Comments ~ 2002: September (Part 1)

Comments from September 2002 (Part 1)

Plenty of opinions from the Open - you know ours, so this is what others thought of the day.

The Price is Right?
Got the results on my mobile on Saturday night. This is a tremendous service. Thanks. By the way if you are buying drink for Peter Roberts then you can owe me one as in your Open facts number 100 Templemore were 5th in 1959. Great site keep up the good work.

Brian Connolly

4BR Reply:
Thanks Brian - however we think we will have to go to arbitration on this one. According to our records Agnes Street came 5th in 1959, but a look at Arthur Taylor's book suggests you were right. Can someone adjudicate please - there's a pint in it for someone!

The Open - 1
Having listened to all the performances at the open! i would love to know and ask why the 3 bands that played the correct tempo marking in the second section, being in my eyes Grimethorpe, YBS and Travelsphere were slated for that!!!!!

Surely if the composer marks a section at a certain tempo and these three bands perform that, how can they be docked because of this!!!! When bands such as the dyke take it so much faster its no wonder the section sounded boring when it Came to the 3 bands stated!!!! May be the composer should have been in the Box to put the 3 judges correct to there idea of the correct tempo marking!!!!! To Grimethorpe, YBS, and Travelsphere, well played!!!! I'm sure john McCabe would thank you for performing the piece how he wanted it!!!!!!

Roger from Northampton.

The Open - 2
Very good coverage of the Open. I'm still puzzled as to why there is never any national or provincial press coverage of such events. By the way, did you see the report that Austrian animal psychologists have proved that cats like music? I've got one that likes brass! (see www.colwyn1.freeserve.co.uk Alas......unfortunately I set all the neighbours dogs howling when I practice.

Dave Williams. Colwyn Bay.
p.s. No wonder the English bands were scared of Corys playing in the Masters

The Open - 3
Just been catching up on your latest open articles and discovered you'd been hanging out at the cafe last Saturday - if I'd known that I'd have had a better chance of identifying you to buy you those beers I promised! I'll have to get Grezzy to point you out next time.

Interesting to hear your thoughts on the placings. Didn't hear any other bands myself so can't comment on the others - all I can say is that I really enjoyed taking part in our performance, and we all (especially Dave) felt we'd put on a good show. Obviously a bit disappointed with the results, but we made the most of it and drowned our sorrows with Grimey!

Site continues to deliver good stuff - thanks for that. My mate in Ukraine would be lost without it - he now manages to stay about as up-to-date with all things banding-wise as I do!

Gillian Clark

The Open - 4
I am surprised and very disappointed that when you comment on a retrospective basis, in the main they fall in line with the placing of the bands, rather than back-up your original comments when you are hearing the bands play.

In particular I would like you to review your comments on Travelsphere Holidays Band. On listening to the piece you comment on "A competent reading with quality moments but not sustained throughout" are these remarks of a band that you would have placed 17th.

In retrospect you feel that "Travelsphere in the last three years have gone from 7th in 2000, to 10th last year and now 17th. They didn't play well this year and will have to perform very well next time around to avoid the Grand Shield drop.

For the masters you were not impressed with the performance on the day but when they achieved 3rd Place you felt that it was well deserved.

Has the final placing of the adjudicators got anything to do with this or do you just change your mind of your own free will!!.

Karl Hobbs
Concert Secretary
Travelsphere Holidays Band

The Open - 5
I couldn't agree more with your critique of this music, which is what it most certainly was. It was so descriptive and atmospheric - absolutely superb music. What a pity the so-called banding punters treated it with some much public scorn at the Open by leaving the Hall.

Surely if these people are 'band fans' then they should have the courtesy to acknowledge firstly the talent and time expended by the composer in creating such music even if it wasn't their typical choice of loud and fast gallery enders. Secondly even those bands that really struggled to play it despite no doubt many weeks of rehearsal deserve the common courtesy of being heard. In reality these bands probably spent much longer putting together due to their individual and corporate lower skill level than those bands that were in the frame. The people who only listen to the name bands must surely just be glory-seekers and can never really learn any better without listening to what makes a good performance sound so much better than the average ones - not to mention those that never come to life!

I do enjoy percussion but wasn't it good to have much quicker band changes than is the current norm.

Yes the music was akin to certain parts of 'Cloudcatcher fells' but both pieces are so full of music and should not be dismissed by the carpers! Well done, John McCabe.

Finally a suggestion. It was good to read your comments on the individual band performances but why not give us your top six bands. I have a feeling that you would have perhaps been significantly different in several cases.

Keep up the good work with your website. Well done!


David White
Guisborough
Cleveland

The Open - 6
I am expecting a torrent of abuse from the banding fraternity concerning The Maunsell Forts - "its just noise", "boring", "can't tell the difference between one band's performance and another", "I want my money back" being phrases which were floating around all day [well, amongst the publishable ones] at Symphony Hall, but I'd like to leap to its defence, and perhaps suggest why it didn't seem to go down well.

Firstly, it's a classic. No note was out of place, there were no silly aleatoric bell passages, no dodgy section links. On the other hand it also didn't have any cadenzas, no rousing finish, no Sparke-esque scalic running passages. It was all about tone quality, balance, intonation, ensemble phrasing, interpretation - ahh, music in fact! 'The Maunsell Forts' is a chamber piece for band, with no dynamic above ff, and substantial amounts of the piece played at mp downwards. In as much it was a tremendously challenging piece because before you could actually get this piece to make sense, you had to be a damn good band.

It was also challenging for the listener, but it was worth it. Each performance fleshed out how McCabe had structured his piece, illuminated by the different MDs' interpretations - Fodens' warm understanding of the complex harmonies, Black Dyke's exquisite opening and closing movements, YBS's cool and chilling vision, Cory's marvellous detail in the central sections...

But then I was lucky. I was sitting in the choir seats, directly behind the bands. From there I could hear with total clarity, amongst other things, the overlapping patterns of the ascending figures in the opening and closing sections of the piece. When I went to sit at the other side of the hall, I realised why people had been complaining in the lobby. It was a wash of sound - none of the finely crafted detail filtering through.

Maybe then, the hall was to blame? Symphony Hall can adapt itself to different acoustic needs more than most concert halls in the world. Perhaps on this occasion the organisers should have dried out the acoustic instead of imitating the Albert Hall?

If Bands have become so technically acute that they can bring off such a delicately complex piece of chamber music, don't they deserve to have their skills heard?

Daffyd Jones

The Open - 7
Much has been said recently about the continued success and flourishing of the British Open Championships. I have no doubt that moving to the wonderful Symphony Hall in Birmingham and the commissioning of superb new test pieces have been major contributors to this. However I also believe the move to a more transparent entry system has played a major part in increasing the enthusiasm of ordinary bandsmen & women.

Not so many years ago gaining entry to the Grand Shield was something of a black art for many 'lesser known bands' and therefore the dream of qualifying for the Open itself was too distant for it to bear any reality to a band's ongoing activities. When this changed I and several of my Kirkie band colleagues found the thought of driving down to listen to the contest much more appealing and it no doubt spurred us on to try even harder to make the breakthrough - every year we talked about how it would be great to actually play in the event rather than sit in the audience missing out on the
adrenalin buzz that only competing can bring. I know of many other players from our part of the world who think the same way.

I feel further that Martin & Karyn Mortimer should be congratulated for their gamble of increasing the Spring festival with the introduction of the Senior Cup & Senior Trophy. These contests will hopefully grow in stature (and
audiences!) over the next few years, however I am sure they have already substantially increased interest in the whole Open family of contests as many bands now have a clear view of their possible route to the big time.

No doubt at this time of year in the run up to the Nationals we will start to hear again the arguments for changing its qualification structure which will inevitably threaten the participation chances of many 'lesser known bands'. I would urge the people pushing for change to think of where the audiences come from these days and not to risk alienating the large proportion of them that is made up of bandsmen & women who are still chasing their own dream of one day stepping onto the stage to compete against the very best.

It seems to me that the organisers of the Nationals must remain strongly opposed to any changes to the qualification criteria. We must ensure as many bands as possible have the opportunity to set their own targets to help maintain the general increase in quality of bands performances. Otherwise
we will see our other major national contest moving in the wrong direction whilst the Open continues to lead the way with its innovative forward-looking policies. And more importantly we shall risk setting in motion the gradual
reduction in playing quality that a reduced number of bands attempting to break through would surely bring.

Allan Wardrope
Glasgow

The Open - 8
Having read your preview and retrospective articles on this year's Open I feel compelled to write. I have been a very regular visitor to the site since the outset and find that it eloquently provides a media service (with news, gossip etc) that is not provided elsewhere.

I have to say, however, that I find the general tone of this year's Open coverage to have been rather patronising to the paying punter. As soon as the nights start to draw in I always look forward to the annual pilgrimage to the Open. It is the best field of bands playing in probably the best venue, acoustically, of all of the regular Major venues and as a bonus only 15 miles from my front door.

I don't consider that I am an 'old fart', certainly in the sense originally intended by Mr WDC Carling, and I certainly don't want old transcriptions or 15 minutes of pyrotechnics each year. I do want, however, a sense of drama, of theatre. I want to feel that 27-28 players are on the edge of their seat straining every sinew to provide a performance for me. Whether that be a haunting solo or extraordinary dexterity of a player, a section or the whole band. I want to feel emotionally engaged by the performance.

Mr McCabe has probably forgotten more than I'll ever know about writing for contests and if ever Sue Lawley ever runs out of suitable candidates for the Desert Island and gives me a call, I'll tell her that Cloudcatcher fells will be one of my records but this year, for me (and many others that I spoke to) missed the mark. In my opinion, the slow movement at the start showed promise, the middle movement didn't really go anywhere and then it rather tailed off.

I know that the regular contributors to this site have far more experience of top class banding than I have, and I respect you for it, but please don't tell me that I and many others are clearly wrong or 'old farts' or should use our intelligence if we don't like it. We just don't share your view.

Other than that, keep up the good work.

Martyn Pattinson
Kidderminster

The Open - 9
Once again I feel the need to apologise to the hard working and long suffering members of the brass band world who work so hard to achieve success in competitions only to be thwarted by a band who deserve nothing, ie. My own band, Cwmaman Institute.

Our recent 5th place in the British Open was without doubt one of the proudest moments in my (banding) life. It was, as you pointed out, a shock and a very pleasant surprise.

The only answer I can offer for the result is that the adjudicators (what do they know anyway?) liked our performance more than others (14 others actually). Maybe everyone didn't agree with them but then who does? We've certainly had what we considered to be poor decisions in the past (who hasn't?).

Therefore my reason for writing is twofold. Firstly, to congratulate The Cory Band on a wonderful and well deserved success and to thank the individuals, both from Cory's and other bands who had so many kind words of support, encouragement and congratulations for us.

Secondly, to thank those people who could not bring themselves to speak to me on Saturday. You obviously believed that we had not worked hard enough to achieve any level of success. I wish you well in the future (but please learn to take your knocks - we all have to at some time - without crying in your beer!).

J C RUGMAN

The Open - 10
Thank you for The Coverage of the Open once again - superb build up, plenty of information of interest and good coverage on the day and your reflective views are spot on. Along with my partner, I sat through all 19 - yes all 19 performances, and have no quarms about the top two placings - they outshone
the rest by a country mile.

The music? Well, great stuff, again your thoughts beforehand were spot on, but I have to question whether it was really suitable for a major contest - yes, as a brass-band medium we need to be educated, but the audience voted with its feet and with the exception of 6-8 performances, it was half empty, most of the time, so what does that tell us? I believe that a lot of performances on Saturday were unconvincing.

In other words, the players/conductors didn't like the music and so didn't give it their all. If that was the case, and you spend, say, 4 weeks rehearsing, knowing you won't win, then why bother in the first place? You've got to believe in the music to get something out of it!! Personally, a big finish, solo's doesn't bother me, as long as there is something in the music for all concerned. On Saturday, the music had plenty, but I believe the bands didn't want to find it. You will hear a full performance no doubt on Radio 3 in the near future, but could Maunsell Forts become another 'Songs for BL?'- lets face it, it will not be played in full on Frank Renton's Listen to the Band programme

If my thoughts are outspoken, I apologise, but yes, I did feel cheated having sat through all the performances as to not get even an idea as to what the judges were looking for - I may not be as qualified as them or players on the stage, but I still have a good ear, and know the difference between, winners and losers - I even agree that Cwmaman Institute Silver deserved a place - John Hudson is a very fine musician and brought the best out of his players when it mattered

I have no affinity with any band, but I would like to say congratulations to all the winners - great to see B & R back in the frame again - a very 'traditional' Yorkshire sound and through your site, please Alan Wycherley, get the solo CD cut soon - what a gem, he was the star of the show on Saturday by a long way

Joanne Livsey, Manchester

The Open - 11
I must be an 'Old Fart' as your report on the Maunsell Forts suggests. I Understand it is a piece of music in it's own rite bla bla.... But! It should have stayed at the BBC as a movie track or theme to documentary about The Maunsell Forts!

I have had about thirty years in banding, some in the top section. I have to ask who chose that piece? I asked a number of competitors at the Open, players From a number of top bands, some in the prizes. the general consensus when asked, "How do you like this test piece?" Was not agreeable to the choice of Maunsell Forts. I did ask a good number of players and even an Ex Open Champion Conductor. The best answer I got was "It's alright." The rest ranged from Awful - to words I cannot repeat. I'm sure the audience felt the same.

The most important people in a contest are the players give them something they enjoy playing. It is a hobby for both player and listener. Lets not turn it into some kind of Radio Three elitist clique. When Mr. John Macabe himself was introduced to the open audience, he was not greeted with a great swell of enthusiastic applause. It was a polite ripple to say the least. Some even booed, which was out of order. The man is obviously a musical genius and far more talented than 99% of the people who occupied the auditorium. But! I empathised with them.

I speak as a bandsman through and through. It was hard work to listen to, and a good friend of mine from Fairey said it he has never been so fed up with a test piece in all his life. I don't think he has missed an Open since 1981. I respect this man's opinion.

Just because the BBC commissioned the work does not make it a test piece! If the BBC are so keen to get into banding all at once why don't they have more bands on television and radio? When you see some of the things on BBC. I suggest the BBC are best kept away from Brass Bands and concentrate on making documentaries which no one watches!

God Bless, Here's to the next Open
Yours.
Tom Johnson (44 year old, "Old Fart" as you put it!)

The Open - 12
Well I read your articles on yesterdays test piece, I went with an open mind, determined not be one of the ''old farts'' as you so delicately put it.

The British Open is undoubtedly the biggest day in the band year and yesterday in my humble opinion, we had a massive let down.

I have no doubts as to the quality of Mr Mcabe's writing, but the atmosphere in the hall was as flat as anything i have experienced in recent times. The music simply did nothing to inspire us paying customers, and I for one went home extremely disappointed. Call me an old fart if you like but I was at the Europeans in Brussels this year as you guys were, you tell me which day was more exciting?

Yes, yesterday the music was very well constructed, yes, Cory and Fodens produced super shows (interesting to note that despite all that was written about the quiet atmospheric music the two loudest bands on the day finished first and second!!)

But comparative entertainment in the two contests - only one winner - why? A test piece in Brussels which was new (so no harping on about the old favourites) that had excitement and produced total absorbment from a gripped audience.

Lets hope 2003 chooses its music more carefully.

Ian Young

The Open - 13
Further to your comments about the best band being no longer in either Yorkshire or Lancashire, I can tell you that the members of both Fodens and Fairey bands have long held this belief. Although to some, generally those south of Watford Junction, anywhere "North" is either Yorkshire, Lancashire or Scotland, we at the above two bands are confident that the best bands in Britain hail from
Cheshire (Sandbach and Stockport)!

Well done to Cory, looking forward to another good scrap at the Nationals.

Phil Green - Fodens Band

Eddie Williams
"You asked for information about Eddie Williams, MD of the St. Dennis band from 1958 - 83.

Unfortunately Eddie sadly died in 1983 - a great loss to the banding world. A former solo horn with B&R and the Fairey band Eddie, returned to his native Cornwall in 1958 to become MD of the St Dennis Band .He created a youth band soon after and the achievements of this and senior band are legendary here in Cornwall and beyond. The youth band were National Champions twice in successive years in the early seventies - no mean feat when you consider that they were truly a village band totally trained by Mr Williams. (I think Tredegar Youth band were strong rivals at that time?) Always a contender at the Pontin's finals they won that in 1978 and came close many times.

Locally I think that they never lost a contest over a period of near 12 years. I was fortunate to become a member in 1978 and some of the performances still stick in my mind to this day (our standard 'own choice' test piece for instance was 'Le Corsair'). Great times for young players and truly inspirational. The influence that this man had is still evident right across the bands in Cornwall, as players trained by him still play with bands in the area! His achievements with the Senior band were as memorable, St. Dennis band being dominant (along with Camborne) in the West of England area in the 60s and 70s (Sun life would later take over)
Eddie's achievements were recognised later as he was a recipient of the Iles Medal in 1982.

Your correspondent Mike Dowrick (is this the Michael Dowrick that played Trombone in the youth band of the seventies and later joined the Royal Marines?) mentioned the lack of information about Eddie Williams in the television programme. I suspect this was purely down to editing. The original intention was to make a series featuring a number of bands in Cornwall (including my own, Bodmin) but as usual with brass bands and the media, the programme makers were keen, but the television company managed to reduce the original idea to one half hour programme, which had a lot of information to include, about the successes of the present band.

The present Musical Director is Brian Minear - a former member of the Band in the 60s, 70s until he left in 1981,then as Solo Euphonium. He returned as MD in 2000 (I think) and the band has had a resurgence of form, with local and national successes. It would be really great to see this famous name return to its previous heights and as the TV programme showed things are moving in the right direction.

Aaron Harvey

St. Dennis on the web?
Yes St Dennis are on the web. The site address is www.stdennisband.co.uk
I play sop for the band and thoroughly enjoy it.

Andrew Julian

Zog Revisited!
After a most illuminating chat with someone in the know, I have to admit that I feel I now understand the issues I alluded to in my original comments much better. The power of the internet to answer questions!

Reading between the lines it seems that there is something of a battle of minds going on in the administration of bands. It would seem that the Federation are trying to apply some common sense and indeed apply the rules fairly. Here, here I say.

I don't want to go into too much detail, but it seems for example that Kibworth, (a band I used to conduct by the way), were third in line for promotion in the Midlands league table. The area demoted three bands, so why weren't they promoted automatically? Is it personal?

There seems to be too much "interpretation" of the rules by some area committees and mis-reporting of the issues going on. It would be very helpful to resolve these very confusing issues if the people who are involved
could report the facts more clearly.

The only reason I asked if anyone could explain how these decisions are being made was to save similar issues occurring with bands I am involved with and to
try and stop misunderstandings occurring. What has come also out of this is how little I understand the rules ....... In fact does anyone ever read them?

It is too easy to stand back and have a pot shot and people who give of their time to help administer the band world and it is nice to be able to clarify issues. I would try to encourage the federation to recruit a PR person, who can communicate issues to us clearly. Otherwise all we end up with is a
mishmash of uninformed and misleading journalism.

Stephen Tighe

4BR Reply:
A difficult topic here Stephen. We don't think it will ever be sorted out satisfactorily for everyone concerned - although we do know it is very damaging to the reputation of the movement as a whole.

The World's Greatest Cornet Player
The greatest cornet soloist of all time was James F. Burke who studied under Del Staigers (the greatest soloist of his time) and Ernest S. Williams, the great bandmaster and soloist.

James Burke became soloist with the Goldman Band at age 19 in New York from 1943-1975. He was also principle trumpet with the Baltimore Symphony from 1943-1950 and had no equal in the art of double and triple tonguing.

He accomplished all of this and more despite the fact that he only had the use of his left arm and hand. He died in 1981 at the age of 58.

Mark O'Keeffe

4BR Reply:
Anyone enlighten us further?

Wet weather Protection!
The bandmen & women at the games had no wet weather protection on the night of the closing ceremony. They got wet like everyone else!

We did have free issue plastic macs, provided by the Games organisers for the rehearsal on the Thursday when it was equally wet, as did all the other
performers.

Mark
Glossop Old Band
We were there, we got wet!

Constructive criticism
Please take the following comments as constructive criticism of your website as I feel certain inaccuracies spoil what is an excellent effort.

I have seen Cwmaman and Cwmanan on the same page. (being not far from you in Wales and with modern technology this should be picked up).

The South West region does not exist - It is the West of England. There are a number of others but I am sure you get the point.

Keep up the work - I think you will reap the rewards at the end.


Karl Pettit

4BR Reply:
Thanks Karl. We try our best to be as accurate as possible but we are not perfect by any means! We'll keep an eye out for any more errors in the future!

Whit Friday Info
In answer to the chap asking for info on whit friday:

http://www.whitfriday.brassbands.saddleworth.org/

Helping Hand?
Our band Newbridge (Celynen). We are forming a genuine youth band. We have some very talented 9 to12 year olds. But we have no uniforms them, we would like waistcoats or the like, can anyone out help.

G Blackmore
Treasurer
GLYNBLACKMORE@YAHOO.COM

4BR Reply:
Anyone help?

Rankings?
Following the latest update of the ranking tables, how does the system actually work?

The reason I ask is I was led to believe points were based on the depth of field at the contest. If this is the case can you explain the rapid movement of Kingdom Brass following the Fife Charities Contest?

Contest Entry
Kingdom Brass, Barrhead Burgh, Clackmannan District, Bathgate Band, Tullis Russell Mills, Tayport Instrumental, Dunfermline Town and Perthshire Brass.

From those that competed they are the only band featured in your top 75. I appreciate the contest has three separate sections i.e., hymn tune, march a test piece and don't know if this has a reflection on the points allocated?

Nice to see Scottish Bands doing so well in your rankings, and long may it continue, as my own band has demonstrated following our recent victory at the Land O Burns. Putting the quality of the competing bands into perspective over the two contests I can't see how this latest update works.

I have no gripes but would like to have an understanding how the system works and be able to appreciate future updates.

Yours
Robert Doherty

4BR Reply:
We do give an explanation of how we work things out on the page itself - have a look and see if it makes any more sense!! We may have to do another article though just to put people's minds at rest after the Nationals.

I feel Freeh?
Is this Mark Freeh? I would be interested in chatting with you. Please e-mail me a babzjd@yahoo.com.

Michael Dunn

4BR Reply:
A bit cryptic yes, but someone knows what he's on about.

Mission Impossible
Do you know where I can find band rankings for all sections and all areas in the UK. I have tried many sites with no success?

Peter Church

4BR Reply:
Bleeding heck Pete! We have enough moans and groans from bands about our current rankings! We'll ask our expert statistician if it would be possible, but somehow we think it could be "Mission Impossible"! We'll give it some thought though.

I'm a Bander and enjoy it!
I've been coming on this site for ages now - I've bought three cd's and often check the rankings articles and news!!!!!

I love the site, its great! I'm a bander myself in St Austell band on bass trombone and enjoy every aspect of it! Keep up the good work.

Mike Gascoigne

4BR Reply:
Thanks Mike - the cheque is in the post. A bass trombone player with taste eh? Whatever next…..

Be Fair to Tod!
My name is Alan Hodgkinson and I was until April of this year, a member of the Todmorden Old Band. I would just like to point out that Toddy made TWO years in the OPEN with a 15th and a 11th which for some reason you failed to mention. The band folded at the end of 2001 and the OPEN was our penultimate contest. It was also our best result at the OPEN and I feel you have taken away our bit of glory with yours comments!

Alan Hodkinson

4BR Reply:
Sorry Alan - and thanks for spotting our mistake. We've rectified it now - although it's still a great shame that the band is no longer with us. Success sometimes comes at one heck of a price.

Cape Crusaders
Can you help????...looking for a uniform manufacture who make wet weather capes. If you know who I can phone or email it would be of great help

Rob Coyle
St. josephs Brass Band
Strabane

4BR Reply:
Anyone out there help? Where did all those bandsmen get their wet weather gear from when they took part in the closing ceremony of the Commonwealth Games?

Own Up?
The Norwegian television channel TV2 have recently celebrated their 10 years jubilee, and one of the Bergen newspapers called BA had a big feature about this on Friday the 6th of September.

Under the heading "Thing that went wrong" the newspaper have listed some storys. One story is as follows:

In 92 TV2 had one whole week of soundtests for their live program "Good Evening, Norway" destroyed because off an English brass band partying every night at the hotel were the program was recorded. Does anyone in the UK know anything about this and feel guilty I wonder???!!!

Frode Rydland

4BR Reply:
Come, Come Frode! Do you honestly think that an English band would behave in such a fashion? Far from home, ready supplies of lager, nice girls and the chance to enjoy themselves in a hotel……. Never! Just some high spirits we think (hopefully)……

Oxford University Salford?
What a joy, when my blowing is done, telly is boring, but not yet ready for bed, I come to 4barsrest, better than any 'adult website', and it is free! Your sarcastic wit appeals to my wickedness; "why is that old git who lives on his own laughing so much" my neighbours must ask.

I noticed in one of your articles a comment about how nice it would be for the brass band to have some new input from fresh compositions.

The composition and arrangement world is a hazardous place, which, even in the brass band movement, with its working class routes, still has a fair share of 'old school tie' and 'Oxbridge' temperament.

I have been composing and arranging for over thirty years. My music has been on radio and recordings, and been played in well-known venues. A few years ago, I began producing some brass band music. Although I have had the pleasure of being able to share this with audiences, I have still met the same suspicions and jealousy from brass band colleagues.

I remember a 'lovely' experience in April 2001. I saw an advert from Parc & Dare, requesting applications for commissions for the Welsh Brass Arts Festival. I sent my cv. I never heard a thing. A few weeks later, I saw another advert for a concert by Parc & Dare, sponsored by the Welsh Brass Arts Festival, with new works by composers including Peter Graham and Roy Newsome.

Now I am not knocking the fine music of Peter Graham, I am just pointing out that the advert from Parc & Dare was a formality - the music was already commissioned.

Earlier, I used the term 'Oxbridge', I think in the brass band world it should be 'Salford College'. Woops, am I being sarcastic, or is it cynical?

Timothy Paton

4BR Reply:
Heaven forbid that you are being sarcastic Timothy - as for Salford being on the same par as Oxbridge?? The students are better and we are sure you don't get any of those posh twits in cricket sweaters punting up and down the Manchester Ship Canal. Give us Salford to Oxford or Cambridge anyday - strange how you don't see a team from Salford on University Challenge isn't it?

Parc and Ride and Play!
In response to the euphonium player Simon Phillips looking for a band to play for, Parc and Dare band has a vacancy for a euphonium player, we are based in the Rhondda Valley it may be a little far from Bristol but if he's interested he can contact Chris Eveson on 01443 773177 we may be able to assist him with travelling. Look forward to hearing from you.

4BR Reply:
Hope you hear something from him as well

Planet Zog Calling??
Although politics and administration are not my thing, I am at something of a loss at the lack of judgement and the quality of the decision making shown, by various people who have the unenviable task of trying to steer the unwieldy object sometimes euphemistically referred to as the brass band "movement." (Of course in reality we are not a movement, rather a collective of common interest and more related to sport than music in most cases due to the emphasis given to competitions.)

As a conductor, you realise that the quality of your collective decision making over a sustained period, is what makes the difference between success and failure to achieve you aims and ambitions. This is true in life and particularly true in business. In fact there is a whole sub industry of training consultants available to teach you how to make what they call "quality decisions."

What has brought this issue to mind is the recent issues of Kibworth's appeal to maintain championship status despite a low ranking at their area and Fishburn's appeal against a ban on the whole band for the incident at this years prize giving. These are just two fairly recent issues that for me have me scratching my head?

If you cast you mind back a couple of years, there were problems, which led to the eventual downfall of the NCC (National Contesting Council). Strangely enough this also involved Kibworth who missed an entry date and weren't allowed to compete and some other band disqualifications in the same year.

It eventually led to B&H passing over the responsibility for running the national contest to the British Federation of Brass Bands. The inference being that they thought that things were being dealt with in a rather heavy-handed manner. We now here of successful appeals which seem to ride rough shod over the area committees who run the contests and who have the responsibility of ensuring equilibrium. So who will win? What if the area committees say that they will stand by their original decision? Interestingly some of the personalities involved, (the ones who do all the work by the way), were also heavily involved in the NCC.

The BFBB needs time to bed in I know, but some of the stuff emanating from their offices is at best a bit unprofessional and gives the impression of them being very green at the job. I could give you a list, but my intention is not to knock anyone's efforts, but ask for your thoughts...........

Has anyone else had these thoughts or am I on the planet ZOG?

Can I make a humble suggestion or two.....

1. Bands make sure they discipline players before appearances at contests and make sure the band know what is expected of them!

2. Area committees should be able to make their decisions, but with proper consultation with bands and the Federation prior to passing sentence.

2. The Federation needs to be run with more business acumen and by people who can see the responsibility of decisions through, to the overall effect they have on their credibility. Why not have an unbiased and independent adjudication officer to sit in on area committees when contentious issues are being decided.

I am concerned that the lack of cohesion will make things worse than they were before! I was one of the supporters of the proposals put forward at the meetings at RNCM that Howard's article mentions in his article and was there. Apathy was the problem then.... I suppose nothing will have changed.

Steve Tighe

4BR Reply:
You raise a lot of interesting points Steve. Self discipline is perhaps the hardest thing in the world to gain, but possibly the most rewarding - getting bands to do it smacks a bit of the "nanny state".

Area Committees etc are a murky world that we at 4BR know little about, but you are right about consultation though. When was the last time that happened from contest organisers (certainly not this year at one major for sure!)

As for the Federation. It for us needs help - financial as well as organisational. It is set up to do a good job, but fails it seems from lack of financial independence, which in turn makes things difficult when trying to seek out proposals for forward planning. Is there a BFBB long term strategy for instance, or is it run on a year in year out basis? You only get what you pay for in this life, and if bands are not prepared to pay for a proper professional organisation then they can't complain if they get a second rate service - however hard those who are elected try.

French Letter
I am a soprano player and have played with a few "higher section" bands, such as Kibworth and Enderby. I have played a few different makes of sop, such as an old besson (complete with frosted finish), which was an infinitely better cornet than the sovereign (spit spit). And then I got a Schilke.

I thought that there was no way that another soprano cornet could ever compare. BUT then, due to set of unfortunate circumstances, which I won't go into, I came into possession of a Courtois. All I can say is watch out Schilke.... you have some serious competition.

Lee Rogers. (Raunds Temperance Band)

p.s. On September 28 we are doing a Brass and Voices concert, featuring the ABERFAN MALE VOICE CHOIR, and Special Guest Soloist, GLYN WILLIAMS (Fodens Courtois), at the United Reformed Church, High Street, Wellingborough,
Northamptonshire. Tickets cost £7.50/£6.00 concess. Please email me at lee.rogers1@ntlworld.com for further details.

4BR Reply:
Many months ago we actually did a road test on the sops you mention Lee and for us, the Courtois cam out on top (just it must be said) as we thought it was slightly better value for money than the quite expensive Schilke.

That being said though, both were super instruments, with the Schilke still the benchmark instrument for all others to be measured against. If only they could throw in the instrument case and perhaps knock a few quid off, it would outstrip the Courtois - being as expensive as a pint of Stella Artois is great, but sometimes a pint of Kronenbourg 1666 can be just as nice.

When Irish Eyes are Smiling
On Friday last I made an order with yourselves for a single CD - 2002 Europeans to be exact. Having never ordered from 4barsrest before, I wasn't sure what the level of service would be, but I assumed that it would be adequate.

I arrived home from rehearsal on Monday evening, to find that the order had been delivered that morning. I would not say that I am a regular purchaser of goods on the internet, but have used various vendors on numerous occasion, ordering goods from computer equipment to cds and books, to kitchen equipment. I have received service ranging from professional to abysmal, and I must comment that the service I received with 4barsrest was far superior to anything I had previously received or expected to receive.

The small order of a single CD was not put on the long finger, waiting for other shipments across the Irish Sea. On the contrary, it was shipped immediately, and contained a signed compliments slip and a personal message.

Bravo 4BarsRest, you make up for all the dodgy experiences I've had online, and you are an exemplary example of what an online service should be.

Neal O'Kennedy
Dublin
Éire

4BR Reply:
Thanks Neal for those kind words. It's a hard job, but someone has to do it…. We'd like to thank our families, girlfriends, the barman at the "Fountain Inn" Blaenavon, the "Tandoori Balti House", Tredegar, "Imran's Kebab House", Peckham and everyone else who wants to give us something for free………… without them we'd be hungry, sober and most probably have a life.

What about this band at the Open
On reading various items on this weekend I would like to mention one item of interest of which I have seen nothing in print, that is the Worcestershire Youth Brass Band they will be playing in the Atrium area of the Symphony Hall between 12.15 until 1.15 they are a very good band and is run through the Worcestershire County Councils Instrumental Music Service and this particular band is under the leadership of Nicky Daw, the members of this band come from many different Schools and of course many play in other bands as well ( my son plays for second section Stourport on Severn ) however it would be very nice for them to have a "mention" in any report that will come from that weekend.

My interest is no more than the fact that my son now plays for them.

Keith Hemming

4BR Reply:
Now everyone knows

At my Whit's End?
I'm trying to find out the person(s) or organisation for the traditional "Whit Friday Marches". Who actually organises the event, how to enter, rules and criteria etc. Can you please advise or forward this email to the appropriate people.

Grahame H.Legg.

4BR Reply:
Try and contact Tameside Metropolitan Borough Council to start with Grahame. We are sure they will be able to help you out. If not, contact the British Federation of Brass Bands on 01226 771015 - they should be able to assist you.

Government Handouts?
This is an e-mail I received from government after writing to find out about the £125m the government had on offer. A lot of it depends on what constitutes public service work. If providing instruments and tuition free of charge other than subs in addition to music for community events there may be a case to answer.

John Bray

Subject: Funding the voluntary sector
Thank you for your email of 5 August to Tessa Jowell about funding for a local brass band. As I am sure you can appreciate, Tessa Jowell is unable to respond to all their correspondences personally. I have been asked to reply on her behalf.

In your email you mention the £125m that is being made available for voluntary organisations as part of the Chancellors spending review, which was announced on 15 July. This is a new three-year fund of £125 million that voluntary organisations can draw upon for their public service work.

For more information, can I suggest you contact the HM Treasury at www.hm-treasury.gov.uk or email them at public.enquires@hm-treasury.

Can I also suggest you contact your Regional Arts Council who may be able to suggest appropriate alternative funding. To find out who your Regional Arts Council are visit the Arts Council of England's website at www.artscouncil.org.uk.

May I take this opportunity to wish you every success with your local brass band.

Sammy Turner

4BR Reply:
Thanks for letting us know about this John. Seems a bit too good to be true on the face of it. Surely there is a catch somewhere? Can anyone out there tell us more, or has anyone got any experience of trying to get funds from this pot of dosh? Please let us know.

Dancerinos
My band narrowly missed out on being selected for this year's 2nd Section Nationals at Torquay, but we are still keen to get to work on the test-piece (having done the same thing with Philip Sparke's excellent "Diversions" earlier this year).

All I can recall is the name of this year's piece: 'Dancerinos', I think. Can anyone help by pointing me in the direction of the piece, by way of a composer, publisher - even a selling agent?

Many thanks on behalf of the Chalford Band,

Jack D Smith.

4BR Reply:
Nearly there mate!! The set work for the Finals is in fact "Danceries" by Kenneth Hesketh, which can be found on the CD by the Leyland Band entitled "East Coast Pictures" (available for sale through the 4BR site). It's published Faber Music and you can get in contact with them on 01279 828900. We are sure they will be delighted to sell you a set.

Chalford Euph spot
Simon Phillips (1st Euph., Penzance Silver Band), enquired as to whether there might be any bands in the Bristol area looking for Euph. players.

Although not an official spokesman for my band, I can tell you that the Chalford Band (also known as Chalford Silver Band) are always keen to welcome new players into the ranks. The main Band is of 1st Section standard, narrowly missing promotion from the 2nd Section at this year's Areas - something we are ready to rectify in March next year. The band competes regularly in local contests as well as the national Pontin's event at Prestatyn.

It is highly likely that a euphonium vacancy will materialise at the end of November, when our long-serving 2nd Euph. player is retiring from the main Band. As a result, the Band would be looking to fill this vacancy either directly, or by bringing in a player from our Training Band (largely young players and of a good 4th Section standard, faring well in local contests and the Area) and so resulting in a vacancy there.

Chalford is approximately 25 miles north-north-east of Bristol, around about a 30 minute drive. It may be a bit of a trek, but I can assure you that a friendlier band you will not find within that distance! I am happy for you at 4BR to give Mr. Phillips my own email address as a means of contacting the band, otherwise he will be able to find out more about the band, and how to contact members, at its website: www.chalfordband.co.uk (I hope such a plug doesn't infringe on 4BR's 'T&C', but I'm only trying to help!)

Best wishes to Mr. Phillips in his search for a new band.

Jack D Smith
Chalford Band

4BR Reply:
If the man is interested then we are sure he will now give you a ring!

St. Dennis on the web?
I was recently on holiday in Cornwall and was lucky to catch a Television Programme on the rising fortunes of a local brass band: St. Dennis.

The programme traced them through the build up to the National Finals (4th section) whilst the conductor talked about the band's history. It seemed rather a shame that although he mentioned the bands high points in the seventies and eighties, he forgot to mention the conductor of the time; Mr Eddie Williams. Perhaps he never knew him!

I've tried finding a website to contact the band but to no avail. If anyone knows a web address I would be grateful if you could pass it through to me.

Mick Dowrick

4BR Reply:
Anyone help? We remember Eddie Williams well - he conducted the band into 6th place at the Nationals at the Royal Albert Hall in 1978 and had a tremendous Youth Band as well. We don't know what became of him though. Can someone tell us?

Fire in a Pet Shop
I read with interest the comments regarding the London 'box'. It has been a talking point in the pub by many a bandsman for many a year. (Usually by those who didn't win the contest!) However, it has to be noted that if the Nationals organisers listened to the majority of people, the 'box' would be positioned as close to the bands as possible.

This seems like common sense. Unfortunately, I believe the reason for the box being further back is to minimise the number of seats 'lost' behind this area, which leads to a loss in revenue.

If the loss of revenue from several potentially good seats is the reason for the positioning of the box so far away, surely this is a case of the tail wagging the dog? The quality of the contest AND the result should be taken into consideration.

If the box had been positioned, as the recent photo on 4barsrest shows it, how many of the results, over more recent years, would have been very different? The loud, coarse, ear-shattering, laser-beam bands, (who, let's face it, were probably only reacting to the acoustic for this contest alone), would not have come out on top. Other, subtler bands with a genuine quality sound & balance would have impressed.

I sat in the Albert Hall last year, near the back, to hear a 'top' band's performance. In the louder, faster parts it sounded like a fire in a pet shop! How this could be adjudicated was truly amazing. This particular band came out very close to the top in the prizes. Why? Is it necessary to register a certain amount of 'noise' to get higher up the table?

There can have only been two or three occasions in the last 15-20 years that a band has won the National's without being LOUD for the sake of being LOUD !!!!!!!

Come on Mr Organiser, shuv the box up to the stage! Let's see what happens.

Dave Clegg.

4BR Reply:
You are indeed very right Mr Clegg. Although the Nationals isn't a lottery, the cause of a many a band isn't helped by having the box so far away from the stage even the compere has to shout.

The box should be moved closer to the stage - that would benefit the judges as well as the bands don't you think, as the better bands could show off their abilities to play soft detailed passages without having to blow their nuts off. It's a pity financial considerations dictate that bums on seats means more than artistic and musical accuracy, but that's the reality of the matter.

It will be a pity if "Masquerade" this year just becomes a series of "blowing matches" between the big bands - it's such a detailed piece and deserves better than to be blown out of shape and reason. The Hall has a big enough problem with acoustics as it is - so will the organisers be brave enough to bring the box a bit closer?

A bit of Clay Magic
So nice to see the letter from John Clay charting the whereabouts of the 1972 Dykes. John was/is a fine player and I recall he was Principal Cornet of the NYBBGB on my first course in 1961. I bet he remembers playing "Schubert's Unfinished" in the open air on a moonlit night on Weymouth Pier with Eric Ball wagging the stick - "Magic"

Ian C. Wilkinson

4BR Reply:
We are sure John remembers it well Ian. The photo has brought back many memories for those concerned, and for those who enjoyed that great band. As we said - old bandsmen don't die, they just fade away in a nicely shaped dimniuendo………

Cry Freedom!
I'm trying to get hold of a copy of 'Freedom' by H. Bath - have had the score and parts on order for weeks now but its taking ages for it to arrive. Would any good samaritan out there be willing to lend me a copy of the score and parts until the copy I have on order arrives?

My email address is Keithmax_15@yahoo.co.uk

Keith
MD Friary Guildford Band

4BR Reply:
Any good Samaritans out there - you may need one Keith - Freedom is a bloody hard test piece!

Web News
I liked the idea of brief articles under the banner of "Bandroom News from around the Web". Maybe it could become a section on its own? One liners from the broader banding scene might be of interest to the majority of banders involved with 'low profile' bands.

Regards
Chris Broscombe
(St Keverne)

4BR Reply:
We will consider publishing any news from bands - as long as it isn't too bloody boring!! We hope to make the Web News a regular feature - although we hope bands will keep their websites up to date. There is nothing worse than reporting a new signing only to find out that it was six months ago and they have now buggered off to a new band. Help us out and we'll do our best to put as much as we can up on the site.

Students Wanted!
As we are now round again to the time of year when students will beginning new courses and moving away from home, the Newstead Welfare Band would like to invite any students who find themselves in Nottingham or indeed Derby and without a band to come down to rehearsal. We rehearse as our name suggests at the Newstead Welfare which is situated just a few miles from Nottingham.

Our rehearsals are on Thursday and Sunday evenings. If you would like more information or directions please give either myself a call on 07970 490773 or Duncan Beckley on 07973 389707.

Melanie Cooper

4BR Reply:
Any students out there wishing to give it a go? What have you got to lose? It would make a change to watching Countdown and waiting for the cheap food labels to be put on the perishables at Safeway wouldn't it?

Wem, Bang, Thank You Mam
I have just read on your site that you intend to stick your necks on the chopping block and include the very popular "Dodgy Predictions" for the National Finals.

To save you digging deep into the archives I have provided some information on Wem Jubilee Band (4th Section) who go to Torquay as Midland Area Champions.

I hope it will be of some use.

1995 - 1st (4th Section) Wychavon
1996 - 5th Midland Area Championships
1997 - 4th Midland Area Championships
1999 - 2nd (4th Section) Wychavon
1999 - 3rd (3rd Section) Wychavon
2000 - 4th Midland Area Championships
2000 - 1st (4th Section) Wychavon
2001 - 5th Midland Area Championships
2001 - 1st (4th Section) Wychavon
2001 - 1st (3rd Section) Wychavon
2002 - 1st Midland Area Championships

This is the first time in the bands 25-year history that it has secured a place at the National Finals and is now working flat out on the test piece and have a busy schedule of sectional and full rehearsals right up to the eve of the contest. The band are confident that they will give a good performance of this difficult music and look forward to celebrating their 25th Anniversary on the English Riviera.

After they return from Torquay they will be continuing their rehearsals for the Wychavon Festival of Brass, on the following weekend, where they will be defending both the 4th and 3rd Section Titles, hopefully as National Champions!
The band have strengthened their ranks with Nikki Lloyd joining on 1st Horn and Paul Barker on Solo Cornet.

Roger Thorne
(Musical Director: Wem Jubilee Band)

4BR Reply:
Put yourselves on the chopping block a bit now haven't you? Good luck though, and we'll certainly take your form into account when we make our scientifically proven predictions next week!

Last Hoax
Surely you can trace the evildoer who claimed that Wingates had packed up? If it came from a Freeserve address then ask that company to help in finding the perpetrator. As a loyal supporter of Wingates (one of the very few Championship Bands without major sponsorship) I often wonder who has their knife into the loyal musicians of Wingates. If Wingates can afford to sue the rumour monger then I will make a donation towards any legal costs. The only trouble is that lawyers are the ones who end up making money!

Peter Hewis (Reverend) Yarnton, Oxford.

4BR Reply:
Thanks Rev. We hope the matter is now closed concerning the hoax - and we do hope someone catches up with the Sod (sorry, not a very Christian attitude we know). Wingates are going strong and we hope to be able to report on success for them in the coming future. As for the little idiot who did the hoax…….

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