Comments ~ 2008: July (Part 2 - 19th July onwards)

Final opinions on Preston, memories of the Gwent Youth Band and someone in need of a legacy...

Missed the point - on both sides

I have been reading the correspondance concerning the English National Championships with a degree of interest. It seems most people have missed the point on this one - on both sides.

The 4BR article stated that they felt the remarks were genuine, personal and heartfelt, but that that they were aired at an inappropriate time. That is an important distinction. Others have as usual not read the retrospective in its right context and have tried to develop the arguements both for and against without reference to it.   

There is a time and place for representatives of religious and secular organisations to air their opinions and beliefs to others - and at the end of a brass band contest is not one of them for either party.  

Telling people what gave them their own personal inspiration and feelings is one thing, telling others they must then go out and seek the same is quite another, and not appropriate at all.

That was the point that was being made. Well done 4BR for reporting it (it was noticeable that it was not reported elsewhere). A very interesting debate has followed even if it has veered from the point made in the original retrospective and editorial. 

David Francis
 

Hard won freedom

I have just read Mr Clarks reply to my posting and have to say I am a little taken aback at how annoyed he seems. His remarks verge at times on the offensive. Certainly towards Robert Redhead. 

I cannot comment on the musical merits of Infinity as I haven't heard it. I can however say with certainty that he is a composer of high standing certainly within SA circles and were he to be asked of course I am sure he would say it was his faith that inspired his music.
 
If Mr Clark would rather not have work of a religious nature at a band contest than his complaint is with the contest organisers for commissioning a Christian minister to write the music. However if Mr Clark wants all religion out of contests he would also exclude such writers as Philip Wilby who has used scripture as his inspiration in at least two of his works, both used as Test pieces.
 
My point about the speech was that a Salvation Army officer when asked to speak about a piece of music inspired by scripture is of course going to sound a bit preachy. If you don't want that than again the complaint is with the contest organisers for asking her to speak. She was merely doing her job. I cannot for the life of me think of how your freedoms were restricted in any way be her speech. 

I have sat through many a speech (and sermon come to that) that I was bored by or disagreed with. But I did not consider my right to freedom to have been affected. Mr Clark obviously was not brain washed or moved towards God by Gwyneth Redheads speech and is more than capable of deciding for himself on such matters. So why be upset? 

Perhaps he should write a piece from an atheistic point of view, quoting perhaps Marx, or Dawkins perhaps and if it is played either at a contest or concert invite me along to hear it and his speech explaining it. I won't be offended or upset. 
 
On the point of SA music having a more conservative leaning, this comes about because the vast majority of our music is used in our Sunday services. Very few of our bands or congregations are capable of either playing or coping with particularly avant garde music, and as much as I may like music of a more contemporary style many in my congregation do not. 

The SA knows this but still aims to produce some works which are more challenging to the band and listener alike. Ray Steadman Allen amongst others (including Robert Redhead) moved SA music on greatly in this respect.  But SA music has to be horses for courses I'm afraid.
 
My comments on Christians in contesting bands is surely not contentious. As they reflect society there will undoubtedly be Christians agnostics and as it appears at least one evangelistic atheist in its ranks. Indeed I was a good friend of the late Eddie Noble who as many people will know was the treasurer of Brighouse and Rastrick for many years. 

He was also a member of the Brighouse (as was I) and Halifax Salvation Army corps. He invited at least one serving SA officer to conduct some pieces at rehearsals and they were always well received by the band.
 
I speak as a serving Salvation Army officer but also as a band lover. I have played as an SA bandsman since childhood, and also with contesting bands albeit in the lower sections. I have attended many contests and have enjoyed most of the pieces I have heard whether they have religious inspiration or not. 

I am well aware that music does not have to be inspired by scripture or God or indeed anything to be inspirational. Indeed some of my favourite composers and authors such as Bartok and Douglas Adams are (or were) outspoken atheists, this has not stopped me enjoying and being moved by their creative output. It is a pity that Mr Clark does not seem as charitable towards SA composers.  Perhaps he also takes exception to the works of Bach and Handel, who both offered their music for the glory of God. 
 
I need hardly remind Mr Clark that without the SA the band movement would not have Eric Ball, Ray Steadman Allen, Dean Goffin, Leslie Condon, Wilfred Heaton, Peter Graham, Kenneth Downie,  Ray Farr, Edward Gregson, and more besides. A lot of chairs in bandrooms up and down the land would be empty too. 

Perhaps without the SA they would have played and composed anyway but in many cases I doubt it. Perhaps all of the above too are deemed not competent enough to be used by God? I myself would know little or nothing of music without the SA. Were we to take Mr Clarks advice on banning living SA composers for writing for contests simply because they write from a particular perspective of faith would this not infringe their rights also?
 
The attack on the SA as a whole also seems unjust. I rather suspect Mr Clark does not like any kind of religious movement. The music of the SA plays only a small part of what we do. Indeed tonight many thousands of people will sleep in a bed rather than on the streets because of the SA. 

And whether Mr Clark likes it or not when I hand a food parcel out to a needy family as I do on many occasions I do it because I am inspired by my faith and example fo Christ. Or am I now getting preachy?
 
Mr Clark should also know that there is an act of parliament called the Salvation Army Act which outlines our right to preach the gospel in public places. It was put in place many years ago because of the attacks both physical and spiritual made upon Salvationists. 

So like it or not the freedoms the SA enjoys to preach the gospel were hard won and so we believe this freedom should not be put aside lightly. 
 

Captain Mark Sellers 
Consett Salvation Army    

Gift horse?

Having read the numerous comments and criticisms regarding the Salvation Army and its involvement in the brass band movement, I must admit to being more than bemused and bewildered. 

I've never quite understood what it is about the brass band movement that makes us suspicious of our lead body's motives, in fact over the last 12 months Kapitol, the BFBB and now the SA have been criticised in one way or another for trying to help and sustain the movement? 

I, for one, am delighted that an organisation such as the SA has taken an interest in secular brass bands and, indeed, is promoting and supporting the development of the band movement and sustaining the existing structure. 

The SA is a pan-global organisation who have committed time, effort and finance to support our movement. 

Yes, they are an overtly Christian organisation and we should expect that this message is explicit and implicit in all they do - I find nothing wrong with this, just as I found nothing wrong with speeches by representatives of Boosey & Hawkes at their sponsored events!
 
Perhaps we should stop looking a "gift horse in the mouth" and accept help graciously, and look forward to an exciting and interesting partnership in the forthcoming years.
 
 
David Hirst 

Gwent Youth article

thanks for the interesting review of the Gwent Youth Band's famous / infamous trip to Germany in 1983, as a participant in the trip it certainly brought back more than a few memories some of which brought a tear to the eye, and some which wont be repeated in public (what goes on tour stays on tour !!!!!).  

One thing which was never mentioned in news paper reports of the time was that as well as carrying out the concerts, the band also took the time to visit some of the injured in hospital for which (after 25 years) I'd like to say a big thanks.  

It was great to see some old faces at the reunion last friday, and thanks to Alun, Adrian, and Dai for organising.

Andrew King
P.S.  The age range for the band was 13 - 22 (I know cos I was the baby) 

Legacy help?
 
I have been trying to purchase a copy of Legacy by the Sunlife Band, and also Avondale both on the Stanshaw label.  

Anyone of your readers willing to sell me a second hand copy???
 
Brett Baker 
www.brettbaker.co.uk

Interesting and important debate

I have read with interest the various correspondences on 4BR regarding the issue of speaking at contests. 

There has been letters that express some fairly extreme views, and whilst some of them are maybe too personal, it is fair to say that the letters by Mr. Sellers, and Mr. Clark especially, have helped create an interesting and important debate.
 
It is a challenging issue, and it is only through thorough debate people will make genuine opinions, and take positions.
 
I feel that the role of the composer (As well as that of the poet, writer, artist, comedian, etc.) has never been more important than now, certainly not in my lifetime anyway.
 
We live in a world that has many, many problems – wars that we as a nation are involved in; civil wars in Africa; an Olympic Games being held in an oppressive country that has very little regard for human life; a shocking regime in Zimbabwe; poverty, famine – the list really is endless.
 
So as a composer, I feel a responsibility to write about these “events” – making people aware of them, keeping them fresh in our consciences. Composers, as well as the other artists I listed, who have an audience, no matter what size, should be telling these often terrible truths that exist.
 
So to try and follow that logic on, if we ask a composer to write a work, and they chose to write about their faith, and perhaps what it has to offer other people, they are pretty similar concepts.
 
So where does that stop? What is it acceptable to talk about?
 
This debate began because the wife of a composer, who is also a Salvation Army officer, chose such an occasion to deliver her own message (And that of the musical work) – a message of religion.
 
Is there a difference between:
 
a) A composer writing a work aimed at raising awareness of the Chinese support of the regime in Sudan and the Genocide in Dafur, which also questions the suitability of the Chinese to host the Olympic Games, and then talking about how that had influenced the composers’ writing at results time?
 
b) A composer writing a religious work, that has taken its inspiration from their faith, and talking about it at results time?
 
At first, other than content, it would be fairly easy to say that there is very little difference. However, I actually think that there is a very big difference between the two scenarios.
 
Fact has an important role in this argument. There is no denying the situation in scenario A – it is happening, and the World is pretty much letting it happen. It needs to be talked about, written about, sang about, thought about, etc. It should be in our conscience. There are some people who don’t want it on theirs, or even just don’t want to hear about it because they have other concerns in life. But isn’t this the point of writing composition A?
 
Religion, however, isn’t fact, it is faith. I understand that to some it is fact, and I fully respect their beliefs. But it is not irrefutable to all.
 
Whilst some people in this country may take offence at hearing China blasted for their human rights record, they would be perhaps a little more than just simply biased.

Whereas hearing about someone’s religion and faith, and what could be even worse – how it should be your religion and faith – is downright offensive to some, and no-one involved in any church should deny people their own choice not to be part of religion.
 
I know that there are many different arguments, and that this is the very tip of a rather large iceberg, but simply put – shouldn’t the people/composer/wife of composer use a bit of common sense and be sensitive to the occasion – whatever their message is?
 
I appreciate that those who are evangelical feel they have a duty, but as SA composers become more called on by contests, can’t we find a middle ground?
 
It is interesting to hear composers talk about their work, technically, musically and the influences on their work – but it should be about the music. And I think that goes for scenario A and scenario B.
 
Like it or not, the secular and SA brass band communities are now linked, and surely there is room for both – but it needs sensitivity and delicate handling by both camps.

There have been some stunning composers from the SA – Heaton et al, and it would be a shame to miss out on their wonderful work because of non-musical reasons.
 
One last point: If brass bands are to grow in size and stature in this country, we should be as compelling as possible to all – a speech/preaching from a Christian alienates not only Atheists, but other non-Christians too. The time is surely ripe to appeal to as much of the country as possible.

Peter Meechan 

Redhead reminder

I have been reading through all of the comments regarding what Col. Mrs Redhead had said talking about Infinity. 

If I can remind people what Col Robert Redhead spoke about at the Yorkshire Regionals of the piece Isaiah 40.

He gave comments on stage in full Salvation Army uniform about why he wrote the piece and giving the scripture passages used in the piece.

No-one was at all offended by this, possibly because it is a very good piece and even gave him a very warm welcome after flying over especially from his home in Canada at the time.
 
I hope people don't think the same thing about Kenneth Downie with his Concertino for Brass Band at the Nationals.

If you banished all living SA composers then you wouldn't have many people to write music for major contests as you do at the moment.
 
Andrew Hall
Herts 

Freedoms work both ways

To: Mr Charles Williams
 
Firstly, I presume the N. Cole in you letter was in fact me? My name has been Neil Clark for quite some time (Around the date of my birth I think...).
 
There are other human rights other than the ones written in law in this country, or in Europe. And if I chose to go to a non-religious event, and get preached at afterwards - having paid a handsome sum to get in - I do feel slightly infringed.

If I paid to go to a church, then no, I wouldn't there. Basically, I wrote my first letter in anger - I should perhaps listen to my other half who tells me not to act when angry! And perhaps I didn't put my point across as well as I could have. The piece of music was poor, but that is the risk you take going to a band contest. However, I didn't pay £15 to be preached at. Did you?
 

Religious freedom works both ways - please don't forget that.
 
Some of us take offence to people thinking they can somehow enlighten us with their religion. They stop me in town, they ring on my doorbell early in the morning, but never did I expect it to happen at a brass band contest.

I won't have been the only one either, so don't fool yourself on that one. My point is simple - the English National contest is not a religious contest, and it should be respected in that way. It wasn't. (That, for me, was the new low for brass banding, not my original post.)
 
It shouldn't happen again, and if people don't make the point, it will, and that is not fair to anyone. So please forgive me for defending my right not to be preached at, but it is a very important point to me and many others.
 
Mr. Williams: Thank you for your insightful post - though I think everyone should be in red and white striped jackets!
 
I'm not so sure the SA is the "devil", but the secular banding movement has certainly sold their souls to them.
 
Neil Clark (Not Cole) 

Music is for everyone to enjoy

I recently put a couple of replies etc to the subject of great Soprano players, and, was not at all annoyed nor disturbed by the replies [John Hinckley,Westhoughton] for example.
 
Moving on, however, I cannot believe the way the movement is heading even just by reading the vitriolic and damaging remarks, however instigated, however by whom.
 
For what reason?  Personal gain? Rivalry? Financial? Relgious?
 
I really do not know, nor, understand why these matters are being discussed.
 
Is the movement, or, it's core values, no longer a part of the lads and lasses, mums, girlfriends, boyfriends, parents, grans and grandpas, band club concerts, et al, something to be controlled by two warring factions?
 
I bloody well hope not!
 
I strongly recommend that we all, in our, and for the sake if OUR movement, do this:
 
Treat the movement as a hobby, which, for most, and all shall ever be, is exactly that!
 
Fun, Music, and, the Social aspect and social bonding and respect.
 
Thats why I joined The Delph Band in 1967 and by golly I miss that band even now.
 
Stop the bellicose and unnecessary crap and behave like reasonable brass banders, which creates, friendships and social joy; in my case spanning  over 43 years.
 
Music, my friends, is music. Enjoy it in any way you can. Politics, regardless of diverse origins, and Religion do not mix.
 
Music is for all
 
Robert Harwood
Banbury 

Casson book?

Lawrence Killian asks if anyone knows about the book Colin Casson has indeed written.

It is due for publication at the end of this month.  There was some hold up due to change of publishers and any information can be obtained from Colin himself at  Suecass16@btnternet.
 
I think it makes good reading...title – ‘Blowing My Own Trumpet’ .
 
D M Hulme

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