Comments ~ 2008: August

More vibrato views, horns and even bands in Parliament as we count down to the British Open.

Vibrato times?

Having read the article about the argument "raging" at the proms about vibrato it did tickle me slightly.

Roger Norrington is a hugely learned musician and I'm sure his knowledge of all this surpasses anything I might have gleaned. However (assuming this quote is correct) stating, "vibrato was a modern invention introduced at the turn of the 20th century" doesn't help the argument for vibrato-less ‘Pomp & Circumstance’.

It just sneaks into the 20th century with a first performance in 1901... As for the ‘1st Symphony’ premiering in 1908, those string players should have been wobbling like a nanny-goat on heat by then! Or am I taking it all too literally...
 
As for our lovely brass bands, surely vibrato is just one of the many colourings and techniques to be used judiciously and with absolute regard for the music?

Certainly never to cover bad intonation.
 
Don't even get me started on the baroque stuff...
 
Just some thoughts, it's been a while…
 
Jon Kitchen 

Insular and diminishing?

I had to smile when I read your comments in the article "The Vibrato Wars".  You wrote "There is one almighty fuss about vibrato brewing up at the Proms....it could only really happen in the rarefied atmosphere of the classical music world, and the Proms in particular".
 
Leaving aside the fact that Roger Norrington courted similar controversy a few seasons ago when he gave a Proms performance of ‘Mahler 1’ sans vibrato, I think I would dispute the idea that this sort of argument could only happen in the classical music world. 

Haven't we had a similar debate about this issue in the brass band world? 
 
Wasn't it Ralph Vaughan Williams who back in the 1950s had to issue an instruction to bandsmen to avoid "the vulgar sentimental vibrato which disfigures so many brass band performances"?  Weren't people in the 1960s and 1970s debating the rights and wrongs of the broad, emaciating trombone vibrato of one of our most famous band's soloists? 

Don't we still have the occasional nanny goat soprano cornet or wobbling E flat tuba sound even today?
 
In any case, my dictionary defines 'rarefied' as 'belonging to or reserved for a small select group; esoteric'.  On one hand, we have in the Proms an international music festival that attracts tens of thousands of concertgoers and a broadcast audience of tens of millions every year, playing music, which appeals to hundreds of millions across the globe. 

On the other hand, we have in the UK brass band world an insular and ever diminishing group of people who spend most of their time playing music to each other. 

Which of these two worlds is the more rarefied, I wonder?
 
Jim Yelland
Hinckley 

Tasteful reserve

The correspondent had it right when he wrote “…tasteful reserve” when considering the use of vibrato by any musician. 

When I was growing up, the application of ‘vibrato de rigeur’ was just coming to an end (thank God) and it was beginning to be realised that constant vib was usually used to cover up faulty intonation by some players.

To my ears, used to both orchestral and brass music, the over use of vibrato can be positively painful. Somebody needs to start teaching youngsters what ‘tasteful’ implies. That might be a start.
 
Mike Lyons 

Well done BFBB

Great to know there is now a Parliamentary Group on Brass Bands. Well done the BFBB and anyone else involved!
 
Absolutely right to prod readers into contacting their MPs to help build up momentum for lobbying on funding, etc.
 
Anyone who doesn't know who their MP actually is can find out using the following link:
 
http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/commons/l/
 
I respectfully suggest that news of any developments arising from the Parliamentary Group should, given its potential and importance, have a dedicated page on the 4 Bars Rest site.

Russell Cavanagh 

Help to find Lorena

Can you help me please?

I am trying to find details of the cornet solo 'Lorena', for a friend of mine.

He claims it was played by a cornetist on the front line of the American Civil War.The result being the fighting between the two armies stopped while it was played.

This may be a well known solo (and anecdote) but it was the first time I had heard the story.

I would be obliged if you could cast some light on this for me.

Terry Evans
Felling Band 

Does the horn add up?
 
I was very interested in your review on the new tenor horns especially when it came to the finish on the instrument.

I brought one of the first new Besson Prestige Euphoniums last year and while I have been very pleased with the way it plays and also the mechanical function of the valves tuning slide etc that have so far been superb. The plating and finish is rubbish.
 
The plating on the bottom bow has become detached and the gold plating of the valve caps is also worn through. On top of that throughout the winter months when it is cold the inserts fall out of the finger buttons all of this before it was a year old.
 
Will my son and I remain a so far loyal Besson Customer after some 40 years of banding?

Well I think I’ll now have to think very carefully about that from now on. Finish and Service are also very important when you pay almost £4000 for a new instrument.

Tim Brown

Trigger troubles?

Interesting article on the three tenor horns. Having played a 25 year old Sovereign for many years I really wonder if the new horns are any better?  

The use of a trigger may seem a good idea, but is it of any real use for the vast majority of players? For the top players it should be of help, but for the rest of us, I fear it could be more trouble than it is worth.

Paul Kingdom

Wait for the new Xeno

The 4BR Roadtest on the Prestige, Preference and Maestro horns was very well written, but a little predictable. 

That the York and Besson came out on top ahead of the Yamaha came as no surprise, but wouldn’t it have been fairer given that the Maestro is now over a decade old and is due to be replaced next year by the new Xeno, to just have gone head to head between the two new kids on the block? 

James Williams 

Old horn identity

I believe that Mr. Van Thienen should contact Arnold Myers at the University of Edinburgh. He is conducting research into British Brasswind History. If he follows the link below:
 
www.music.ed.ac.uk/euchmi/
 
about half way down the page is a "Research" heading and then a link to "British Brasswind History" this will open a page that will tell him the information Dr. Myers needs. 

He was extremely helpful in providing information about an old Euphonium that I own. He not only might be able to provide details about his instrument, as part of his research he is also interested in learning of any old instruments still in existence.
 
Ewan Eaton
Ratby Co-operative 'Mid' Band 

Mystery cup 

I have just come across a picture of the above cup and woundered if anyone had any idea where it is today.

The inscription reads:- The W.W.Grant memorial challenge cup presented by the National Brass Band Club, in remembrance of a loyal colleague and one of the founding members and chairman of the committee from its inception until his death on the 24th January 1935. Black Dyke won it in 1935 and 1937 and from what I can make out Friary Brass in 1936.

John Clay 

Welsh attendance

In response to Mr David Arnold's letter regarding the low attendance of Welsh bands at this years National Eisteddfod, I think the answer is quite straight forward and to be honest, quite understandable, particularly regarding the Championship section contest. 

With so many of the Championship and 1st section bands in Wales having a large percentage of players made up from students from the local Universities, Music College etc, too many of the players are either away on summer courses or have taken their limited time off to go home to all corners of the country (& Europe...).

Its a little down to bad timing unfortunately and I for one, can understand why some bands choose not to borrow players from other bands for the event and therefore not field, maybe, as good as band as they so wish to and instead, decide to put all their efforts into contests in the coming months.

Those bands who did attend this years contest, win or lose, should be applauded for their efforts and I look forward to next years event.

Dave Griffiths

Poor website presence

I've read 4BR for years and only today have I been so appalled by something that I felt the need to write.

I read with interest that the "British Open" had decided to have a presence on the web, so I logged onto the site expecting to see a clean, professional quality site.  Instead I was faced with what has to be one of the most amateur, badly designed and poorly implemented attempts at a website I've seen for many years.

What were they thinking? There are so many problems with it from a technical, aesthetic and content viewpoint I wouldn't even know where to begin. I'll mention a couple of the main ones though.

Why does the bolding of single letters in the tabs at the top of the screen spell out "OPHURR". What is that meant to signify?

Why are the i and the e in "British open" in a larger font? Is this some sort of modern design statement?

Need I go on – about the lack of content for instance? (believe me I could but I'm getting rather depressed). I'm sure I don't need to remind anyone here that this competition is supposed to be one of the premier showcases for British Brass Banding if not brass banding as a whole.

What sort of an impression does the site give anyone about the brass banding movement when the premier competition website looks like that?

The fact it seems to have been officially announced beggars belief. As for the sponsors I dread to think what they think of the site as I know I wouldn't want my logo anywhere near it.

The idea of putting up a website was, of course, right, but the execution leaves much to be desired. It reeks of a lack of professionalism, commitment and a blatant missed opportunity to enrich and enthuse about the competition itself and those that contribute towards it.

A comment was made elsewhere that brass banding is an incredibly insular movement that plays music predominantly for itself.

If we do this for ourselves, looking at this website the organisers of the British Open seem to have little respect for either the history, competition, bands or the movement as a whole.

Gary Hopkins
London 

Eisteddfod needs better support

I too was a participant in the brass band competition at the National Eistedfodd and I would agree that the wide television (and sound) coverage was commendable. 

However, given the very low number of bands that took part, the Welsh banding scene really do not deserve this! 

The top section consisted of three bands and the Second Section of three.  It is not a lack of prize money either, although not huge, considerably more than a lot of other better attended contests! 

To this can be also added a modest travel grant and the return of the entry fee. If attendances do not improve it would be no surprise to see the competition disappear or at least be scaled down. 

So the Welsh can be proud of the fact that its major cultural event includes brass bands but not by the level of support that the Welsh bands give to it! 

I would imagine that a similar event the other side of the Severn Bridge would receive a far better level of support or would I be mistaken?

David Arnold
Cardiff 

Putting Besses record straight

Having seen the news article on 4BR regarding the loss of John North from Besses, I feel I must put the record straight.
 
John was finished by certain minority members of the committee without first consulting the members of the band.  John was without doubt the most energetic and enthusiastic conductor I have ever played under and the decision to sack him was probably the most stupid act I have ever seen. 

Especially when you consider that just a few short months earlier, there were so few members that the disbanding of the band was a real threat, but John dragged it away from the precipice and was probably single handedly responsible for; the band competing in the Senior Trophy at Blackpool with only 2 borrowed players, responsible for 2 VERY successful concerts in Sedbergh and Lanercost, and there were more players who were ready to commit full time to the band. 

Unfortunately, they have now said that will no longer do so and the band has already lost several existing players because of this mindless act, including the secretary of many years, Jean Heyes.
 
Had the "spokesperson" for the band really meant to offer their heartfelt thanks then, why was he sacked?

As for being "in the midst of re-building"....that certainly is true now, because it is this writers opinion (of over 45 yrs experience) and also that of the  majority of the few players that are left, that the end of this once great band is nearer than the current committee are prepared to admit.

Jim Owen
Besses O' th' Barn Band 

Vibrato - just about right?

Well done Jim - you cracked the "comments" by VW on vibrato, so I might as well give away the other instructions he wrote in the cornet parts in "Variations for Brass Band" which was "Quasi Tromba". 

This of course means as ‘if/like a trumpet’, which of course uses no vibrato or very little in those days, and come to think of it, they don't use that much now unless the piece/solo dictates it!

I cannot imagine a brass band without vibrato, but it has got slower, slimmed down width-wise and we have learned to turn it on and off and vari it in terms of style.

We now have all benefited from instrument manufacture. Instruments now blow free, solid, warm and intonation near perfect (another reason for using vib in the old days was to disguise intonation problems), much bigger bore instruments and mouthpieces to match.

The open teaching years of the last 30 + have given all an exchange in how to breath more efficiently, project more, increase the sound levels more and to keep control of that too.

But brass bands without vibrato, no no no! Viva la vib, and may the good sense prevail of where these vibrato levels are at now, as I think we have reach the exact point of vibrato good taste!
 
Phil Lawrence  

Edge of the seat vibrato...

I have been interested by the as yet budding correspondence on vibrato, and am eagerly awaiting more thoughts on the subject.

Regarding which, anyone who is interested in exploring brass banding or ensembling (?) in all its diverse glory, should click on the link below, then "Brass Unbound" and then "Preview".

There you will find some nice style alternatives for the future of British Banding. (You can buy the whole video film for 7 euros.) Hope this helps with the thinking.
http://www.medici.tv/#/movie/167/
 
For those who like to stick closer to home for their thrills, on the same site there is a decent concert performance (without added authenticity, I'm afraid, but free until Sept 30) of Mahler 5 by the multinational Verbier Festival Orchestra in Switzerland, with an excellent English Principal Trumpet, Cameron Todd, ex RAM.

The conductor seems to be wielding a very small pre-used Swan Vesta matchstick (counterfeit, not authentic) for a baton, and pretending to be genuinely sight-reading.

Exciting edge-of-the-seat stuff.  

Howard Snell 

VW on vibrato

Has anyone from the brass band fraternity read the notes Vaughn Williams wrote on the inside page of his score for BB "Agincourt Song"?

Match this against his repeated instructions in the cornet parts to "Variations For Brass Band" and what do you get?

Sleuth away to find VW's thought's on BB/cornet vib!
 
Phil Lawrence 

Rethink required

Brass bands are not immune to the current economic climate and contest organisers should really give some serious thought to measures that could help mitigate the situation. 

Furthermore, in my opinion some decisions need to be made to reflect the fact that brass band contests are still slaves to a formula that was introduced when the world was vastly different.

It is too late to do anything for the autumn contesting season but I believe there are measures that could be taken to help reduce costs to competing bands and improve the occasion for the paying public.
 
Firstly, I would propose pre-draws as far in advance as possible - several months preferably. It may enable some bands to make modest savings on coach driver costs - one driver rather than two - and for major contests possibly avoid significant overnight hotel costs.

Moreover it is plain common sense. For example, I understand that this year's British Open test is 18 - 20 minutes in length.. This means the last bands will take to the stage at around 6pm, having had to arrive at Symphony Hall just after 10am in case they draw early. A wait of eight hours - ludicrous.
 
The judges will know the playing order. So what? They have integrity. Put them behind a screen so they can concentrate and let them get on with it. We need to introduce trust into contests. The recent events concerning Messrs Horsfield and Mead show the ridiculous depths to which banding has plumbed.
 
Some will argue that such a scenario, in respect of our major events, will mean that if the "big guns" are drawn early or late the attendance will reflect this. It already does with gaping empty areas in the halls for "lesser bands". Let the customers arrive and depart at their own choosing - they have paid for a ticket.
 
There are too many bands at the National Finals at the Royal Albert Hall and the British Open at Birmingham. For the Royal Albert Hall reduce the number of pre qualifying bands from four to two. And don't require the winners and runners up to go through the farce, and cost, of attending the following year's regional qualifier.

This would reduce the finalists from 20 to 18 and not significantly impact on the regional events. Insofar as the Open is concerned relegate three bands and promote two bands from the Grand Shield until the number of competing bands is down to 14.
 
With reduced numbers a lunch break of up to an hour would be feasible. Am I the only one who wonders how men of advancing years seemingly have no problem in concentrating without any form of break for hours on end?

That's not real and we are fooling ourselves to think otherwise. The English National has shown the way in terms of numbers and a break half way.
 
Surely the organisers of contests, especially the majors which involve huge costs for bands and audience alike, have a responsibility to explore options to make it easier and convenient for all concerned.

As a starter, and in conclusion, perhaps Alan Hope, on behalf of the National Brass Band Championships, could enlighten us all on what discussions he and his regional colleagues have had at their bi-annual meetings regarding the current economic climate, and whether they have reconsidered the formula that may have served us well for many years, but is now surely in need of a serious rethink.
 
Tim Mutum 

Horn help anyone?

Hello, I have a very old Besson tenor horn at home. Does anyone have some more information about it?

The specifications are: Besson & Co "Prototype" London England, tenor horn in Eb/F with 4 valves, serial number 28466.
 
Bert Van Thienen 

Music help?

I am trying to find a copy of Stuart Johnson's Spirit of Adventure for my Junior Band to perform this term. 

It must be out of print as the only version I can find is for Wind Band.  If anybody has or knows of a set of parts, preferably with score but not essential, please contact me on LesleyH4@aol.com

Lesley Howarth
City of Coventry Brass 

Great to be on the television - even in Wales! 

Having read the comments about television cover for bands, I agree completely.

I took part in the Eisteddfod last Saturday. It was a great thrill to know that we were being televised live.

S. Lewis 

A question of Preston tempo
 
In the Guildhall in Preston 2008: amazing performances: Black Dyke and Grimethorpe. A close finish.

But also an important difference: from bar 64 to 127 of Infinity the tempo is 168.

Black Dyke (in all sections) plays this difficult part of Infinity very clear in the right tempo. Grimethorpe was playing this in 152. And still the winner. Remarkable.
 
Alko Driest
The Netherlands 

Vibrato Wars?
 
I had to smile when I read your comments in the article "The Vibrato Wars".  You wrote "There is one almighty fuss about vibrato brewing up at the Proms....it could only really happen in the rarefied atmosphere of the classical music world, and the Proms in particular".
 
Leaving aside the fact that Roger Norrington courted similar controversy a few seasons ago when he gave a Proms performance of Mahler 1 sans vibrato, I think I would dispute the idea that this sort of argument could only happen in the classical music world.  Haven't we had a similar debate about this issue in the brass band world? 
 
Wasn't it Ralph Vaughan Williams who back in the 1950s had to issue an instruction to bandsmen to avoid "the vulgar sentimental vibrato which disfigures so many brass band performances"? 

Weren't people in the 1960s and 1970s debating the rights and wrongs of the broad, emaciating trombone vibrato of one of our most famous band's soloists?  Don't we still have the occasional nanny goat soprano cornet or wobbling E flat tuba sound even today?
 
In any case, my dictionary defines 'rarefied' as 'belonging to or reserved for a small select group; esoteric'.  

On one hand, we have in the Proms an international music festival which attracts tens of thousands of concertgoers and a broadcast audience of tens of millions every year, playing music which appeals to hundreds of millions across the globe. 

On the other hand, we have in the UK brass band world an insular and ever diminishing group of people who spend most of their time playing music to each other.  Which of these two worlds is the more rarefied, I wonder? 

Jim Yelland
Hinckley 

Don't sit back smugly

Although you are right in saying that the orchestral world is having a bit of a paddy over the non use of vibrato, the brass band world shouldn’t sit back smugly and think it is an issue that doesn’t affect us.

Having just listened to the latest Black Dyke CD recording (and reading the 4BR review) it is fairly obvious that even this truly great brass band is now playing (or should that be blowing) at a volume that makes it impossible for warm tonal vibrato to be used to tasteful effect.

Are we going back to the not so distant days of the Howard Snell and James Watson inspired band sounds of Fodens, Desford and Black Dyke sounding like brass ensembles I wonder?

I for one hope not.

Ian Lowe
Sheffield 

Odd stance

Nice to see 4BR bring up the question of vibrato in this month’s well timed editorial. 

However, given that for the last year or so 4BR has been championing the abilities and sound of Brass Band Oberoesterreich from Austria, it seems your editorial stance is slightly different from your personal taste.

It wasn’t too long ago that you were telling us that the Austrians represented the possible brass band sound of the 21st century. Is that still the case I wonder?

Trevor Hughes    

Wales lead the way?

Why is it that the good people of Wales can get a brass band contest broadcast live on national television, whilst the rest of the country has to make do with the occasional patronising bit of news coverage accompanied by tales of ‘Brassed Off’ or Hovis bread music.  

I watched the two days on the weekend with admiration for the quality of the coverage (even though I do not speak Welsh) that included what seemed to be a knowledgeable studio presenter, articulate guests and post performance interviews with players and conductors. Even the camera work and sound were very good too.

Well done Wales. Now why can’t the rest of us demand the same?

Peter Halliwell 

Thank you everyone

My name is Glenn Prince I am a resident of Bowburn County Durham. 

I would just like to thank all the band members for their excellent performances whilst they where in Durham. The evening before the Durham Miners Gala in Bowburn community was brilliant, and the Miners Gala itself, the band was outstanding, and they did our community very proud.

It was a great honour to meet the band, especially Olly. Myself and my family hope we meet again, once again a very big thank you to you all,

Glenn Prince

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