Comments ~ 2007: March

More from the Regionals - from Torquay to Stevenage, as well as tipping points and judges, Marines and men with appendages the size of pawn broker signs.

Numbers in the box

Yes, I do agree that should be consistency with the number of adjudicators in the box throughout the regions.

One of the most revealing things for me was the excellent letter from Derek Broadbent that begs the question 'Why AREN'T all adjudicators members of the ABBA'?

This must surely be a minimum qualification by examination? Being a current or one time good player or a good conductor doesn't automatically make someone a good adjudicator and it's an insult to the thousands of bandsmen who take part in the regional contests that people not qualified by examination are allowed to adjudicate. It doesn't matter how prominent a person is, or was, as a player, conductor or composer, adjudicating requires quite different skills.

It's like saying that just because you can drive you can automatically teach another person to drive. Not so. I remember reading an article some years ago where the Director of an international opera house told his performers - the good news is that Placido Domingo is coming - the bad news is he's conducting!

It's horses for courses and hopefully this is an issue the ABBA and the regional committees will address.

Roger Lincoln

The tipping point - The ball is in our court

The article re: Tipping Point is well written and asks for comments and an idea of a way forward. In particular it calls for members of the brass band community to look at the way in which music education is resourced and funded and the way in which it is taught across the curriculum. 

In recent years - in fact since the National Lottery was extended to include arts as a good cause significant resources have been pumped into community arts and brass bands in particular. There's probably not a band that is not either playing an instrument that was bought by lottery money or playing in a building funded by its proceeds – unless of course you play in a Salvation Army Band.

So the problem is not to do with bands and buildings but with programmes of training new players and children in particular. There are good examples of youth music services but all bandsmen in Wales and Scotland can write to their Assembly Members or MSPs and ahead of the elections in May ask, what their plans are for music education and in particular their plans to protect cash to teach music in school.

The election is on May the 3rd so get writing and emailing – perhaps 4BR could provide space to list email addresses for all candidates? And you people power to raise the profile of bands. England will get a chance when Gordon goes to the polls later, in the meanwhile you can still write to your MP.

Secondly bands people need to get active and get involved with the 4 arts councils across the UK and their local committees – this is mainly were decisions on the future funding for arts is made. All these organisations have regional and art form boards. The message is simple, "get involved or get left behind". And then watch other community arts programmes get the revenue money to fund projects and use your band room for their art forms while you struggle to run the junior band.

This brings me to my last point and this is not something that politicians or funding bodies can do. We need to start rating bands by the number of kids they train and the number of community concerts they perform not just their ranking based on contests.

We have to start challenging the rent-a-band phenomenon and look at community bands based in areas supported by local people – something difficult as I know - my own rehearsal schedules involves a round trip of 60 miles but I guess this is quiet local for some people.

There are some cracking programmes out there involving schools, local education authorities and bands but as 4BR point out the ball is in our court nobody else is going to save banding!

Iestyn Davies
Risca
South Wales

A personal tipping point

My "Tipping Point" came at 1.30pm Saturday 19th March: The draw for the first section at Stevenage.

Drawn 14th we had 6 hrs to wait at least before playing. What a waste of a Saturday afternoon.

A draw taken say 2 weeks before the competition would ensure no time wasting, help bands and contest organisers to plan the day, make it less stressful therefore more enjoyable for everybody.
 
Alan Smith
Matthews Norfolk Brass

Accept the decision

OK, so we're hugely disappointed with our result, but if a band puts itself up for adjudication by entering a contest, it has to accept the decision of the adjudicator.
 
William Elsom

Manipulation of adjudicators

I read your editorial on the manipulation of adjudicators by bands in terms of the music played at own choice contests.

Whilst I sympathise with the view that it does over-scientize what should be the presentation of music as a form of entertainment it does however seem quite logical.

Briefly I will outline comparisons that may or may not, depending on your perspective or ideologies, characterise why I believe conductors would be remiss not to analyse those people who are in the box. When a football team approaches their next match they analyse the weaknesses of their opponents AND also those directly involved in the game i.e the officials. Lets say Manchester United were playing Arsenal, for arguments sake we take Arsenal in top form and Utd in average form.

The Utd manager suggests to his players, "they (Arsenal) are in good form so get stuck into them" but he also says "we have a fairly card happy referee today, so be careful in the choice of tackles" or may say "the referee rarely sends people off or is unwilling to give yellow cards". The players then have an idea of how to play the game. The game in this instance is the contest, the referee the adjudicator.
 
This after all is a contest and you want to win. Knowing that an adjudicator will not like a bizarre contemporary piece with little dynamics and prefers "tunes" and playing together would mean that using original or reused pieces highlighting these virtues would give a better opportunity for victory. Seems logical to me, although personally I would like to think that performing a broad repertoire would be preferable.

But in the current climate of league tables and rankings, participation at contests being based on these and a number of other issues, then not doing your "homework" seems like a disadvantage.
 
Sousa, as a bandmaster, researched the venues, local musicians and local composers and invited them to participate in the Sousa band concerts and he conducted in over 15,000 concerts. Is that being cynical or improving an event for both the enjoyment of his band and the participants in the venues in question??

Equally, improving the enjoyment of a band contest, whether in a small or large way (individual motivations decide this), can be increased by winning or qualifying, for both the performers and supporters of the said band. As always it's a case of whether your belief is in persisting and backing your musicality (which you can do in concerts 90% of the year) or winning contests that is the overwhelming preoccupation of the media spotlight.
 
Richard Jones

West of England:

A conductor replies:
 
I thought I would reply briefly to your comments on my reading of Isaiah 40. I do understand that at contests everyone is entitled to an opinion and that that is one of the joys of contesting. However it is reasonable to expect a certain knowledge of the score before being quite so damning.

I would like to point out that the quiet cornet bar that was played from behind the band is, indeed marked "echo" on the score. How is this more ridiculous than having sections standing, using dusters, soloists standing or swapping notes with the soprano cornet? Or is it one rule for the "good bands" and one for the rest?
 
As regards the tempi used; if the first allegro is played at a slower tempo than the one marked it becomes a jaunty tune reminiscent of "everyday country folk" and not "presto brillante". I know because we tried it. I was indeed aware of the composers words regarding the tempo marking of crotchet = 132 in the calypso section. In fact I had already decided that a tempo of crotchet = 120 was more suitable to both the music and the players in the band, and that the use of this tempo, in this movement, did not affect the overall structure of the piece.

In terms of the tempi used from there (T), it is clear to me that for the work to hold together musically the relationship between the sections, in terms of tempi is clearly indicated in the score. Now you could say that the accelerando from W to Y was too much or too little. I chose to interpret this as a gradual accel starting in the 5th bar so that the bar before Y (triplet minims) equalled the dotted crotchet of the next section.

If the tempo at Y is too slow it makes a mockery of the melody line which, whilst marked Maestoso, is also marked dotted crotchet = 72. This tempo allows for sustained melodic playing. I will admit that there was some untidy playing in the fast bits at the very end but musically, in my opinion, the performance as a whole was valid.
 
I feel that your, rather personal, comments that, the lack of lyricism in the solos "grated", went too far in criticising players who work very hard to achieve the standard presented.
 
I would like to say, also, in reply to your general comments concerning the standard of some of the playing in the section that, motivating a band of mixed abilities is one of the most difficult jobs that any band has to undertake. And in this respect the promotion and relegation process is excellent for those bands wishing to contest. I think your article on "Where have all the players gone" is very interesting.

With the exception of our percussion section and one empty chair (2nd Euph) we, Sherborne Town, took the stand with the same players who play at our Carol concerts, outside Sainsbury's at Christmas, the Armistice day parade and who will be playing at the Thornford village fete. We are a town band at the heart of banding. I can think of many bands who have died or gone under because of their desire to win at all costs. You know the sort of thing, one band bought in for the contest and eventually no band at all. In the light of this I was very proud of our Town Band.

You may be interested, or not, to know that it was with this band, started in 1961 by my father, that I first gained my love of banding.
 
I hope it never dies!  
 
Paul Cosh

Respect for Robert Morgan

I am just writing to complain about your review of Lydbrook Bands performance. I feel you are being unfair on them because of Robert Morgan. Hopefully you should know of the respect that people in Gloucestershire have for Robert, for all the work he has done locally and nationally, and also for what he has achieved with Lydbrook.

Just because he is Chairman of the BFBB it doesn't justify such a personal attack on Lydbrook Band. Perhaps they struggled with the jump to the top section, but I think you went too far with your comments.

I would however like to thank you for your fine service to the Brass Band Movement, but I ask you to reconsider the comments you made.

Stuart Jones
Chairman Berry Hill Band

4BR Reply:
We can assure you Stuart that this was not a personal attack in any way and we would ask that you consider the whole of the championship section retrospective as well as the postcard article which covers the subject.  

Arrogance and cowardice

No doubt I am not the only person who is still, one week on, disgusted by the appalling standard of journalism displayed in the West of England Championship Section retrospectives.

The insensitive comments made about several bands show a complete lack of respect for the hours, weeks and months of hard work, blood, sweat and tears that went into every single performance on the day. I doubt there was a single player performing in the top section that could not say they were playing to the very limit of their ability and have come out a better player as a result.

I'm sure that none of the less successful bands on the day are under any illusion about their abilities – I'm a member of one of them and we went to the contest fully aware that we could not match the exceptional standard of PolySteel and the like. What we did do was play the piece to the best of our ability and that in itself was a buzz, regardless of what anyone may have thought of us.

However, what Mr. Fox fails to appreciate is that brass band contesting is not just about being able to play the piece to a certain standard – contesting is as much about challenging yourselves and becoming a better band. The reason bands like Lydbrook, St. Austell and Sherborne are in the top section is because they earned their place there, just like any other band, and they earned this place by the hard work, blood, sweat and tears I mentioned earlier.

In the lovely "Postcard from Torquay", Iwan justifiably commended the standard of youth playing in the West of England and bemoaned the migration of that talent as they grow up. May I suggest that one reason young players become disillusioned with the brass band movement is the rubbishing of their efforts by adjudicators and journalists, and the seemingly endless stream of dodgy adjudication that we hear about around the country.

As older and wiser bandsmen we become hardened to this and load our contest coaches with large quantities of salt, but for younger players this can be thoroughly demoralising and given the alternatives for young people is it any wonder they don't return to banding after university?
 
Perhaps Iwan's experience with the blue rinse brigade had a greater effect on him than he realised – evidently senility is contagious?!

Yes Mr. Fox you have every right to express your opinion but how easy it is to hide behind a website and rubbish people's efforts. If you feel so strongly the need for re-grading perhaps you should stand up after the next contest and state your case face to face with the bands. Feel free to tell us who was "awful" while you're at it. The question is, do you have the balls, or is it just arrogance and cowardice?
 
Thomas Malleson

4BR Reply:
4BR sticks firmly behind the retrospective in question. We do have strong opinions on many subjects - the standard of playing in this section included. However, as we do have the 'balls' to print them we feel that we cannot really be called cowardly or arrogant.

A question of military difference

The retrospectives for the first section contest at Torquay made informative reading as ever but however it would be greatly appreciated if 4barsrest.com could recognise the fact that there is a difference between the army bands and Her Majesty's Royal Marines Bands and the fact that Lt Col Chris Davis is the principle director of music for the latter and Jonathon Camps is a former bandmaster of the Royal Marines Band too.

The Royal Marines Band Service have no connection whatsoever with the army. As you have a web link on your home page for the Royal Marines Band maybe you should go and have a look at the excellent opportunities the Royal Marines Band offers.

Helen Thompson

Marine life

I refer to Stephen Armstrong-Watkins comment in his letter ("Kind words - not!), in which he says that "Chris Davies is not an Army man but a Marine."
 
Chris Davies is not a Marine. He is a Royal Marine.
 
I hope that's cleared up that little confusion!
 
Jonathan Camps

Why is number 1 disadvantaged?

It would seem quite obvious to my self that any band drawn first at a contest is disadvantaged unless the adjudicator is exceptional.

Particularly in the regional qualifiers it would be much fairer to separate a section into 3 groups and rotate the groups on a yearly basis. The bands in each group would still draw for a position within that group thereby preventing anyone identifying the bands individually, but only a 1 in 3 year chance of attracting a handicap

Graham Patterson.

Midlands:

Thanks 4BR!

Thank you for putting my comments on your web site.
 
It was a very genuine thank you! As you can imagine we at Rushden Windmill Band were a little shell shocked at the 3rd section result and your kind words have made things better.

I just didn't think you'd go to the trouble of publishing them. It was not a rant (as I have done in previous years!) I'm post 40 now (!) and can take it on the chin.....just! Personally I just wanted someone in the public eye to come out and say that our 10th was a little harsh.
 
So thank you again.
 
Julia Crask
 
PS - I also read with interest your L & SC preview - particularly your prediction that Bedford will win the the 1st Section. RWB's MD Richard Graves (and my other half) is playing Sop on about 4 rehearsals - so perhaps not then...eh!...or we shall see.

North West:

Proud and upset!

I just wish to make publicly known how very proud I am of my band. Besses Boys Band is a superb group of people and musicians. Their commitment to preparation for this contest was second to none. Their performance did themselves and everyone associated with the band extremely proud, none more so than me. My problem is with how this contest is ran, as well as conducting this band I play with Besses O'Th' Barn Band.

Several weeks before the contest the powers that be were contacted and informed that I would be involved in two performances in two different sections. We were told simply: ‘Don't worry, everything will be fine, there will be no problems' which we took to be true. Come the day of the contest we were in our rehearsal room and for BOTB the draw Number 5 was announced with a playing time of 11.45.

The Boys Band Secretary was informed before the Fourth Section draw. She made the people doing the draw fully aware and estimated the time that our performance would be. Again the words we heard before were reiterated - ‘Don't worry, everything will be fine'. Then the worst happened, and draw number 4 for the Boys Band came out of the bag, with an approximate playing time of 12.00. Again the powers that be were spoken to about the closeness of the two performances, and again they said ‘Don't worry, we will sort it, everything will be fine'.

The playing performance started and finished and was a good one, I got off, started to put my instrument in my case and in full uniform ran round the perimeter of the Winter Gardens to make it in time for the Boys Band. I arrived at the changing rooms desperately looking for my band but they were nowhere to be seen.

I was then grabbed by my Secretary and one of the stewards (who it must be said was very nice, professional and understanding). I was then told that the band playing was my band. I was crushed I was devastated, as it turns out the band were sent onto the stage and one of the Bb bass players had to conduct. The fact that the band was even able to play not only a bass player short but also with a new conductor in front of them is testament to what a fantastic group they are.

I was disgusted with the fact that the band were not allowed to wait for me. I arrived literally 2-3 minutes into their performance and got to hear it through a door. This was then made even worse when I found out that the committee in their wisdom decided to start the contest 10 minutes early!!!!!! Band number 1 was meant to start at 11.00 instead in was 10.50. The one question I ask is WHY!!!!!!

Had they not started early there would have been no problem, and I would have been able to conduct my fine group of musicians.  This is something that seriously needs looking at.  At the end of the day this is a hobby for everyone, and the treatment received on Sunday was not on.

Thank you to the band for their excellent performance and to the one steward at the side of the stage for your kind words.

When a certain gentlemen who helps run the contest was questioned about this the response changed from ‘Don't' Worry, It'll be fine' to a very blunt' - If you don't like the way it's done, vote us off and do it yourself'. How helpful!

Something must be done!
 
J. Holt
MD Besses Boys Band
Solo Bari Besses O' Th' Barn

What about Preston instead of Blackpool?

Yes, it's another moan about the First Section result at Blackpool, and yes, I think that our band should have figured higher up the rankings than they did.

Having got that out in the open (which I think has just cost me a quid) here are some comments on the contest.
 
The Winter Gardens might be a great place to hold the contest because of the size of the venue but the acoustics there are truly dreadful. Your retrospective rightly points this out at some length. The adjudicator's job was then made even more difficult by placing the box up in the ‘gods' where the effects of the hall are at their worst.
 
Its about time that we switched the contest to a venue where the bands can be heard at their best (the Guild Hall in Preston would be a lot better) or at the very least, place the adjudicator in a more sensible position down in the body of the hall if we are to stay in the giant biscuit tin.
 
And Roy Roe?  Well - I did disagree with his comments before the results that nowhere in the piece did the composer ask for aggressive playing – however, there is a FF section marked Irato (angry!!) - how much more aggressive could he have marked it?

As for the result - the only thing I would like to say about that is that he seemed to be defeated by the acoustic just as much as the bands. And finally I would like to  add my vote to the call for two adjudicators - but placed in separate boxes. Now that would make things interesting!
 
Roman Galaska
Flugel Horn
Longridge Band

Why 'No Contest'?

In the Welsh Regional programme, Roll of Honour, the year 1980 states 'No Contest'.  Yet in your archived records you give results for each section.
 
Why are they showing 'No contest'?
 
Paul Fielden
Secretary, Friendly Band

4BR Reply:
That was the year of the great Welsh strike, when Wales was in dispute with the Nationals. They did hold their own contest in Treorchy instead that year and with the exception of the Cory Band, no other Welsh regional band appeared at the National Finals (although some North Wales bands who competed at the North West did). 

Programme prices in the South

Could someone please explain why the London & Southern Counties area programme cost £1.50, when the Midland area programme (with more pages and more colour!) cost a mere £1.00?
 
Answers on a post card please.
 
Julia Crask.

4BR Reply:
Perhaps they have a bit more money south of the Watford Gap - although it was £2.00 for a programme in Wales!

Off to Harrogate!

Just to let Mr McKenna know. We at Clifton & Lightcliffe will be going to Harrogate. Our hotel was booked within one hour of the results in Bradford on the Saturday afternoon.

We are looking forward to our second tilt at the 3rd section finals in two years.

Jane Clay
Secretary

CWS Manchester recordings?

I have been reading the articles about the recordings made by the CWS Manchester Band under the direction of Alex Mortimer.

Have any of these recordings been re-released or still available? I have many fond memories of listening to the CWS Manchester Band and would love to get hold of these recordings.  
 
TJ Chesterman

Thanks for the template

Thank you very much to William Elsom-Darchiashvili for supplying the template for the usual "aftermath" of contest whingers.  My band and many others at Blackpool probably felt the same so I wont bore you with the details other than to say one thing...WHY OH WHY does the NW area championships only deserve ONE adjudicator per section?  In the Yorkshire, West of England, Scottish & Midlands areas all had TWO adjudicators IN EVERY SECTION!!
 
Why is it that at the only contest that we all rely on for promotion (and relegation) we have to depend upon the opinions of one man?  Whats up with the organisers of the NW contest, short of money?  Until we get a level playing field there will never be anything but unrest and despondency within the ranks.
 
By the way, there were 74 bands in the NW area but only 48 in the Scottish area, and they still could afford TWO men in each box.
 
PS...We WUZ ROBBED (Thank you William, your £1 is in the post)
 
Jim Owen
Rossendale

West of England:


Wondering about Mr Fox...

Sometimes we all wonder if Iwan Fox was in the same concert hall as everyone else.

His description of Cwmaman Institute's awful trombone solo at Yeovil as "not bad", combined with criticisms of excess speed for Sherborne at Torquay, when their fast section was taken at least 12 beats per minute under tempo, all point to the commentary of someone not musically competent of judging bands or in need of a hearing aid, and a metronome.

Either way, if you can't give accurate comments on a performance, don't bother. The credibility of your website diminishes every day.
 
Thomas Malleson

4BR Reply:
Iwan wasn't at Yeovil to report on that event this year Thomas. He does have a metronome somewhere but leaves the judgements to the adjudicators in the box – opinions are another matter altogether.

Kind words - not!

Thank you ever so much for the really kind words you have spoken to the world on Swindon Pegasus Brass Band.  I'm the MD, Steve Armstrong - Watkins and I am absolutely thrilled with the way you have welcomed me into the brass band world....not. 
 
I am flattered that you have heard of me and that you know who I am, and by way of contrast.......I have never heard of you!
 
I do so wish that you will contact me and get to know me first before rubbishing my name to the world.  I would love to meet with you or speak with you or be interviewed by you so that I can answer the questions that you obviously have, fairly.
 
I have been conducting brass bands for ........5 months.   So far it has been quite a struggle, with Swindon Pegasus having gone through a traumatic time with the resignation of their previous MD and the subsequent break up of the band.  When I took over in October, there were 12 of us.  The task in hand was to actually get bums on seats and to get a band to Torquay.  We managed that and anything else was to be a bonus.
 
I feel a bit cheated by what you have said, but I do understand your ignorance of the whole matter.  I hear that it is often difficult for brass bands to keep their numbers up and that in-house politics can often be the downfall of the band.  I have taken (obviously) a different approach to looking after my band than my predecessor did and they are now a happy bunch.  We realise that next year's Torquay appearance will need to be a more skilled and effective one.  This year's contest was so very, very difficult for us, the mountain we had to climb was at times, sheer vertical.
 
Our concerts are always a success, and the band is very proud and enthusiastic.  As I understand, the last few years have been hard for the band and by the grace of god they are still up and running.  I see my job as taking them into the future, keeping them up in the 1st section and improving everything that we do.  A hard task, I'm sure you agree.  A task not made any easier by your curt and negative missive on us.
 
Clearly some understanding of the reasons why things happen could benefit your writings.
 
Stephen Armstong - Watkins
 
ps Chris Davies is not an Army man but a Marine.
pps The difficult section in the Homeward Journey is comprised of sextuplets, not triplets.
ppps Welcome to the 'Error Strewn' club.

A little star is born

Thank you for posting picture and kind comments of our soprano player on retrospective.

We are so proud of him and his name is Marcus Fisher. He has just reached the grand old age of 12 (December) and has progressed through our training band as all our young players have.

As we were short of a sop our MD asked him if he would like to try it, this was in January of this year. I think you will agree with me having heard him he is a star, he loves his banding he will I am sure be a name to watch out for in the future.

Once again thank you for the kind words I know it will mean a lot to him.
 
Cyndy Button
Secretary & Web Manager
Cheltenham Silver Band

Re-grading is flawed

I read with interest the comments made by the 4BR crew from Torquay. I have to say that even in spirit the idea that a desperate re-grading is needed is flawed.

All bands need to have something to aspire to and for most bands it is the idea of playing in the championship section. The fact that some bands struggled to cope with the music on the day is not the point. All bands in the Championship section were there by right and deserved the chance to compete.

If those bands that struggled do not improve they get relegated and another band gets the chance to prove itself, that's how it works. If you deny bands the chance then Bournemouth Concert's win in 2005 would not have happened. Straight from the First Section to the Albert Hall.
 
The last reshuffle of sections happened less than twenty years ago it took about five years to settle then and now you are suggesting we should do it again. It is true that every area has four or five bands that regularly fill the top four places but that is true of all competitive arenas (ie football, rugby etc.). Encouragement not condemnation is what we need.
 
Lawrence Butchart

Torquay highlight

I have just come back from a fantastic weekend in Torquay, where not only did my many banding friends get good results in various sections but the band I was playing with grabbed qualification in Section 1 behind one of my former bands.

After a celebratory meal and a very late night indeed we settled down on Sunday with the pressure off to enjoy a great test piece in ‘Isaiah 40', and what a treat it was. Amongst several performances of merit, Polysteel's of course was stunning, and the absolute icing on the cake was Chris Lewis, who pulled off an inspiring and immaculate cornet solo that must have been one of the best in any region this year.

With all eyes on him he showed what a class player he is, and the very best bit was the look on his face as he finally lowered his cornet, sat back in his chair, and let the relief wash over him. I thought the chap was going to cry, and he would not have been the only one. This is what banding is all about, and why we put ourselves through it all. I was proud of our movement and of our many fantastic bands.

Thank you Chris....you made my weekend.
 
Dave Wilds

North West:


Why just the one?

After playing at the area contest at the Blackpool Winter Gardens on Sunday I am absolutely astounded that the North West competition only has one adjudicator for each section when it seems like most of the other areas have two for each section.

Why is this? I understand that the Winter Gardens is the envy of most areas in terms of venue as all the sections can take place on one day however the Winter Gardens must be an expensive venue to hire and therefore not leaving enough in the pot to hire two adjudicators for each section?

Can anyone answer this question, as it seems like when we are all supposed to be striving for continual success to reach the dizzy heights of the finals later in the year that on an equality basis it seems a little unfair!
 
Lynn Broadbent

No shock about it

...........whilst the shock result so far of the whole regional championships must surely have been the announcement of Fairey's in 5th place under Peter Parkes – their worst result since 1989.
 
No Shock about it. They were out played by two better bands. Especially Wingates playing off No 1.
 
This was the best the band had played in the last 10 years on a concert stage and a lot of praise should go to Andy Berryman for the way he read the score and made the band feel as one on stage.
 
I do get your drift about Fairey's but don't forget to mention the great performance Wingates put in and just to miss out on a trip to London.
 
The band started of the weekend by playing Abide with me in memory of Malcolm Wood's dad Stan and I feel after the hymn was played the band paused before reflecting on the weekend. Did this help. Was Stan looking down on one of his old bands? Who knows? What ever the reason Wingates made a great impression on a lot of people in Blackpool.
 
Keep up the good work in bringing the band news to us all.
 
Graeme Hall

Disappointing comments

I was very disappointed to read your retrospective on the First Section at Blackpool.

We were placed 3rd in a very difficult field. Our adjudicator's comments have no resemblance to yours at 4BR. Maybe your team need to study what you are talking about before you print, as our interpretation obviously suited what Mr Roe required. Your comments can be very detrimental to a bands progress.
 
Duncan Byers

Thanks for the Anthem help
 
I would like to publicly thank Haslingden & Helmshore Brass Band for their support and aid in an emergency!

An oversight meant that Ashton Band had forgotten to bring the hymn books and then we drew first! While the stereotype means that most players are meant to know the National Anthem off by heart, we felt we would prefer not to test this principle on stage at the areas.

Haslingden stepped into the breach, offering a full set for us to borrow, to avoid any blushes or errors. We are of course extremely grateful for this assistance. Maybe one
day, if we ever organise ourselves, we could do the same deed. Many thanks indeed.
             
Graham Hetherington, 
Band Manager, Ashton Under Lyne Band.

The best bands came 5th, 7th and 12th...

Firstly well done to Timperley for winning the First Section, but for the results from the First Section as a whole .... what a load of bobbins they were.

How could the three best performances by far said by many people come 5th, 7th and 12th - those bands being Co-op, Longridge and Besses.

People knew about Roy Roe's adjudicating abilities, so why use him in one of the top sections in the contest? This brings me to another point. How come that the North West area has only got 1 adjudicator sat in the box in each section, where all of the other contests around the country have two in the box if I am not mistaken. So why is the North West any different?
 
If anyone agrees with what I have said about results and the adjudicating at Blackpool then say so.
 
A. Whitfield

Midlands:

The spirit of contesting - 35 years ago...

I was just reading your review of Midlands Second Section for this year-
 
"......Jackfield (Elcock Reisen) must not have rated their chances too highly after being picked out of the bag to play number 1, after a request for an early draw slot...... "
 
How the spirit of competition has changed in the Midlands...  35 years ago I was the (painfully) young 14 year old Solo Euph at Thoresby - We actually offered to play the No. 1 draw  - in the top section at the Midland area on Plantagenets -  as five of our players had said they had to leave the contest in Leicester at 3pm - they'd formed a... "ahem"...  dance band...  and wanted the "bucks" in addition to earning top class wages at the colliery. (Yes, we sacked them after!)
 
At the draw, all was OK until...  Desford objected and Thoresby did not therefore compete that year.
 
Hah... we won it in 75 though! - on Journey Into Freedom with Edward Gregson judging... you get what you give hey?

Keith Wardle

Thanks for the retrospective

Thank you for your retrospective on the Midlands 3rd Section Mr Perry.
 
We at Rushden felt we played well - especially the opening sop/horn thing. We came off stage thinking that we had certainly improved on last year's 8th and thinking, maybe, possibly a frame place.

So as you can imagine a 10th place was a HUGE disappointment - it left all of us thinking - 'what do you actually have to do to win a contest?' Then you begin to wonder, did we play well, and why do I even bother with the extra rehearsals, babysitters etc?
 
Our MD (who is also my other half!) stuck to the tempi on the score and felt that other bands played things under tempo, we had light and shade and the opening was played at a comfortable volume so as not to be timid - even tho' we were both sh****** bricks!
 
At least you at 4BR have provided us with some (much needed) comfort - and maybe, just maybe I will just go thru' it all again next year!
 
Julia Crask
Soprano, Rushden Windmill Band.

Not so quiet Derwent

So 4barsrest think that Derwent Brass have been quiet on the contest scene (regional previews)?
 
Though we haven't taken part in contests such as The Senior Cup , Pontins etc, we have been making our mark at other prominent contests. At Buxton Brass Band Festival Championship and 1st Section combined we took 3rd place and were the highest 1st Section band. At the Leicester Brass Band Association Contest we took 2nd place.
 
Then we took 2nd place and best soloist for Dai Roberts our soprano player at Brass at the Guild. I thought that this contest was thought to be a high profile contest....
 
Finally we took second place at the Midlands Area this weekend. Hardly a quiet band on the contesting scene then!
 
Jennifer Marsden
Derwent Brass

Date change

In response to Gary Jones comments about my opinion of the Midlands Areas proposed date change.

Firstly I have to point out I was not knocking the area committee but only commenting on what problems that a change may cause some bands, also the venue change has been talked about for a long time this is nothing new.

Secondly for his information I have already been in contact with Lesley and I've received a very good response and was thanked for taking the time to contact her. I'm sorry that Mr. Jones feels that is was not a sensible comment but that is only my own personal opinion.
 
 
Mike Kilmartin

Scotland:

Thanks lads...

I think that the job you guys do is fantastic. Whether people agree with your comments or not, I can assure you they are always the talking point in every band rehearsal room after competitions.

Keep up the good work.

B. Baillie
Annan Town Band. (Just relegated from Scottish 2nd section. Thanks for your kind remarks.)

Yorkshire:

Lenient is one thing....

If I may be allowed to defend myself.

My comments from the stage at Bradford have been misinterpreted by Terry Casey. I was lenient with percussion because some bands lacked the necessary players to play the part.

All bands had solo cornet players! If I may add, I have never ever been pathetic Mr. Casey.

Peter Roberts

Does it really matter?

In response to Terry Casey's comments on the Yorkshire 3rd section's adjudicator being lenient to percussionists, the same comments could be made regarding Midland 3rd section's soprano and solo horn part. Our players worked very hard to play a very difficult part, only to be told in the adjudicators' overview that, at this level, they hadn't worried too much about mistakes in these parts.
 
In the Third Section, should we play our less competent players in the soloist seats, if their performances aren't going to matter when life gets a bit difficult?
 
Andrea Boardman

Another pair of withdrawals
 
Just to add to your list of withdrawals from the Regional Championships. My band Holme Silver (Disposables UK) & Grange Moor Brass band both had to withdraw from this years Yorkshire 1st Section contest due to being unable to field a band.
 
David Turnbull

Yet another 4BR mistake!

After having read your retrospectives, I would just like to point out that 4barsrest has made yet another mistake in that when bands go to the finals.

It is Harrogate they go to and not 'Harrgate'. Unless of course that is where Clifton & Lightcliffe are taking a trip to for the National Finals. Well, looks like they will be the only ones at 'Harrgate'.

Chris McKenna

Interesting foreigners

I found Stuart Morgan's comments regarding imported foreign players very interesting. This is a process that has been growing in popularity among our top bands for some time now and is, I feel, indicative of the general negative attitude our banding community has come to adopt over the years.
 
Like Stuart, my early grounding started with the school band (all the local schools had one in my area) and progressed through the conductor's outside senior band and so on. It is true that this structure no longer exists in the majority of schools nationwide and I think we would be foolish to expect the situation to improve.  However, this does not excuse the brass band world's lack of action to remedy the situation. I can of course only speak from my own personal experience, but I suspect that it is an experience that others will recognise.
 
I have been living in this area now for around twenty years and in that time I have been associated with several bands, and closely with three. In each case the subject of ‘growing our own players' has been discussed on very many occasions and in great detail. The trouble though is that in practice nobody seems keen to get off their backside and actually DO anything. It seems that basic human nature prevails and we all wait for ‘someone else' to make things happen – and I do include myself in that category!
 
Is it any wonder then that with home grown talent becoming scarcer, that our top bands are looking elsewhere? I think it is entirely understandable. Sad, but understandable.
 
I have been prophesying doom for this band movement that I have devoted my life to for a good many years now, based solely on what I see happening (or perhaps more accurately, NOT happening) around me. Believe me, I would much rather be predicting a rosy future for the world of brass bands and I sincerely hope that the trends will take a turn for the better soon. But unless we are prepared to take some positive steps and ‘put ourselves out' I can't see matters improving.
 
Prove me wrong somebody, please!
 
Roger Pearcey,
Suffolk.

What about the Aussies, Scots, Welsh etc...

I have read with interest the comments about the "foreign legion" coming to the UK to play at the recent Regional Competitions and I have to say whilst I agree home grown talent in the long term is the best solution, there is a pressing problem most bands have i.e. player shortages, and unfortunately that has to be dealt at the moment, whilst in parallel spending time developing talent so you have a full band in the future.
 
I cite one example of Band's using foreign players and that is Ransomes who fielded, I believe 4 players from mainland Europe.  So what is my point?  Had they not done so, they wouldn't have gone to the contest, which in my opinion is a far worse outcome than using non UK players.  The drive and determination of the Ransome's Band Management, notably Steve Thompson, John Gregory, Dave Hughes and Jim Henson, to ensure that they attended the Areas, far outweighs any potential controversy over the use of foreign players.  Please note other than having some friends in this Band, I have no connection with them at all.
 
Another point as well, is whenever one of our movement's Luminaries travels abroad to contest with bands in the Southern Hemisphere, it is seen as a PR exercise not a controversy over importing players.  Personally I think it is quite healthy that we see how players are performing in other countries.  It is a useful benchmark to our own perception.
 
On a lighter note, in my Band, we have 2 Aussies, 4 Scots, one from Nottingham and even one from Cornwall.  We have more problems with regional dialects than registration. J
 
 
Richard Walker
The Leyland Band
Nottingham born and bred

Not quite up to basics

I read with interest the comments of Stuart Morgan regarding the foreign players debate.
 
His second paragraph states: "I learn't (sic) the basics at school for free."
 
Apparently not!
 
Nicholas Garman

Points and places

We don't really have a system of adjudication that uses points it is one that uses placings. It claims to use points but the reality in my view is different.
 
Take the area contests so far, 5 areas each with 5 section so 25 contests and the contest that recently caused all the fuss because the adjudicator did stick to a points based adjudication.
 
Where a points system was applied there was a very wide gap between top and bottom and between individual bands and this is the real world. When I go to contests I hear comment such as "couldn't split so and so", "so and so were miles ahead of the rest", "so and so were terrible and were out of their depth" but this never gets reflected in the points.
 
At the areas the adjudicator has upto 200 points at his discretion but if there are twenty bands then seems to feel he can only rank them one point above the next with the odd gap of 2 points. This means he is really only marking out of approximately 25 points. Additionally how often are bands in the same section given equal points, hardly ever – 2nd section in the WoE has two bands tied and is the only contest out of the 25 so far to have a tie.
 
So lets not kid ourselves that we have points, we only have rankings and it appears no two bands in a section can give performances of equal merit.
 
Phil Shatliff

The cinderella barking iron

What have we done to deserve this kind of treatment?
 
As clearly stated on the hallowed pages of this web site I am a great believer in the retention of Cinderella status of the baritone (barking iron....ref Prof. W B Hargreaves circ 1984) and not one for solo baritone!
 
I have enjoyed for many years sitting safely, even smuggly, in the middle of the band watching people sweat as their key solo passages came up in the pieces being played happy that it wouldn't happen to me!
 
What do I find? After getting through mutliple pairs of undergraments and thinking I could retire the bicycle clips for a while someone brings out In thingemy (can't spell) RK and what does that open with...........
 
Be fair.....I cant afford the washing powder!
 
J. Corrigan...barking iron player!

The question of points and placings - from ABBA

I note, with interest, the comments made re- the use of points for contest results. This is a subject which is frequently discussed by the Association of Brass Band Adjudicators. Many of our members are in favour of 'placings' only, others, not quite so convinced. Likewise, within all the brass band  movement, there are differences of opinion.

There are many contests run under different rules and it is the job of the adjudicator to produce the result and neccesary paper work within the bounds of these rules. We would welcome any uniformity on this issue.

Whilst I understand the frustrations of Mr. Stephen Longman re- his comparison of points awarded at various contests, I would like to point out a couple of things.
 
Firstly, not all adjudicators are members of ABBA, and secondly, the points listed in our 'criteria' are, as you rightly state, only recommended. I do observe that the contests used in the said  comparisons, took place some six months or so before we released our Performance Assessment Criteria to all our members and to the media.

The PAC, as we have stated, will be under constant review. We all hope for some uniformity in future contests, and we are grateful for any interest shown in these matters. 
 
Derek M. Broadbent,
Chairman, The Association of Brass Band Adjudicators

Why the foreign legion of imports?

I've just read your news item about foreign imports for the forthcoming regional contests. Yes, there is a shortage of players in all levels of banding, but why?

When I was young I learn't the basics at school for free and then went on to join a local band and progressed to the a championship section band, that opportunity is not easily available now at schools so local bands need to take on the role.

The way is to produce your own by setting up learner schemes and teaching from the grass roots.  Our band trains its own youngsters, and has done for many years with a dedicated nucleus of senior players. A few of our players have come  through the ranks of Trainer Band, B Band and Senior Band and gone on to play with Championship bands at the very highest level.
We are justly proud of that progression and they go to the top bands with our blessing, they return from time to time with that value of knowing where their roots are.

The banding movement is in danger of losing it's values of community in the striving to win pots at any cost with the import of stars. How many reserve team players make it out of the Chelsea reserve side to play in the Premiership? Bringing in players from further and further afield, I fear, can spell doom to some bands not able to afford the increase cost these player demand.

Our band will be competing at the area contest and the same personnel could turn out to a concert or practise the next week, how many of the "bought-in bands" could say the same.

Bands like ours see it's role as providing an important service to the community, not only by playing in the local area for local organisations using local players but by teaching local children.  It's a shame some of the "big names" don't use their finances to concentrate on their local youth.

We mustn't lose that sense of community, banding is a community in itself and many friendships forged by involvement in it. Get back to the values that banding is all about, not pots at any cost, it's a slippery slope followed by a few bands in the not too recent past!

Stuart Morgan
Hathern Band
1st Section

Just in case someone out there wants to make an excuse pretty sharpish

"I would just like to say that our performnace at the Regionals contest for the (INSERT REGION HERE) was not reflected in the band's placing. We were ready to play having rehearsed (INSERT TITLE OF PIECE HERE) very thoroughly, with the assistance of (INSERT NAME OF WELL RESPECTED ADJUDICATOR/COMPOSER/PROFESSIONAL PLAYER) and our performance deserved better than (INSERT GIVEN PLACE HERE). we should have placed at least (NUMBER) places higher.
 
I would like to put on record that the venue for the (INSERT REGION HERE) contest, (INSERT VENUE HERE) was well below par, and having to pay an extra (AMOUNT) to hear the other bands was disgraceful.
 
I am totally disheartened by the whole experience and do not know if I can ever face contesting with (INSERT NAME OF OWN BAND HERE) again.
 
The results were the biggest debacle since (INSERT OWN CHOICE OF WHEN YOUR BAND WAS ROYALLY SCREWED AND SHOULD HAVE FINISHED FIRST)."
 
(c) 2007 Will Anticipatory Whinges Limited
 
Anyone using any of the above comments on 4BR in the weeks coming will have to pay me royalties of £1 a clause.
 
I'm gonna be rich!

William Elsom-Darchiashvili
Arranger, Composer
Fulham Brass Band

Dismayed at comments

I was very dismayed to hear the comment of Peter Roberts, the adjudicator for the regional finals, Section 3 at Bradford.

He stated that the percussion part was very difficult and because of this he was lenient in his marking. He gave the reason that it is very difficult to find good percussionist, and it was a very difficult part to play. That is pathetic! Most of the parts were difficult to play, and it is very difficult to get good players to play them all the time.

What would happen if there was a fiendishly difficult solo cornet part, would he use the same rule book and be as lenient, I don't think so. Yes, good percussionists are hard to come by, but when they all work hard at perfecting their part, it would appear that their efforts are not considered by the judges. They may as well not even try to play the part or failing that not turn up at all, and the band would still achieve the same result.
 
Terry Casey

Are the rankings right?

I looked at the latest rankings with the usual interest, but noting the lists of contests that have been used, isn't there one glaring omisssion? .....  The Brass at the Guildhall contest at Preston Guildhall in February.  This contest featured several ranked bands (some quite high on the rankings table) and I thought that this contest was a well supported event and considered to be a contest of some merit. Is there any particular reason for it's omission?
Keith Leonard 

4BR Reply:
We have contacted out stats man and he has confirmed that the contest was not included in the rankings. He will include them for the next round up after the regional championships.  That will not affect the points awarded etc.
 

Wallace mouthpieces

In regards to the question about John Wallace mouthpieces, details of suppliers and stock can be found at www.wallacebrass.co.uk

Alan Douglas
Tullis Russell Mills Band
www.trmb.org.uk

My old Kentucky home

Can anyone help? One of our pupils is keen to play My Old Kentucky Home on cornet for an A-level exam coming up. We have the soloist part but not a piano copy.
 
Can anyone help?
 
Gordon Eddison
Yorkshire

Venue change?

Mike Kilmartin is quick to knock the proposed date change for the Midlands area & pushes to get the venue changed. Certainly a change could have an effect (it is only 1 week after half term) but part of the reason for looking at a change of date is, I believe, to accommodate a change of venue.

Lesley & the Area Committee are working very hard get a new venue & Lesley has requested in themouthpiece.com (sensible!) suggestions.

Look on the bright side Martin – at least Midlands bands are being consulted over proposed changes rather than them being just enforced upon us. 
 
Gary Jones

What do points make?

The question of awarding points has been part of the brass band movement since contesting begun, but just like smoking it now seems that its time has come to be pushed to one side and alienated.

That cannot be too soon for me as I have found the whole process pointless (if you excuse the unintended pun). Why do we need to have points in the first place – it is the placing that counts at the end of the day.

Perhaps there is some argument that they show the difference between bands in terms of the closeness of the results – but does anyone really thinks that it is a particularly accurate refection?

The British Open no longer places bands in points order, and neither does Pontins, the Spring Festival or other contests. Time for everyone else to follow suit.

Ian Watkins
Sale

Do points make any sense at all?
 
Well done 4BR for making the argument to abandon the award of points at contests. They never make any real sense.

Last year Grimethorpe and Black Dyke gave perhaps two of the highest standard performances at the Regional Championships anyone could have wished to have heard and were awarded 196 and 195 points by two of the most experienced judges we have in the movement, James Scott and David Read.

A couple of weeks later and at London and Aveley & Newham and Staines Brass were awarded 197 and 196 points in winning their area. The Kidlington Band who came third was awarded 195 points by adjudicator Colin Hardy.

With the greatest respect to the three bands at Stevenage, but does that make sense at all?

Peter Cole
Chichester

Even ABBA's criteria makes no sense
 
If you ever want to know that the time has come to get rid of points then you only have to look at ABBA's own criteria for ‘recommended highest marks' per section:

Championship: 197
First: 192:
Second: 188
Third: 184
Fourth: 180

However they say, in certain circumstances judges can at their discretion award higher marks should performances merit them.

In Bradford last year Grimethorpe won the Championship Section with 196 marks yet delivered by common consent a quite outstanding performance. Meanwhile Horbury Victoria won the Third Section and was awarded 185 points on a piece the adjudicators remarked all the bands found difficulty in playing on the day! Meanwhile six bands in the Fourth Section were awarded marks above the recommended highest for the section, where the standard of playing was not as high as many had hoped for – including the judges.

Not one band gained a maximum in any section in Scotland, four bands were awarded over the maximum in the North West, two in the Midlands, three in Wales, two in the North East, eight in the West (including 7 in the Fourth Section) and eight in London (including the winners of the Championship Section) and no less than six bands in the Fourth Section.

What does this tell us? Points are meaningless. Was there any relevance in the points awarded at Yorkshire to say London or Scotland or the North West? Of course not.

What players and supporters want is to know why a band came where it did, and usually the judges tell us that anyway before the announcement of the results. Giving points (there was 25 bands at Stevenage last year in the Fourth Section and the points difference between the band coming first and the band coming last was 24 points – was there really 1 point difference between all the bands on the day?) has no relevance at all to the result. I for one hope they are got rid of as soon as possible

Stephen Longman
London

Why the move?

I am sure I am not alone in noticing that the NW Area Championship Section has been moved into the Empress Ballroom this year (at least that is what is says on your Area Contest Preview).
 
Does anyone know what the story is here?  Is this a permanent change or a one-off?
 
It's not a venue I personally like at all with little acoustic merit in any of the halls - including the Opera House, but I do accept the commercial realities of the situation.  To house all sections simultaneously under one roof and have space for supporters and trade stands is very compelling and in that respect it is the rival of any venue in the country. 

Coupled with plenty of B&B accommodation for people wanting to make a weekend of it, not to mention the attractions in Blackpool itself and I don't doubt that taking the majority view it is a popular venue.  I also know that these halls tend to be booked years in advance as they are in demand so there are commitments to stay in one place for several years running.  But we're awash with good concert halls in the North West and it is a little frustrating to be short-changed musically especially when you work so hard in preparation for contests.
 
Has the time come for a review I wonder?  In the same way that the electoral commission moves constituency boundaries every so often to keep the population levels across those constituencies roughly even, should we review which bands play in which area?  I am sure that the costs of attending are substantial for those bands furthest out – regardless of section.  I am not trying to get rid of Fodens from the NW area but how many bands in the South of Cheshire are actually a lot nearer to Burton than to Blackpool?  Would Glossop find it easier to get to Bradford than Burton (and didn't they once complete in the NW area?).
 
In certain parts of the country where the population of bands is more sparse it is inevitable that longer distances would have to be travelled but I believe that as a National Band movement we have a responsibility to try and keep things as fair and even for all competing bands in all sections in terms of financial outlay and therefore we should as far as possible play in venues that are as close to central in each area as possible whilst still providing competing bands with a decent quality acoustic in which to perform.  With the venues selected we adopt a trusty compass and draw circles.  Those bands in the gaps between circles don't get to compete anywhere (only joking!!!) – but let's apply some common sense.  Any thoughts?
 
Finally I would like to publicly thank Phil Lawrence for his advice on servicing my poor chops – much appreciated Phil it is remiss of me not to thank you sooner!
 
Andy Wyatt

Date change could lead to problems
 
I have read your announcement on the news desk about a possible date change in 2008 for the Midlands regionals. I play for Leicester based band and we compete in the Butlins Mineworkers contest in Janruary.

In this case for bands in the same position as we are, a change in dates would make it very hard for the band to get things ready in time. Unless they use the same test pieces as each other. In general it is a good idea for bands that don't compete at Butlins.

What they should be looking at is a change in venue which has been mention many times before.

Mike Kilmartin

Looking for help

For the past few years, I have been working at the University of Sheffield conducting research into what being a brass musician means to different people.  Brass has a well-documented technical and social history, spanning everything from brass band culture, orchestral playing, jazz, as well as technical and repertoire development.  Nevertheless, there is little research about the social and psychological aspects of playing brass in the twenty first century.

My research investigates the many ways that playing is incorporated into our lives, becoming a natural part of who we are.  Questions central to the project are; Does a stereotypical brass musician really exist?  Why choose to play one instrument over another?  What does being part of a band add to your life? Et cetera.

If you would like an opportunity to take part in this research, there are two projects currently underway. The first is a large-scale social survey of brass musicians at all stages of their musical careers.  I am looking for a diverse range of responses, so if you have ever picked up a brass instrument please go to www.kategee.co.uk and complete the questionnaire. Secondly, if you are a musician that has been working for over twenty years and would like an opportunity to tell your ‘life story,' please get in touch. There are some great prizes to be won for 15-20 minutes of your time!

If you have no internet access and require a postal copy of the questionnaire, please contact me: Kate Gee, Music Psychology Research, Psychology Department, University of Sheffield, Western Bank, Sheffield, S10 2TN).  k.gee@sheffield.ac.uk.

Kate Gee

4BR Reply:
Anyone interested, then please get in touch direct

Where was I?
 
I am desperate to re-trace my steps when I played for Matlock Brass Band as a boy around 23 ish years ago, under Murray Slater.
 
I remember clearly competing at the Albert Hall, playing the Glockenspiel and coming second to last. I understand this must have meant we were in the Championship Section, although I thought we were in the 2nd Section at the time.
 
I can't find any evidence in the Results Archive. I am sure it must have been between 1982 - 86.
 
Can you help in any way - i.e. point me in the right direction. I can't find anything via Google.
 

Giles Hawtin


4BR Reply:
Can anyone help Giles to retrace his banding steps?

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