Comments ~ 2007: January

Everyone smells the same rat; Lonely hearts club anyone; Great contest...

Smelling a rat is the same for everyone

I've said it before in the comments section and I'll say it again – at the end of the day regardless of the difficulties (or not) of the test piece, all the bands playing it face the same challenges in a set piece contest.  That's why they call them 'test pieces'.

If the piece is challenging for the 3rd section, which I believe it is (in places) then all the bands face the same challenges.  Yes, the soprano and solo horn players may well have that brown runny adrenaline feeling before the baton goes up, but they all will!  The solo cornet players will be feeling their stomachs churning worrying about that top A in the solo passage all the way through (as will the solo trombones a few bars later).

But the challenge is the same for them all.  If they all make a complete dog's dinner of it, then the band that makes the most attractive dog's dinner of it (in the opinion of the adjudicators) should win.  It's that simple really!!

Good luck to all wearers of bicycle clips in the 3rd (and other) sections.

Colin D. Gallagher
Coalburn Band (3rd Section!!!)

Great contest in Greater Gwent
 
Having attended the Greater Gwent Youth Contest at Cross Keys with Lydbrook Training Band, I must say what a great event this is.  We have been attending now for about 6 years and the festival is really a great day out in the brass band calendar.

Hundreds of young people take part and never a hint of trouble - obviously due to the discipline and respect encouraged in the young people from day one in the band room.

If we could only persuade local authorities throughout the UK to support this type of activity to a much greater degree, many many more young people could be taken off the streets and encouraged to become part of a team and a community building organisation.

The atmosphere in the hall was terrific all day and the appreciation shown to the Camborne Youth Band for a spectacular performance to round off the festival was typical of the event.  We had five 9 year olds competing for the first time who sat in abject amazement at the performance of Camborne Youth, which has given them all something to aspire to.

If only we could ‘bottle' this atmosphere we could sell it worldwide.

Thanks are due to Alan Evans and his team for another great day at Cross Keys.  We look forward to next year with anticipation.

Robert Morgan 
Secretary
Lydbrook Band

Lonely hearts club anyone?
 
What are the chances of putting a "lonely Hearts" column for single bandsmen on your website????
Probably a daft idea,but nothing ventured-nothing gained!

Karen Rickards

4BR Reply:
What are you doing tonight then....

Rothwell response

I write on behalf of the organisational team of Brass in concert in response to the letter published in your 'Comments' section on 19 January. A very wise friend once told me that I should be very careful in what I wished for. In requesting that 4BR ignore 'closed events' for the purposes of their rankings, he would in fact be denying Rothwell Band the points for arguably their greatest victory in recent times, that of the All England Masters International last year, which of course is an 'invitational' event, with invites left entirely at the discretion of the organisers.

The term 'closed' event is a little unfortunate - it seems to suggest that the band line-up would never change. Brass in Concert is an 'invitational' event, meaning that the organisers hold the option of inviting the bands they wish to compete, but not that this line-up would never change. Indeed, the band line-up at Brass in Concert has been in minor flux throughout its history, with small changes in every one of its 30 year history.

Mr Shenton is incorrect in stating that Roy Newsome and myself dictate the choice of bands. Discussions on this subject are shared throughout the organisational team (which would include Paul & Jackie Beere, together with David Bennett) in addition to the names Mr Shenton highlights. This group do not always share the same individual views, but reach agreement by consensus.

There are several 'drivers' in determining the list of invited bands. Overall, the aim is usually to have 11-12 bands competing (12 in 2006). The top 7 bands from the previous year are almost guaranteed to receive an invite for the following year. In addition, the organisational team have taken the step to invite 1 (or maybe 2) overseas bands each year - an excellent way to introduce new bands to the Brass in Concert public and to keep the competition 'fresh'.

This worked particularly well in 2006 with the participation of the Brass Band of Central Florida. The remaining 2-3 of places are where the strongest debate usually occurs - where 'loyalty' to bands who have supported the event over the years, rankings places and geographical representation tend to be the focus of discussion. In a perfect world the organisers would always wish to present the strongest line-up possible.

Rothwell currently sit 15th in the 4BR/World of Brass rankings and as such would be one of the bands featuring in the shake-up for the final invites, and if they were to be invited (this year or at some stage in the future) would be welcomed with the usual hospitality that all bands have enjoyed at this excellent event over the years.

Trevor Caffull
on behalf of the Brass in Concert Championship.

Smelling a rat

My own band Kingdom Brass have been engaged by the Conductors Association in Scotland to demonstrate the difficulties of the 2nd 3rd and 4th Section test pieces for the forthcoming area contests.

Personally I have done this before and one thing comes immediately to mind, what do the panel of experts have against the 3rd Section Bands ?

I smelled a rat a few years ago when Gilbert Vinters 'Vizcaya 'was chosen and again when 'Tam O'Shanter' came up. Sadly, having worked on the pieces for a week or two it's happened again !!! The third Section piece has an opening which, should conductors stick to the scoring, would frighten the Top Section.Further to this and to rub salt in the wound, the 4th Section piece is harder than the 2nd !!!

Would someone out there like to come back at me and justify the panels choices !

David

The hardest question of all....

Does anyone know how many brass bands there are worldwide?

Glyn MacDonald

4BR Reply:
We don't know Glyn, but someone may have a guess if we try to tot up all the bands that take part in the various contest around the globe in one year and then perhaps double it for all the non contesting bands, plus add 10%  for the Salvation Army, and add....it could be a big figure indeed.

Help to commemorate

Our band who are going to Flanders on St.Patrick's Day to commemorate the fallen Irish men of World War 1 and we are looking to obtain music that was played at that time.

Where can we get it? It is very difficult trying to get archived marches. Can anyone help us?
 
Noel Barr 
St.Joseph's Brass Band
Strabane
Co. Tyrone
Northern Ireland
<bethelbarr@btinternet.com>

Blame it Mrs Thatcher 

I am writing in response to Mike Hughes' comments regarding the coal industry and the CISWO contests.

He states the Tories didn't butcher the industry but that it was in fact Labour. How wrong Mr Hughes is.  Yes, under Labour there were pit closures but not to the extent that followed under the Tories.  Since 1984 Thatcher and John Major managed to close approx 110 mines in the 10 year period leading up to privatisation. All this in an attempt to crush communities across the country.  Even privatisation, one of Thacher's great ideas, has left only 7, soon to be 6, deep mines left in this country.

Along with the mines, how many bands have folded?! You can slate CISWO contests but through the mining industry they funded gala days, qualifiers for Blackpool, mineworkers camps and obviously the finals at Blackpool.  All these are now a thing of the past thanks to Thatcher and her "I'll show them who is in charge" attitude.

Nick Harris
A working coal miner and bandsman

Not all the old colliery bands are gone

Many thanks for a well written piece about the demise of the mining industry. You did ask about what appears to be the demise of a few of the bands that competed regularly at Blackpool.

Well I can report that the old Teversal Collieries Welfare Band is alive and kicking in the form of The Hopkins Solicitors Blidworth Welfare Band. The old Teversal Welfare closed in 1980 and it left the band looking for a new home. After a few lean years we have at long last got ourselves promoted to the dizzy heights of the 1st Section.

Any more information can be found on our website http://www.blidworthwelfareband.co.uk

Keep up the good work at 4barsrest.

Nev Buxton.

I just read that Eric Vine is looking for recordings of 4 old testpieces. I had a quick look through my CD collection and I was able to find 2 of them.
 
Variations for Brass Band (1957) is on a Black Dyke recording called Champions of Brass. It's still available from Amazon uk (search for Champions of Brass).

Variations on the Shining River (1958) is recorded by Desford Colliery Caterpillar Band on their CD called Variations (conducted by James Watson). 
 
Claudio Nold
Switzerland

The classics are still out there

Following is at least a partial discography of the pieces in question:

Overture for an Epic Occasion was recorded by Kenneth Denison and City of Coventry on LP but is not on any current CD; Festival Music is available on a CD of the same name by Black Dyke; Variations on the Shining River is on CD's by Desford (Variations); Black Dyke (Epic Brass) and Fairey (Brass from the Masters - Vol.1); and Variations for Brass Band is on CD's from Black Dyke (Champions of Brass) and Fairey (Brass from the Masters - Vol.1).

A quick check indicates that all the CD's except Variations by Desford are still available.

John Brooks
Cambridge, Ontario

No ranking points for Brass in Concert
 
I write to you on behalf of the Rothwell Temperance Band to protest about the inclusion of the Brass In Concert Competition in your ranking system.
 
For the last 5 years I have written to Jackie Beere, who organises the contest, to enquire about how a band qualifies or gets considered for invitation to the contest. Today I spoke with her again to discover that our band has yet again been looked over, and that we will probably not be considered for next year's event either because the plans are already laid down. When I asked how the invited bands were agreed upon, I was told that there is a two man committee of Roy Newsome and Trevor Caffull of World in Brass (who sponsor the event) who agree the invitees and that is that. No appeal, no discussion.
 
We insist that if the competition is a closed event, like it is, then there must be no ranking points awarded to the bands that compete. Only when there is a clear method of achieving an invitation should the contest be included in the ranking points, otherwise there are bands like Reg Vardy, Sellars and Whitburn who start off behind our band in the rankings and then get promoted above us because they have some way of getting invited to the competition. Polysteel, despite being repeatedly invited, are still behind us in the rankings.
 
The award of points in this case is unfair, unjust and must be stopped immediately. Perhaps if there were no ranking points, the event would not attract some of the bands who compete and this would force the organisers to set the entry qualifications out in advance which would make this a fair candidate to be once again included.
 
 
Mike Shenton
Rothwell Temperance Band

4BR Reply:
The World of Brass/4BR rankings take into account as many contests as possible to try and give an accurate reflection of the current banding scene. That does include contests that are 'invitation' events and we see nothing wrong with that - what about the English Nationals for instance or even the Masters? Although we appreciate your point of view, we see no need for change to the current ranking system that we use.

Miners in November not in the Summer

I enjoyed reading the 2007 Butlins Intro - The review of the contest and the Coal Mining Industry, I thought was well written. Just One thing - the picture painted -  of the annual summer holiday and "fortnight industry shutdown" being anything to do with the band contest is I'm afraid, an outsider's perspective.
 
The contest was run each year in the bleakest of Novembers  (And two or three times as early as late October!) It had nothing to do with Summer holidays - I participated from 1967 until it finished.
 
But still enjoyed the overall picture. 
 
 
Keith Wardle
Edwinstowe

4BR Reply:
Thanks Keith. We tried to portray a general overview of the social context of the Miners and the industry rather than just about the old CISWO Contest. Glad you liked though. 

The decline of the mining industry

Many thanks for the excellent article on the decline of the mineworking industry - it was nice to see Iwan Fox look at the industry as a whole and not just through the eyes of a bandsman. 

However, he did fail to point out that in terms of numbers, it was the 20 year period prior to the 1984 strike that saw the greatest number of pits close - a period when Labour were in power for the majority of the time. The 1984 strike horribly accelerated a process and policy that had been going on for some time before Mrs Thatcher struck the final nails in the coffin of the industry.

Mike Hughes
Cardiff

Just a little comment the mail about "Irish Eyes Not Smiling"
 
I do agree that the scene in "the North" was much better in bygone days and I was privileged to be a part of this, but it is sad to reflect and admit that I am part of the problem of players who now struggle to see a future direction in a scene which is now dominated by individuals who are as destructive in criticism of other bands as they are constructive in their own.
 
You only have to see the damage that contesting has done to bands in Belfast with the back-biting etc that has gone on and the result being that the bands in Belfast now live on fallouts between themselves to create "superbands" he he he.
 
Although I personally have not really had any contact with the country bands it is intriging to see how the bands such as Armagh Old Boys have done so well in maintaining and attracting new players. I know that they would agree that they are not "Black Dyke", but is being competitively the best, what we all strive for. Surely most of us just want some time out from our jobs with like minded people.
 
The lifeblood of it all IMHO is youth. I like many others have had my day and am man enough to admit it!!! But look at the bands who are successful in numbers and they are usually dominated by the gallant efforts of one or two persons, be that the conductor or a member. This to me makes the band. I have often praised the efforts of 3rd Carrick Band but how have they succeeded, ONE MAN. Comber are doing well and now have a good team in their conductors. Good luck to them. Several others are making efforts and to all of them I wish them future sucess.
 
But what about the bands that struggle. Where are their learners classes?? What are the members doing about it? Are they just happy to poach?
 
Please use this mail not as criticism, but an opportunity to hold frank debate about the future of banding in this country, as although I am probably now one of the long departed from the scene if I make my thoughts known, then perhaps some of you might also.
 
Paul Hamilton  

Return of a Scottish legend

It has been reported that last weekend, Scottish Cornet Legend James Smith entered the slow melody contest at the Fife Solo and Ensemble contest and came 2nd out a field of 13. This success was in addition to entering the Dalkeith and Monktonhall Solo and Ensemble contest last year, where adjudicator David Horsfield placed James first in both the Slow Melody and Air Varie contests.
 
James Smith has been Scottish Solo Champion no less than 7 times, winning his first title at the tender age of 16. After years of leaving his cornet in the loft, he had taken the first steps last year to start practicing again, and with entering 2 contests in last 6 months for "a bit of fun", it seems apparent he has not lost his winning ways.

Its great news for the banding world to see the potential return of one of Scotlands greatest ever cornet players, and as well as taking first steps to returning to playing again, he has also been appointed to conduct Newmilns and Galston at this years Scottish Regional Contest at Dundee's Caird Hall in March.
 
Stuart Macaulay

BAYV tip for the classics

I am a collector of recordings of the Nationals test pieces from 1945 to the early 70's, and I have a great idea for a cd by BAYV as a finale in the Classics series. I can't locate any recordings of four tests, and it would be great to hear them.
 
They are: Overture for an Epic Occasion (1945), Festival Music(1956), Variations for Brass Band (1957), and Variations on the Shining River (1958)
 
Come on BAYV!!
 
Eric Vine

4BR Reply:
We understand that the Classics series has now finished Eric, but there may be another slightly different series coming very soon, so do not despair.

Help with Brassed Off

The Ecclesfield School drama production is on its way and this year our students are performing their version of 'Brassed Off!'

I have been informed about the Whit Friday March Contests and feel this is a great oppertunity for our cast to get a real feel about what they are about to perform. Is there any other information you could give me about this? If so it would be great our performance will be showing in the Crucible Theatre in June.
 
Miss Lindley
Ecclesfield School
jodieraelindley@aol.co.uk

4BR Reply:
Anyone help Miss Lindley and her budding stars?

Webster ahead of Marshall?
 
Being a cornet player myself and more important a Black Dyke man, can I honestly say that I am a little surprised that Roger Webster has been chosen above Richard Marshall in the 4BR Band of the Year.
 
Both are extremely fine musicians and brilliant cornet players but I would have them the other way round.
 
We have heard Roger Webster out here in the land of Oz and even with Rogers tour to Oz a little while ago he was unimpressive and too clinical at times. But I suppose it is personal choice.
 
But both these cornetists are brilliant cornetists in their own right.
 
John Harmer (Cornet)
Gosford Salvation Army Band 

What about those other players then?

I agree with John Lincoln's letter. There are several top class players who never get a mention on 4BR, let alone get into the 4BR Band of the Year.

But most of them have a very well paid job, a very happy family life, are not travelling 200 miles to a practice and make more money from freelancing than the superstars that keep cropping up on the website.

The best way is to register with a lower section band and guest with all the others; no pressure, no divorce, pick your jobs, and just sit back and enjoy your banding  

Stuart Haigh
Barnsley

St Keverne - 3,500 in the wrong place

St Keverne band turns up in the downundeer rankings as a NZ band.

155:   St. Keverne   (NZ)   - 4.30    

Aren't they in Cornwall??

Sergio Marshall

4BR Reply:
They are indeed and we will try our best to get rid of the geographical glitch.

Irish eyes not smiling?

I really enjoy your website and am particularly pleased to see such headlines as 'Butlins Contest - record entries'.

I may be wrong, but having lived in London for a few months in 2005 (and played with several bands there), it seems that banding is in a very healthy state on the mainland.

However, I feel it is a very different story here in Northern Ireland. In 1990, there were about 11 bands in the Chamionship Section here. Last October's National Finals in Belfast attracted just four. The worst affected area appears to be Belfast with several championship bands amalgamating or folding up completely. I am relatively young, but what I've heard from older members of my band about bygone contest years suggests an ominous downward trend.

There are of course positives too - a long dead entertainment contest in County Tyrone has been resurrected for February 2007 and bands like Armagh Old Boys have been very positive in encouraging youth and building bridges with English bands like Fodens. Likewise, my band has, in the last two years, created a 'B' band that has brought many new young players and boosted the total membership to nearly 45. But, the situation has not been helped by the loss of many good young players to music/brass band university courses in England and Wales.

And it's not just the young - I know of at least three families who have moved to England specifically to further their banding experiences.

I suppose I am just looking for some reassurance that I am over-reacting, or that this is just a phase or something that is inevitable with the size of our population (eg like Irish League Football!). However, it would be nice to hear of any suggestions or thoughts as to how some of these trends might be addressed to ensure that Northern Ireland's brass band scene, particularly the youth side, continues to develop like those I see on your website.

Boris Pinto
Belfast

Are we good enough?

As always it was nice to see your selection for the 4BR Band of the Year, but why does it have to be just players in the Championship Section?

Having heard a number of lower section contests this year I am sure there were at least a handful of players more than worthy to make it into your band. Aren't lower section players good enough?

John Lincoln

Plenty of laughs

Many thank lads for providing my wife and me with plenty of laughs with your ‘School Reports' of the top 25 bands.

You were just about spot on with every pupil in the 4BR School even though we thought that some of their parents would possibly be a bit peeved with the efforts of some of their offspring! Keep it up.

Peter Hughes
Chester

What a bass end

Hi. I've not heard all of the players you've named, but being a bass player I've got to say you are just about right with this selection. Phil Johnston (BB) I've not heard however I remember comments about him on the site, but the others, Messrs Cook, Crowther & Morley I have.

Joe Cook did a training session in Rossendale of which I was fortunate enough to be a part, I've heard the Grimey contingent separately and in the band and what an awesome combination they are. I think Grimey played 7th at the 2006 regionals and I heard a part in "Journey" that I'd not heard before, perhaps halfway through the piece.

I can only say it sounded like an express train coming through the back of the stage! I looked at my colleagues and the hair on their necks was standing up! Needless to say I heard it in other bands from then on, but no-one brought it off like Shaun & Deano! What a sound! From the depths of the band, a truly giant display.

My band is fortunate to be playing with Grimey in July this year. What a privilege to share the stage with them!  What would a band made up of players like this sound like? But teamwork is paramount at any level, especially here.

Your site is a fund of info. Keep it up.

D. Walsh 

We do like to be beside the seaside

Welcome 2007! Planning a UK seaside break or day trip this year?

I've just received my season's programme for Eastbourne Seafront Bandstand (June - September). Get yours from bandstand@eastbourne.gov.uk.

Among numerous other forms of entertainment, it lists no less than 78 band concerts - 39 brass, 39 wind bands - with one or two dates apparently not yet allocated. Prior to all these concerts, for a spring break note that National Champions Grimethorpe play an afternoon one at the town's Congress Theatre on Sunday 29 April.

Can any other resort or town come near this presentation for band music lovers?

(N.B. My personal connection with Eastbourne Borough Council is only as voter, taxpayer - and occasional critic.)

Len Atter

4BR from around the world

I read 4barsrest regularly with interest and in general I have to say the site is excellent, but I do have a bone or two to pick I'm afraid.

Colin Harris makes a good point about the amount of minor news stories that appear on the site, but I would go further and ask why so many news features are those about Australian, New Zealand and US banding? I understand that your aim is to make this an international site, but I am sure I am not the only one who gets irritated by the amount of irrelevant news about banding the other side of the world.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against these good people across the ocean, but details of a concert being put on in Auckland, or a summer course in Queensland is frankly of no interest to me whatsoever. Likewise I'm sure people who live in these countries would say the same about news about UK bands.

Would it not be better to have a separate section on the site, or a different site altogether for other countries?

This also ties in with my next point about the 4barsrest band of the year. I don't think it is fair to include players from outside the UK in the band, as they are not playing on the same playing field as players in the UK (other than at the Europeans). Again this is not to take anything away from players in other countries (there are undoubtedly world class performers playing in bands outside the UK), but I cannot believe that 4barsrest have scouts in every country who get to hear these players week in, week out and so therefore are in a position to objectively decide who should be in the band of the year.

How do you know, for instance, that there is not an outstanding cornet player plying his or her trade in Russia, South Africa or Canada who deserves to be in the band? Surely it is better to focus solely on UK bands.

I must say it is good to see Philip Cobb in the band of the year, however, after his fine achievements over the past year. This does raise the question, though, why other Salvationist musicians haven't made it into band of the year over the past few years.

David Daws and Derick Kane, to name but two, have been performing to a consistently high level for more years than they would care to remember, but yet they have not got into band of the year yet. Both have recently released solo albums as well. Again this is to take nothing away from those who did make it into the band of the year.

Sorry for the rant and rave - just wanted to get it off my chest!

Glynn Edwards
London

4BR Reply:
Thanks Glyn, but the right hand side of the site does give you the opportunity to filter the news to cover just the UK.

The King effect
 
I must endorse everything Mark Condron says in a previous letter regarding David King.

I, like Mark was a member of Swinton Concert Brass, but alas defected before the dizzy heights of National Championship wins and British Open wins (although my mother remained as secretary).

Since leaving Swinton all those years ago I have carried with me much knowledge and advice given to me in Band rehearsals by Dave King. Many times whilst playing under other conductors I have remembered things he told me and realised how right he was.
I always remember the first time he came down to Swinton Concert as we were rehearsing the final movement of ‘Suite Gothique' with Martin Obermuller. Fine conductor Martin was (you owe me that fiver now Martin!) but we couldn't quite get to grips with it. Dave came in and an hour later we were playing it superbly.He was an inspiration! I was amazed.  He became our new conductor when Martin had to leave us and how lucky we were.

I have always felt proud to have played under Mr King, albeit in the 4th and 3rd section. He was an inspiration to a young girl who was just mastering the fine art of Baritone playing!

As Mark says, it is easy to just think of the wonderful work he did with YBS but there was more. I played under him when he was just starting out…….and he was every bit as superb then as well.

Thanks Mr King!   All the best in whatever you choose to do in the future.

Heather Smyth

The Bedworth/Enderby riddle

In response to the remarks from Steve Holmes - Yes it's true Bedworth have beaten Enderby at both the Leicester and Leamington contests, but this has been competing in the 1st section where I assume less points are awarded to the placed bands in comparison to the Championship section for example.

At both of those contests Enderby also competed in the Open section, where strangely we have performed better and got the results (unlike in the 1st section!).  So I assume we have been awarded a greater number of points for that reason alone.

Enderby have competed at the Buxton (again in the Open section) and Wychavon Contest as well this year, which may have contributed.

Hope this helps.

Antony Szafranek
Enderby Band

What ever happened to Mr Smith?
 
I am new to this but I would like to ask what happened to Mr Sandy Smith from Gimethorpe? - I met him twice on a summer school course and he was lovely man.

Does he still play the horn or has he decided to write more music?   Can anyone shed any light on this - it would be a shame if such talent went away from the brass band world.

Caitlin Scot
(aged 19 and love music - especially Mr Smiths)

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