. This has got to be the most informative best Brass Band Site around.

Bridgette Goold
Band Manager (Cantium Brass Band) Kent
www.cantiumbrass.co.uk

And a bit about Downton

Just saw your preview of the fourth second and was very pleased to see us predicted for 4th place!

You might like to know that the present Downton Band and the Downton Huntsman Band from 1988 are in fact one and the same, and there are even a few players in the current band from that era.

The band even reached the Championship Section for a time (possibly around 1990/91) but some time later (around 1993/94?) the band almost folded and stopped competing, although since then they started competing first in the Wessex Contest where we are now in the First Section, and more recently in the Regionals.

Sorry to be a bit vague on the details but I only joined in 2000 so am a relative newcomer!

Greg Allain (2nd cornet)

Cheating revisited

Following on from various comments about "cheating"; the letter "Can we have an extra player?" letter from Carrie Hook from Pontypool, and an unfortunate disqualification in the London and Southern Counties Fourth Section, I have to ask the following two questions.

1. If the Rules for contests run by BFBB aren't on the Internet, why not?

2. If they are, who placed them? They are very well hidden. Even with a souped up search engine in use at my work place, I could not trace the document.

So, two requests.

1. Does anyone know where the Contest Rules are on the Internet?

2. Would a representative of BFBB care to comment?

William Elsom
Fulham Brass Band

And what about percussion in the 4th Section?

Further to my two pennorth about this piece (comments, 26/2), I ask the question I posed there in again.

How many bands withdrew from the fourth section because of the need for a percussion solo/duet at the top of the last movement? There were less bands in the L&SC 4 th section but that was in part due to the promotion of some bands to try and even out the section sizes.

I counted about 95 bands competing in the fourth section (not counting West of England who are up this weekend), and wonder how that compares with last year. Especially noteworthy in terms of withdrawals, was the Scottish fourth section, where no less than 8 bands withdrew. I have to wonder why.

Much as many people like Lydian Pictures, I do question its suitability for the fourth section set piece where many bands do not have percussion.

William Elsom
Fulham Brass Band

Bits and Pieces and help required

Sunset Rhapsody

Ah! Sunset Rhapsody. Now CWS (Manchester) recorded it on their first LP for Fontana - so that's 1959 - and Hendon did it in 1983 on Polyphonic. I can't recall a CD recording of it but Black Dyke and one other band are doing all Eric Ball CDs this year. So, who knows?
There is so much of Eric Ball that is not committed to CD but that is another story!

Tim Mutum
Ipswich

What about Garside then?

How could you possibly leave out Derrek Gartside (Manchester CWS Band) out of your list of top ten cornet players? he must be one of the best of all time, just listen to a few of the old CWS Band records.

John Brady
Blackpool

Pete's nearly finished but needs some help!

I have nearly finished my autobiography, but i need some more information regarding the Mineworkers solo contest. Does anyone have a list of winners please.

PETER ROBERTS

Looking for a Promenade

I am sorry if this is sent to the wrong person but please please please please could you help me or put me on to someone who could help me I am looking for a cd or tape that some brass band has made with PROMENADE by FRANK BRYCE on I was a playing member of Hatherleigh Silver Band for 32 years I gave up playing full time 4 years ago due to ill health but have helped them out a couple of times at contests in the past couple of years and have been looking for a recording of this piece of music for a long time please could you help me.

Mike
Eb bass player

Foxy on the Mend!

Apologies for the general message but foxyinward27@aol.com is closing down due to rehousing inside the ward 27. I Don't know the telephone number of the room or bay of destination.

Many thanks for your emails. will contact one and all once ground base established. This also applies to the phone number 276 - 5094. Now defunct.

There is no panic, this must mean things must improving, I have been asked to give up this particular transplant room to a rather more deserving patient, who's in urgent need of a transplant. I'm supposed to be the fittest of all transplantees. This is how tight things are here and all credit to the staff for maintaining some sanity. It's not easy to ask a patient 14 days after a Match Unrelated Bone Marrow Transplant, not exactly on top of the world to surrender their isolation room. The staff have to do the best with what LIMITED resources are available on the NHS, and prioritise patients, who are still at risk of infection, with serious consequences, not to easy a decision to make. This is not a hit at the NHS merely an awareness appeal, to say Ward 27 does rely heavily on donations and charity money.

I take my hat of to Doctors and Staff connected with the Haematology department here at the M.R.I., for their courage, hard work and commitment. Thanks again for those who helped with our bit of fund raising. £2010 from Faireys and Fodens Joint band concerts. With £1400 from Charity concerts at Glossop Bandroom. Finally, my employers for raising £2033 in a raffle. That totals to £5443 to a deserving charity, every last penny. Like any charity they could all do with more, if you feel it deserves it give it one. ( a Poun£)

...................Still what price another "Tomahawk" Missile. It's only politics Mr Prime Minister try $ 1,000,000 each. .............

Woe lad woe!!!

Phil Fox

Foxy signing off, fort time bein anyroad.

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