Comments ~ 2002: October

Comments from October 2002

New commisions...
I read with interest your list of 'Test Piece' composers and the most influential people in banding. All the pieces listed are up there as some of my favourites along with the (re-arranged) contributions of Vaughan Williams, Rubbra, Elgar & Holst.

A few years ago I tried to get the 'movement' to commission a work from Michael Nyman, composer of music for the film 'The Piano' & countless Peter Greenaway films. Michael's management at the time was very much in favour of the idea but his style was not the 'modern music' that was favoured by the 'powers that be'. I thought this was a shame as purely from a financial prospective Mr Nyman was what could be described as 'hot property' and the CD sales would have been big!!! (even bigger than 'Floral Dance' - "probably").

I was interested to see that you felt that the movement had over burdened Philip Wilby, maybe if we had spread the net a little further over the last ten years to include the likes of Michael Nyman, Gavin Bryars or Simon Jeffes who represent a totally new direction stylistically for the band movement, then Philip would still be writing for us. There are so many different styles of contemporary music out there but we seem to be being steered towards a very narrow band of the genre.

If we were really adventurous we could even look as far as Philip Glass or Steve Reich, now that would be interesting!

We seem to be being 'led by the hand' by our leaders down a very narrow path towards marginal contemporary composers when there are internationally and commercially successful living composers not being approached

For those of you that have never heard of the composers I have listed, check out your local CD store for the ones I have mentioned, then try and find music by the 10 composers of 'Test Pieces' listed in the article, an interesting
exercise and quite revealing.

Colin Stevens

4BR reply:
Indeed Sir... A work by Nyman for Brass Band - now that would be interesting. Or Gavin Byers - certainly one that would be challenging for our movement. As for Jeffes - didn't he sadly die of a brain tumour in December 1997?

Beeb double up
Having been to the Great Northern Brass Arts Festival, The British Open & the Sunday Gala Concert, I was looking forward to the broadcasts on LTTB on the Friday nights on Radio 2 and the Radio 3 Broadcasts on 11th October and 18th October. Having looked at the projected programme listings for the broadcast on 18th October, I was a little gobsmacked. I see that Radio 3 intend to broadcast Vaughan Williams: Variations Grimethorpe Colliery, Fatherland featuring Roger Webster (cornet,Black Dyke Band and The Last Spring from Cory's. But hold on a minute, on the LTTB Broadcasts after the Open weekend, they treated us to Fatherland, The Last Spring and snippets from Vuaghan Williams' Variations!! On radio 3's Lunchtime broadcast (11th October), we had Epic Symphony in full from Fodens (played on 15th September, Birmingham), Rhapsody in Brass, (Fairey's, 15th September. Nothing wrong with that at all, but then LTTB played selections from the Great Northern Brass Arts Festival on 7th September, and what did we get? We got The march from Epic Symphony, played by Fodens a week earlier and part of Rhapsody in Brass from Faireys!! Come on BBC, I can imagine you saying 'its different audience's, so we can do it', but, anyone that heard Friday lunchtime and LTTB the same evening, must have been a brass band fan? To give us the same music (allbeit on different occasions) is a bit of joke, or is it just me?

The BBC had over 15 hours of brass-band music to give us, from the two events and they double up. I have no objections to hearing two performances of Maunsell Forts, as it was a BBC commission for Radio 3, so they will milk it as much as they can, but as the bbc on its LTTB link gives you the 4Barsrest website, it would be interesting to hear why their programme planning was such.

Joanne Livsey
Manchester

4BR reply:
Don't ask us... ask the BEEB...
EMAIL: lttb@bbc.co.uk
FAX: 0121 432 8081

A laughing matter....
I really laughed at your CD review of the forthcoming Championship Section Area test piece, Judith Bingham's Prague. You are obviously trying to get people to buy the CD of it, even though you know most people will not like the music. So you've decided to be completely ambiguous about your views. You say that it is "an enjoyable music portrait", yet will "cause more than a few headaches for...audiences". So headaches are enjoyable?

And the most comedy line yet is "The amount and volume of the applause at the end of this performance may give more than a fair indication of how the work may or may not be received". So it looks like we'll have to buy the CD to see which side of the fence you are on.

How the heck can any of your editorial be trusted as objective, when you rate the same CDs you are selling??? Does anyone respect your views?

David Read [not the adjudicator]

4BR reply:
It doesn't take an Einstein to work out that yes - we do sell the CDs we review and rely upon the sales we make to allow us to run this website. And can't you read betweeen the lines on the applause comment?

However - you are confusing the purpose of this CD review. It's just not the vehicle for commenting on the merits of the Bingham's work 'Prague'. So to say we are being ambiguous is nonsense. The work sits nicely on a fine release with four other test pieces.

As a regular visitor to 4BR - you'll be aware of our procedure of reviewing test pieces before major competitions. You'll have to wait until February before you know what we really think!

Why no youth CDs?
Having just released a CD with Wigan Youth Band, recorded by Doyen, I was just enquiring about why you don't sell CD's of youth bands?

There are a lot of fine youth band CD's out there. The average age in our band is about 12/13yrs old(me being 17 yrs old and the eldest member). This CD is one of the finest performances our band has put on.Sure we had a few helpers in like John Doyle and Andy Cattanach, but mainly the CD is performed by up and coming stars of the banding world, who in turn, will
eventually feature on CD's you sell now by Cory, Besses, Fodens etc... Why not give us all a chance and ask Doyen about letting the future of banding be heard?

Speaking out on behalf of all the youth bands in Britain.
Joanne Moss.

4BR Reply:
We'd be delighted to sell youth band CDs on the site. All bands have to do is send us a copy and we'll review it. As for selling the CDs - simply get in touch with us to dicuss terms.

We love you DK?
With reference to your article Conductors Day 1st September 2002, what are the chances of getting a pin up copy of the photograph displayed of David King?

Whilst the brass band world deservedly hero worships the maestro, I would just like to add the feminine touch, the man is "drop dead gorgeous"!!!

Whilst you debate the merits of the musicianship in the banding world, I think many of my fellow female players would agree, David brings some much needed glamour to brass bands. I shall look forward to watching him in action at the Albert Hall (and listening to the band!)

Maria (David King groupie)

Admiration for David
I would like to take this opportunity to record my great admiration for David Stanley during his period as Chairman of the BFBB. I had the great pleasure of working jointly for him and Paul Hindmarsh for 18 months, at the National Brass Band Centre in Halifax.

National voluntary organisations, especially membership associations like the Federation, inevitably have to encompass a wide range of views and opinions. The world of brass bands is a political world and, like all political worlds, not all its members agree with each other all the time. What always impressed me when working with Dave was his ability to rise above the power politics and always strive to steer the Federation in ways which provided the best overall solution for bands across the UK, of all standards. During his period of office, the BFBB was not free from criticism, but he was always willing to listen and to explain why a particular compromise had been made - he acknowledged that if you couldn't do exactly what everyone wanted you could at least have the decency to tell them why.

Under David, the BFBB has achieved a great deal, not least of which must be the improvements to the Registry and alignment of registration and national contest rules, but for me there is one thing which stand above everything else: the fact that despite all the criticisms (which are so easily made) we still have a single national body representing brass bands in the UK.

I sincerely hope that David enjoys a long and relaxed retirement and wish his successor all the best for the future.

Pete Denton, former Development Officer National Brass Band Centre

Eager band want experience
I conduct a young and "eager" fourth section band near Stockport, who would benefit from more experienced players in the ranks. We are currently looking to compete more, and would like to take on board 2 more tutti cornets, an Eb Bass and a percussionist so we can consider going off to the areas in 2003. It seems that players are hard to come by these days, and any amount of paid advertising hasn't paid dividends.

Any interested party can email me on reddishprizeband@yahoo.co.uk ,and I would be grateful for any help. Why subscribe to paper publications, when you have access to 4BarsRest, the best and up to date band online news!

Steve Shawcross

A fine piece of music?
While agreeing with your good selves that 'Maunsel Forts' is indeed a fine piece of music, I must say - in my own humble opinion - that as a choice of test piece for what is considered the ultimate contest in brass banding, it was as exciting as watching paint dry. I sympathize and agree to a certain extent with your views on blinkered 'old farts' who live in the past and can't accept change and write off anything that is a bit different as rubbish. I would like to know, however, as an average punter who pays out quite a lot of money for tickets, travel and accommodation ( and a small fortune on lager) if I complain that the piece is not entertaining enough to listen to twenty times (or in my case more than four times) does that make me an 'old fart'. Can you tell me of a piece of music that you could listen to that many times in a day just because it is a good piece of music? 'Masquerade' or 'Dove Descending' may not be better than 'Forts' musically but we'll listen to ten performances or more because we want to hear messrs Webster, Griffiths, Williams, Porthouse, etc. tackling the near impossible solos with the chance they could fall on their backsides and give us lesser mortals a reason to carry on. Surely if a composer is commissioned to write a test-piece for such an event he must be given guidelines to work within, i.e. the piece must test the band, sections and soloists dynamically, technically and musically. This way the musicians are satisfied and the paying public will be content.

Mike Fox

...but not a good test-piece
Having just listened to Maunsell Forts again (I was at the Open this year for the first time) on Radio 3, I have reached the following conclusion: It is a fantastic piece of music, but not a good test-piece.

A contradiction? No, because although test-pieces are written in many different styles (and are sometimes written first as "major works" not intended for contesting purposes), they are a quite specific genre.

I am reminded of the sleave note to the SPARKE cd by Doyen, which describes exactly why he has been commisioned to write so much, and why his music is so popular at own choice contests: He writes with the brass player (and enthusiast) in mind; pieces that are enjoyably challenging. He does loud bits, fast bits (which if you recall, was what McCabe wanted to avoid) and tends to end with a bang. Tallis of course, being the exception. He even said that he didn't view himself as a composer, but as a music writer; he performs a function, and that function is to write contest music. Musical purists would hate that, but brass banders (myself included) don't go to contests to be musically challenged.

Basically, we're all old farts.

That's not to say as a movement we don't appreciate good music (I for one am about to take a tape I've just made and listen to it several time over), or that we should stop commisioning composers such as McCabe to write new music. We do need to extend our repetoire, but contest organisers ought to bear in mind the players, for the whole point of banding is enjoyment, and by all accounts Maunsell Forts was far from enjoyable to rehearse.

That's enough rambling from me now, though I feel I ought to mention that the most prestigeous contest I have ever played in was the 4th section finals in '98, so feel free to dismiss everything I have said.

Neil Kettles

My hero...
Great site. Whatever you do, don't let the standards drop!

I was very interested in Paul Sycamore's comments re Euphonium players. As a youngster, struggling with mastering the euphonium, and bedazzled by the sound of brass, Trevor Groom was my 'hero'. To me, he was just 'it' when it came to how the instrument should be played, and how beautiful it could sound. I was also a great fan of John Clough: You were never on the 'edge of your seat' with John. You always knew it would be great. Then, many years later, I had the tremendous priveledge of playing in the same band as Tom Gomersall. Those of you who knew and heard him will know what's coming...... I got into trouble with the MD on several occasions because I would find myself, in rehearsal, laying my 'hooter' on my lap and just listening to him play. I know, it's very 'unprofessional' but wow, could that man make the instrument speak! Sadly, he's no longer with us, having succumbed to heart trouble several years ago. None of these great euphonium players (in my experience) ever resorted to cheap tricks and audio pyrotechnics to impress an audience. They didn't need to. Anyone who ever heard Trevor play "To A Wild Rose" will know exactly what I mean. From our current era I am quite a fan of Morgan Griffiths. I can't say I've heard him screaming through the euph either. Funny that...........

Roger Pearcey.

Youth in Edinburgh?
Could any body tell me if there is a brass band in the Edinburgh area which caters for youngsters, as one of my pupils is moving to the area, the pupil play's the cornet to grade one standard and is looking to join a junior band, any body able to help please email keith@cerddkj.fsnet.co.uk

Keith Jones

Open suggestions...
I have read with interest the comments regarding the recent Open contest, which, incidentally I greatly enjoyed, although I realise I am in a minority. There are two points in particular that strike me:

Firstly, there has been concern expressed that some bands are performing in a hall with a lot of empty seats. From my point of view, as a long-time player but a relatively new contest attendee (other than as a player 20 years ago)I do try to hear as many bands as possible. However, at an average of 20-25 minutes per band, it is not practical to stay in the hall throughout. As, therefore, I need breaks to eat, drink (not alcohol!) and perform other necessary activities, it is only natural to plan these breaks so as not to miss any of the most noted bands, who one would expect to perform well, or any bands that I have a particular personal interest in.

This naturally means missing two or more of the less-fancied bands throughout the day. I normally try to only miss one band at each break, but that is not always possible, given the length of queues for refreshments, toilets etc, not to mention the various trade stalls that form a central part of the day.

Would it be too revolutionary to suggest that one answer could be to build in two breaks, splitting the bands into groups of half a dozen? It would make the day slightly longer, but it could encourage a better attendance, although I realise with closed adjudication you would have the problem of what to do with the adjudicators - maybe another argument for open adjudication (sorry!).

The second question concerns the lack of information given to the audience as to what the adjudicators were looking for. Richard Jones in his letter questions whether they needed to have said anything, and I would agree that the musicality of the performances is of prime importance, but we are all critics by nature, and like to set ourselves up against the so-called experts. There were a few performances this year that met with a very good reception in the hall (particularly Grimethorpe) but which failed to currry favour with those in the box. It is all very well saying that they need not say anything because the bands would receive their comments in due course, but that does not help the paying audience, who may not have any allegiance to one camp or the other, but would just like a few pointers to see what had led to the decision made. At least we had some helpful words from the composer, who made the point that each band brought something of its own to the piece - just a pity what they brought didn't necessarily tally with what the adjudicators were expecting!

Dyke lack a certain Je ne sais quoi
Last saturday (september 28th) Black dyke band gave a concert in Lesquin (France).

One would expect that the Rolls Royce of all brass bands (as the French say) try to put some effort in the composition of their concert program. Once again I had to listen to pieces such as toccata in D minor, call of the cossacks, lucern song, ... Is it so hard for a band of your quality to perform a mayor test piece or to be original in programming your concerts??

By playing such concerts you give people the impression that it's only about taking the money and run. It's such a shame.

Piet Callens

Where the hell is this place!
My friends now think I was on some mind-bending drug when I wrote that
letter! I'm actually in La Palma, and there are no giant yellow birds to
speak of (apart from Spanish Sesame Street...)

4BR reply:
Let's put that down to the quirky 4BR humour....

Sicilian errors
I wonder if any other 1st section bands who are down to compete at Prestatyn later this month have noticed the amount of printing mistakes in both the score, but even more so, in the parts for Verdi's "Sicilian Vespers" Overture (published by Kirklees Music)? As we've only just really started looking at it in detail (after we'd got "Leonardo" out of our hair!) I noticed that the Eb Bass part (my part you might have guessed) was littered with errors, including;

- 7ths instead of Octaves in the split part
- A passage written a 4th too high (notated the same as the BBb Bass part, but sounding, obviously, different)
- Incorrect notes (loads of THEM - and not just because I was playing them wrong!!)
- Missing dynamics
- Missing crescendos
- Incorrect note values
- Missing rests
- Missing accents
- Bass parts do not match in pitch (and in a Verdi overture I think that they always should, don't you?!?)
- Score and parts not matching...

I could go on, but I don't think I need to!

The Eb Bass part is relatively simple, so I dread to think what mistakes lie undiscovered in other parts!! I'm a composer myself and understand that, of course, sometimes mistakes are inevitable, but this is just carelessness. For the money we paid for the Score and Set (which was £55) you'd think they could hire a proof reader!!! I don't object to paying £55, except when the music is inaccurate!! PLUS, tonight alone we wasted about 20 minutes practice time sorting out printing mistakes!! Am I wrong in thinking that you should be able to trust your part to be correct? Sorry to rant on a bit, but i'm really p****d off about this!! I only hope that all the bands can get their parts WRITTEN CORRECTLY, so then they can PLAY THEM without too much hassle!!!

Iain McKnight, Eb Bass, St. Austell Town Band

Killmarsh thumbs up...
I would just like to say what a brilliant day the lads and lasses of the Killamarsh band put on. Very well run, and everything on TIME. It was a pleasure to be invited and we hope we will be next year as i am sure it was a great success with everyone involved.

Mark C Wilkinson, Knottingley Silver Band

Killmarsh thumbs up and down...
i am writing to voice my views on the recent Killamarsh contest. Never before in my experience of brass band contests have i ever seen an entertainments contest not judge or give marks for entertainment or deportment. i am not sure whether there were supposed to be 2 adjudicators and 1 failed to turn up or what, but at no point either on stage or in remarks did Colin Hardy mention entertainment, deportment and stagecraft. While I accept that the whole ethos of contesting is to impress the adjudicator, and his opinion and hence decision is final, i think that this contest shows wha tlottery some contests are in the lower sections. In my view Section B was judged very wrongly considering the nature of the contest, with the 3rd place band giving by far the most professional and entertaining performance.

Apart from the results, an excellent contest which was enjoyed by all (apart from the result) and was very well organised.

Colin Harding

Jackfield want promotion
It has come to my attention that there is a rumour circulating that Jackfield (Elcock Reisen) have appealed against there promotion to the Championship Section in an effort to stay in the First Section come the 2003 contesting year but are being forced to go up.

Can I say on behalf of the players and the committee that this is untrue. We are looking forward to it with enthusiasm and having earned the chance we are going to take it and give it like any other promoted band in any other section our best shot.

Many of the players like myself have been with the band since the Fourth section so to achieve this has made it even more special.

So I hope that puts the records straight and if there are any players out there who want ago in the championship section but cant find a suitable band visit our website, www.jackfieldband.org.uk, see what we are about then give me a call.

But remember as well as the normal criteria of dedication, commitment and lots of home practise you need to be able to come down the pub afterwards let your hair down and have a pint.

One other point for those bands going to Pontin's in the First section are you finding as many mistakes with your band parts as we are with ours? We've had umpteen wrong notes and missing dynamics and even missing bar lines for the cornets, although they still seemed to be able to get to the end at the same time as the rest of the band.

Does 4bars rest or any one know if the publishers have sent out an error correction sheet?

Darrin Smith, Jackfield (Elcock Reisen) Band

People of Kent - Get to Band!
Despite having a number of elements most brass bands would give the fingers on their right hand for, such as their own bandroom and a dedicated and gifted Musical Director, Cantium Brass Band, situated just outside Canterbury, Kent, may not make it into 2003 simply because they are lacking the one ingredient essential to all Brass Bands - a team of committed players.

Numbers have dwindled dramatically at Cantium since their appearances at Preston and the Albert Hall Finals in recent years where they represented London and the South East in the Third Section. Earlier this year the band played at the "area" several players short - and still managed a creditable fifth in the Second Section.

Since then attendances at rehearsal have been poor. A "hard core" of ten or so players have, along the with Caniutm's MD, Mr John Goold, successfully negotiated the Summer Season, appearing regularly at functions and fetes and, of course, the many Band Stand jobs, which keep the pennies rolling in.

With a number of talented musicians at Cantium, the standard of the music making is, for the area at least (no disrespect to other bands), fairly good despite the lack of commitment from some players. However at a recent meeting Mr Goold expressed his frustration with the low numbers at rehearsal and as a consequence Cantium will not be appearing at the Folkestone Brass Band Contest this year.

The exact reason for the fall in numbers is unclear but several factors must be considered including players moving out of the area with their jobs, the deplorable state of brass teaching in schools in Kent (do school kids have the opportunity to learn brass instruments in Kent?) and the general laziness (in my opinion) of the brass players in the area (this is based on learning cornet at age 8 in South Wales and competing there until last year).

So, if you're a brass player (and if you aren't I think you're lost, butt) in Kent and you're looking for a new challenge come for a blow. If you're playing with a band in the area and fancy a change, come for a blow - no hassle. If you want to listen to some good brass music, come and visit us. Rehearsals take place at 7.30 to 9.30 on Monday and Wednesday at Chartham Hatch, Canterbury, Kent.

For more details contact John Goold at:
brassedoff@cantiumbrass.co.uk
For directions to the bandroom follow the link:
http://www.cantiumbrass.co.uk

Hopefully I will be able to report a turn around in fortunes in the near future.

B.Thomas, Cantium Brass Band

Bob looking for Mortimer...
I am trying to find out if there is a CD of Harry Mortimer playing the cornet or his music being played by various guest bands. I especially like cornet pieces as it takes me back to my childhood when my dad used to take me to Bath parade gardens often on a Sunday afternoon to listen to guest bands playing in the park always deckchairs full of interested enthusiasts, Can you suggest a CD that might fit the bill, please write back giving details where I can get hold of my dream brass band CD.

Bob Wyatt. (Bath).
bobearp@breathemail.net

Lousie looking for Backdraft...
Where can I find a CD that has the soundtack of the film Backdraft played by brass.

Louise
partridgelouise@hotmail.com

Congratulations Jaguars
Just a quick note to add my congratulations to all the guys
at The Jaguar (Coventry) Band. As a past member of the
Bass section, I would like the opportunity to be kept informed
of the proposed reunion if possible.

Mike Norton

Nationals - Torquay 1
Thanks for a great coverage of the Torquay Finals weekend. I had a Saturday rehearsal with Hampshire County Youth Band and a concert on the Sunday afternoon, so was unable to go to the contest to support my former band Ocean Brass.

When I came home on Saturday afternoon I logged on, then off. This went on all day, following your comments throughout. What a time to finish!

On Sunday, when the first section took place I logged on after our concert, and read you comments with interest. They didn't alwys reflect the results but they kept us informed. Again a late finish and Ocean Brass came an admirable seventh. Well done to all the band and their new conductor. We came seventh in our last Finals at the RAH in 2000 in the Second Section. At least they are consistent.

Thank you once again. Super coverage, and as soon as it happens.

Leighton Rich

Nationals - Torquay 2
Thanks guys for the prediction of our band (Derwent Brass) taking 4th spot in the 1st section - which is exactly what we got - obviously we'll be watching your future predictions with renewed interest!!!. Your overall comments about the timing etc of the contest are spot on, nothing more need be said and let's hope next year's finals run to plan. On a positive note I thought the general running of the event was very good indeed; I have many many times, over past years, moaned and groaned about bands not being allowed to make a sound for 15 - 20 minutes before taking the stage - even when a warm up room is provided bands are then ushered into registration with stern warnings from over zealous officials not to make a sound. What a refreshing change then last Sunday to be able to register, then go into warm up where we were allowed to play full band sound (i.e. blow our ****'s off) then straight onto stage! Great, well done to everyone organising, this is exactly as it should be and let's hope other contest organisers can take note. Many thanks to the back stage staff/stewards (and nice to see some smiling faces and humour back stage for a change)

Keith Leonard, MD Derwent Brass

Nationals - Torquay 3
Hi guys, just a note to correct this page http://www.4barsrest.com/articles/art227.asp reference to Silk's Principal Cornet. As of a few weeks ago the band's principal cornet is Steven Rose and not Nicky Longden as stated. Realise the page is somewhat retrospective now and that you may have even spotted the difference - Steve has shorter hair;)

Thanks for a great website and for your encouragement and smiles on saturday! (Returning to banding for my 3rd stint on Sop not many months back, I need some encouragement)

Ken Norbury, Sop Cornet, Silk Brass

Nationals - Torquay 4
Just a short note to congratulate all those involved at 4BR for the coverage at the finals, I thought it was first class, most of your comments were spot on, you just did not get your predictions right, but hey! did the adjudicators? they only ever get it right for one band, and thats the winners, but there's always next year, and boy oh boy,they have picked some
great pieces for the areas, with the exception of one, dare I be brave enough, although as a player I think the piece is fantastic, PRAGUE!!! I think the halls will be empty, its hard enough to get people in to listen now , am I the only one that thinks this? I would be very interested in your comments, keep up the good work, I think your brill

Derek Johnston, MD Hayle Town Band Cornwall.

4BR reply:
Thanks for writing - we'll be giving our detailed thoughts on 'Prague' closer to the time when we do our test piece review... We've had a good listen to the new Regionals 2003 CD and we think it may be one we'll like!

Nationals - Torquay 5
Thank you for the brilliant 'live' coverage of the Torquay contest. It was great to be able to log on every couple of hours and get a general picture of what was going on, especially as I was following a number of bands and players in the various sections - the 'star' player was a nice touch, although this may only suceed in inflating already oversized ego's !!!!!!

However, it was a shame that the relatively simple matter of timings wasn't sorted out and the contest over-ran...big time. That said, this problem isn't exclusive and I have been to many contests which have over-run causing problems with coaches/fatigue and the little matter of getting up for work the next day !!! Matthews Band had already withdrawn from the contest due to this forseen problem.

Solution... well obviously the matter will be discussed and presumably things will be better next time. Although I feel that having the contest in Dundee in 2003 just moves the difficulties that some bands will face from one end of the country to another and bands (especially those competing on the sunday) will withdraw just because they cannot get home in a reasonable time.

My solution ???. Whilst I can see the niceties of moving this contest around the country, I believe in practice it doesn't work, ie some venues work better than others and a pre-draw would be unfair and affect audience levels. It will be said that each year some bands will find it easier than others to get to a particular location, and that this will even out over time (the location of the 2002 and 2003 finals bear this point out). I have also heard it said that there were no complaints when the finals were always held in London (this could be something to do with the fact that Luton ISN'T that far..!!) So.....why not BIRMINGHAM as a permanent home for the lower section finals. Geographically it is central and whilst I appreciate that bands from Scotland and the South-west of England would still have to travel a long distance it's got to be the best compromise...hasn't it ???? What do you think..is my idea too revolutionary !!!!

4BR reply:
There's a lot to be said to moving things around the country but after this years event, it inevitably means that the question of a fixed home will arise once more. London as a home certainly gives a certain credence to any event whilst Birmigham has its Symphony Hall has proved a super venue for the Open. However - if bands want a fixed home for the event they should contact the BFBB formally. As for us - we enjoyed our weekend in Torquay and in the look forward to our trip to Dundee next year.

Nationals - Torquay 6
I thought you might like to know of another late night contest. Playing for Epsom and Ewell in the third section in 1985, I went on stage at 11-50 pm on Sunday at the areas at Watford Town Hall, and came off at 12.05 am Monday morning. There was another band behind us, and we got home at 3-30 in the morning.

I was competing at Torquay last week, and was delighted with the way everybody remained so good-natured. This was not the case in 1985, when organisors were met with boos and were shouted down during the closing comments.

Andy Wilson, Y&WD Band

Nationals - Torquay 7
I was playing in the 3rd Section on Saturday. The Registration procedure and the warm up facilities were very good I thought, but the organisers got the timing totally screwed up. The first band went on stage at 4.00pm, already two hours late, so the 4th Section over-ran as well. We were drawn 9 and went on about 8.15pm, having arrived at 1.00pm in time for the draw. The last band finished at 12.15am and we left the centre after the results at about 12.50am. They stopped selling hot food at 7.00pm and everyone had to go out into the town to find a chippy or a takeaway. I wasn't in the bar, but I think that closed early too!

Before we went on stage I bumped into a member of the organising committee in the Gents. He made a point of apologising for the delay and blamed the choice of music. He said the organisers had been told by the music selection panel that Cherchebi was 13 minutes long, whereas it actually lasts 19 - 21 minutes. He said he wanted every band to write to the BFBB to complain about the duration of the music.

But the more I thought about this, the more it sounded like buck-passing. Yes, the music was long and this caused the very late finish. But the organisers could and should have checked on this when the choice was made and rejected it if they couldn't accommodate the number of bands. They even appointed the composer, Goff Richards, as Adjudicator - he would have surely told them the correct duration if they had asked him.

Obviously, it took a couple of hours before it dawned on everyone that we were in for a very late night. By that time Band 4 was nearly finished and as we were No 9 our Bandmaster felt we should all stay together at the Riviera Centre, rather than letting us disappear for a while. This meant we were hanging about for 7 hours before we went into action. We were placed 13th and everyone felt disappointed with their own performance, even the MD. We blame this mostly on the long wait. I feel there should have been a pre-draw, so that each band could be given an approximate time they were needed, allowing them to
plan their day more sensibly.

On the Sunday the restaurant staff told me they would have been quite willing tocarry on serving food and drink right up till the end. They said they were instructed by the contest organisers to stop serving at 7.00pm as none would be needed after that!! What a fiasco.

Peter Taylor, Yiewsley & West Drayton Band

Nationals - Torquay 8
By way of introduction, I am the father of a 'very little' percussionist that played in Carlton Brass Section three at some ungodly hour of the night - but you have already gone over that one very eloquently in your general overview.

A point I would like to make to whoever needs to know, but which does not seem to have been touched on, was the lack of sufficient music stands for the percussionists, particularly for a piece of music where in many cases to ensure that two percs were not seen to be running around like proverbial b-a flies (and in one case playing one instrument with one hand while banging the glock with the other) , the band's musical director decided on three percs to bash, hammer and ting the triangle.

I naturally talk with a bias towards my 10-year old son who coped very well with the lack of facilities and who, at that late hour found a way round the situation, but who should not have been put in that situation in the first place. He insists that it did not cause him a problem, but as a parent I could argue that point. The hall was also lucky not to have had a mother upsetting the general calm by telling the shoulder shrugging compere to get himself in gear and make himself into a stand.

The same situation occured with the next 3-perc band who were also lacking - something finally put right by a galant brass player in the band.

I would have thought that the powers that be would have had a few extra bits and pieces just in case of emergencies, but then if they can't work out how long a piece of music is... The bands are hyped up enough to play their best without any other problem being thrust upon them.

Final point - this was the second Finals my son has been lucky enough to attend but this was the first where we have been directed at the contents of your 'mag.' - it has brought all the stress and strains of competing back into focus!

Nick Burnett

Nationals - Torquay 9
I would like to thank through your web site all the well wishers and congratulation messages to my band Silk Brass (Champion Band of Great Britain 3rd Section 2002).

It was a difficult day, and it was a great testiment to our M.D who suggested that our band go for a trip out during the day to Brixham due to the unfortunate cockup with the timings. Sun tanned and relaxed, the band played a blinder on stage.

As to the comments made about our 2nd cornet player Dave Black, Dave was a little miffed, but as a true bandsman, took it on his chin (no pun intended Dave).

Congratulations to Wire and Middleton (just shows you, go down south to contest, come back up to the Northwest to see the trophies). In reply to Ian Sanders comments at Wire - This was the first occasion for myself and my 14 year old son Ben (4th man down) to meet members from this band, and what a great bunch, I am well looking forward to meeting next year (and hopefully putting you into 2nd place again) joking apart, good rivalry never did any band any harm.Once again, thanks to everybody.

Andy Bradley, Band Manager/1st Horn

Nationals - Torquay 10
Thank you for your kind comments regarding our performance at the National finals in Torquay , and yes I agree that we should get more points in your ranking system for stamina !! It was a hell of a day for most of the bands competing , but somehow we were able to stay focused (at least until after we played). You commented that you could hear the conductors ' impassioned vocal encouragement' during our performance and hoped that it wouldn't come out on the recording . Well it did !! It's funny but I didn't hear him on stage !! The week after we played at Wychavon Entertainment contest , and won the first section . Not bad for a weeks work. Just one final note.......please don't tip us to do anything at Pontins. You seem to have the kiss of death for most of the bands you tip. Great web site . Keep up the good work.

Paul White, Principal Cornet, The Staffordshire Band

Nationals - Torquay 11
I have waited a little while before commenting on the events at Torquay, but there seems to be a lack of recognition of the cause of the timing problems.

Mention has been made in certain quarters that the test pieces were too long, that bands took too long to set up and that getting on and off stage at the same time delayed events. The fact is that all those things did happen, but they could have been planned for.

The basic error seems to be a lack of recognition of the number of bands competing. Take the fourth section for example which had 21 competing bands - simple maths and a basic assumption of 4 bands to the hour tells you that 5 hours 15 minutes are required to complete the section. Why then did they schedule the third section to start only 4 hours after the fourth section started?

The question must be asked what will happen in Dundee next year. The fact that Dundee has been announced as a venue must mean that the contest hall (s?) has been booked. Will we find out if 2 arenas are available to allow 2 sections tro run consecutively, or are we to expect 40 bands to perform on one stage in the day?

My band played in the third section, normally we would be mortified with a draw of number 2, but at least we played at a reasonable hour. Well done to all those bands that managed to stage so well at ridiculous times of the night.

Incidentally, the organisation on the day was superb and despite all of the factors above, the contest was run very efficiently. Thanks should go to all the stewards and volunteers who helped out over the weekend. Hope they didn't get too much of an earbashing.

Ian Plant

Nationals - Torquay 12 - CD Quality...
I would first like to say thank you for your comments on our band post national finals and one the aftermath. I was just querrieng really, Is everyones live recording by pm sound of the same standard. Our recording is really not that good, it lacks any sound dynamics at all. The whole peice is of the same volume which dosent do any band any justice. Its just that when you pay for a cd you want to hear all the hard work you put into it and let me tell you the kids in our band put in some overtime!!!! Somthings got to be done mayb more than one mike. This is not a snipe in any way but i feel somthing should be done.

Luke St Dennis Band

Nationals - Torquay 13
The 2002 finals cost our band many £1,000's and much hard work and fundraising. Fortunately the weather was fine and Torquay has a lot going for it – we all had a great time. However, there is already talk of "what if we qualify for the 2003 finals in Dundee...

Yes we will do our best in the Areas, and hopefully get promoted, but already we have one or two people in the band who have expressed serious doubts about wanting to travel to Dundee (if we are fortunate to qualify again of course). It just isn't worth all that time and effort practising a test piece, travelling all the way to Dundee, with two nights in a hotel being a necessity for us - and to play for twenty minutes.

If players do drop out, we are obviously not at 100%, even if we can get others to fill their position – so what is the point of even considering the finals?

When bands actually study a map of Great Britain and realise just where Bonnie Dundee is, I believe there will be many who will just not consider it worth attending the 2003 finals. I have heard a number of stories from bands about their 7, 10, 12 (and more) hour coach trips back from Torquay – they'd better get used to it.

Al Roland

Nationals - Torquay 14
I am a new convert to your site after spending time reading your comments about the national finals. I think you did a good job and provided a worthwhile service to those of us not currently with a band. Is there a section on your site for bands to advertise vacancies as I would like to play with a band again after having spent some time away. I am a euphonium player and music teacher from West Yorkshire and would like a 2nd euph/bari position in a 1st, 2nd, 3rd section Yorkshire band.

Emma Thornton

4BR reply:
Emma - watch out for our forthcoming classifieds section...

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