Comments ~ 2005: November (Part 2: 21st November onwards)

The last set of comments for November.

Any sign of Mitzi?

I wonder if any of your readers know of the whereabouts of Brian (Mitzi ) Wilkinson ex CWS Manchester Band in the 1950's.

I was on a flight from UK to Spain where I am now based, and by pure coincidence Brians daughter was sat next to me. As I had not seen Brian for 30 years or so I asked her to get Brian to e mail me via her PC. Unfortunately my PC crashed and though I believe he mailed me ...I didn't receive it.I woud really like to contact him as we were usually billeted together when on tour with the band and became very good friends. Hope your readers can help.

Gordon Higginbottom
EX CWS, James Shepherd Versatile Brass etc

The recipe for success

Having read your retrospective and supporting features on brass in concert I would like to put forward the 4barsrest recipe for success at entertainment contests:

No slapstick, don't dumb down, nothing brash or over bold, slinky black dresses and stripes on trousers please, no bumble bees or beer humour, no firemans helmets or french maitre de outfits when playing liberty bell, no prancing percussionists and no leiderhosen, be afraid of electronics, - just play a sophisticated and uncompromising choice of music.Sorted, except that my gran really liked all of the above and had a thoroughly enjoyable day out!

Steve Hopwood

From the playing to the postcard - a great day out

For the first time in a long while, I must agree with Mr Fox and his observations on Brass In Concert.

Great venue, good faciliteies and excellent use of  technology, whilst the humour (or lack of it) is now a cause for concern for most of the bands. Some radical re thinking is needed in certain quarters (and please shoot the bumble bee) whilst it was noticable this year that the soloists nearly all opted for some sort of slow melody.

Are the virtuoso players all gone? Great article on the dress sense of the MD's - some must be dressed by Stevie Wonder and the Postcard gave me just enough information to ensure to stay clear of down town Newcastle next year!As for the toilets being black and white. As someone next to me said - It is the only way someone from Sunderland can pee on Newcastle without getting into trouble!

Peter Cairns

Great contest - just a few queries though...

Well done to everyone at Brass in Concert at the weekend – it was a huge improvement on Spennymoor and it looks like the contest now has a great future ahead.

The venue was brilliant and the big screen television coverage was great.Just a couple of points though in observation. Can we have a better Gala Concert next year. I appreciate that both bands were taking part in the contest the next day, but I am sure I was not alone in being a bit short changed by the programmes they played – especially Reg Vardy. Alan Morrison is a great player, but even great players need to spend time in rehearsal with their accompanying bands. There was a sense that not much joint work had been done on the Ernest Tomlinson Concerto.

Also – What happened to the BAYV Band at the results and why didn't they have a representative on stage. If they had won it was have been immensely embarrassing for the organisers to have had to give out the prizes and the prize money to their own daughter! That was not very professional and should not be allowed to happen again.

Jonathan Roberts

Subjective entertainment - meat or poison?

Having just returned from the Brass in Concert Championship, I read Mr. Hill's comments (What is entertainment then?) with great interest.

With respect, I think he is missing the point in that entertainment is totally subjective. What's one mans' meat is another mans' poison. I personally did not find the idea of a Bumble-Bee running around the stage entertaining, embarrassing yes; nor did watching percussion members dancing around the stage do it for me either. Is that the kind of entertainment he was looking for?

I too have played in bands for many years and have played at the Brass in Concert Championships on several occasions. Because I now live abroad, I have not been at the contest for over 10 years and in my opinion, the range and variety of music played 10 years ago was no different to that which I heard this year.

There was serious and lighthearted music on offer and I feel the balance was just about right. I was neither bored nor frustrated. Should The Reg Vardy Band for instance have been punished in the points entertainment wise for playing a serious programme in a serious venue?

In my opinion no and hats off to Ray Farr and the band for their concept and exceptional quality of playing! Furthermore, my 22 year old son who has never been to a Brass Band Contest apart from when he was in his pram; was with me. He would definitely be according to Mr. Hill's definition an 'outside' of banding person. He sat through every performance, never missed a note and was thoroughly delighted with the whole days proceedings. So much so that he booked tickets to go and see Brighouse in two weeks time when they are once again performing at The Sage.

This is a serious contest for serious bands. Think of the impact that the likes of Ray Farr, Howard Snell and Sandy Smith have made in their creative composing for the bands in contests of this nature. We need to be promoting this and not stifling their creativity by asking for slap-stick gestures in the name of entertainment.

Andy Holmes
Oslo, Norway

Six of the best - Don't forget Mr Cutt!

Not wanting to put a damp squid on the Spennymoor result - but Garry Cutt also has won it 6 times - 93/94/99 and 001/02/03- having said that I am sure Howard Snell must have notched up a few!!

Also-  these guys don't sound so great on their own - it takes a few brass players/ percussion and arrangers too!!!!

Kath Stokes

4BR Reply:
Quite right Kath. Both Garry and Howard Snell have also notched up six wins each. We should have said that Richard was a joint record holder. Not a bad effort though! 

Whinging for the sake of it!

Some people are never satisfied. I was at Gateshead on Sunday along with my wife and my brother and his wife. We all sat through every piece of music from each and every performance.

OK - you cannot please everyone all of the time, but some people surely 'Whinge' just for the sake of it? It was a great day and all the bands must have put many hours of hard work in for their big day. From the four of us well done to everyone.

Barry Radford

The Wilkinson debate continues...

In response to Mr. Cataghs comments earlier I would like to add that if the adjudicator listened to the audience and how loud they clapped!!!

Surely this would be an unfair advantage to those who only had a few "band groupies" in the audience supporting them and those with a coach full would be at an advantage.If the members of the audience want to become adjudicators why don't they do the course and have the experience themselves as to what it is like?

Lynn Broadbent

Disrespectful in the extreme

I found David Catagh's comments about Longridge Band - the winning band at Wilkinsons Contest Section A last Sunday - disrespectful in the extreme.

I do have a vested interest as I am one of their percussionists. Longridge Band have pulled themselves up from 20th and last place at the Senior Cup in May, 11th out of 13 at Pontins just 4 weeks ago to winning at St Helens so please give us some credit.It would appear that Mr Catagh mis-heard what the audience was saying just as much as he mis-heard what the adjudicator Gareth Pritchard actually said.

His words were: "What a pity I couldn't talk to the bands 2 or 3 weeks ago, or even 2 or 3 months ago to tell them to make sure they choose a piece they can play and play well". Nothing about "pleasing to the audiences ear" - when did that ever come into the equation in a contest?

As for your choice of the first 3 compared to the final result, I guess that says it all! Several weeks ago 4BR published details of various adjudicators courses available. Recent letters to 4BR plead for new adjudicators so if Mr Catagh thinks he can do a better job than the ones we have now, I suggest he enrolls and passes the exams - but I doubt it. Best to stay safe as an armchair critic.

Roger Lincoln

Get percussionists to press the button?

In response to Mr Lincoln if this were a professional orchestra it would certainly be the percussion section  (not the timpanist) who would press the button on the CD player.

Given that brass bands do not distinguish between timpani and percussion I feel it would be appropriate for the timpanist to perform this task. On the question of the Latin chanting I would be grateful if the composer could indicate whether we should be using church or classical pronunciation and if the organisers would indicate if adjudicators will be advised to deduct points on that basis. I would not like to see this become another "turn" debacle as we had with last years piece!

J. Corrigan

The problems with swingers

The first problem to deal with when trying to get a band to "swing" has to be the quality of the arrangements!

It's not just MD's who need to get down to HMV and listen - arrangers are in need of help too!Of course, there are exceptions to this - Bill Geldard & Mark Freeh spring to mind - but no surprise there as both have a background in the genre. Redbridge Brass came close a few years ago with "Close Enough for Jazz".

Andy Wooler
Hove

The question of swinging the right way

Your points are valid, but notation is confusing for banders! (Ref: November editorial re: Swing)

Some of you might know I do a little arranging/transcribing myself on occasion, and I've done some Miller for quintet, I always like to get it as close as possible to the original. But, if you are not scoring for pro's one has to make the odd sacrifice in the line sometimes.

Take one publication that recently passed my eyes of Glen Miller tunes from De Hasske. I think all of us can admit to the first time we ever tried to swing, it was to Glen Miller, but, if we don't even notate Miller correctly the young one's will be committed to divers boots forever!

Now's the time for a moan to those who arrange jazz notation badly and in a confusing fashion for brass band. When arrangers notate jazz for none-jazzers they really should make their minds up about the notation. Quavers with instruction to swing, or, 12/8, or, more inaccurately dotted quaver semi quaver = triplets?? ERm, don't think so!

E.G. in this publication we start with "In The Mood" all straight quavers, but no indication to swing (that's ok), I guess Lorenzo (the arr) has worked out that the world and his dog know this tune so well they'll switch on auto-swing, fine. Some 41 bars later hitting Pennsylvania 6-5000 he uses dotted rhythms (dotted quaver-semi quaver) which is bonkers, and the same for Moonlight Serenade at bar 73 and yet some bars later we have ordinary quavers which might, or not be, swung (but are they)?

Much later (after American Patrol, in straight semis, by the way?) we get to "Little brown Jug" at 175. Again, ordinary quavers are employed here with no direction to swing. So we have a complete conflict here of, we expect you to be able to swing with straight notation and no instruction, and, we then re-notate incorrectly because we don't expect you to be able to swing without instruction either, period as you might not know this tune! Confused, Peterborough?

The arr. ends with "In The Mood" reprise. I was privileged to be the first person to hear Philip Wilby's "Jazz" (as I produced the recording for the panel), and then, there were ambiguities as to what might, or might not be swung, as one can have unswung quavers in jazz, and even swung against unswung! So, arrangers out there who are about to pen a standard for brass bands out there.

Just give it to us straight (I mean swung), I mean the notation, as it should be, and give the right direction of swing at the start, heavy, light, pop-swing, and even put some phrasing in that might help the line. But don't give us bloody dotted quaver, semi quaver rhythms! OK?

Phil Lawrence

Remembering the best doubler

Interesting to read Jack French's comments on 'doubling up' and his reference to Albert Robinson who conducted Holme Silver, often with baton in right hand and cornet in left hand.

I was a member of the band in the 1960's, being an aspiring 3rd cornet player, and can vividly remember Albert conducting and playing all the tutti parts on contests in and around Yorkshire and Lancashire during this period. I believe that this was normal practice in the 'old days' and Albert was one of the last conductors to continue the tradition.

David Hirst 

What is entertainment then?

I always thought (perhaps naively) that the idea of an entertainment contest was that the music was supposed to entertain the audience. 

However, having sat through today's Brass in Concert Championship it seems to me that the musical directors of many of the bands have a very different definition of the word 'entertainment' to some of those in the audience. I have played in bands for many years and love brass band music, but many of the choices of piece today were not in the least bit entertaining. 

There were far too many pieces that were too long, and whilst technically challenging, they did not make for easy or enjoyable listening; many of them smacked of test pieces.  Test pieces have their place, but that place is not in entertainment contests. As a movement we complain that we are having trouble attracting new blood, and that people 'outside' banding do not come and listen to us play.  Is it any wonder when we subject them to pieces such as those on show today? 

As a bandsman I was bored and frustrated; goodness only knows what someone attending their first brass band event would have thought! There were some bands today whose programs were entertaining and a pleasure to listen to.  Sadly they were in the minority.  Is that not the point of an entertainment contest or have I missed something?

S. Hill

Thingies and Brass in Concert thingies

I liked your reply (Alec Gallaher comment) and I'm glad that you mentioned the wind and thingie.

All my suggestions came from my experience with XBY Concert Band in Kerkrade this Summer. It is indeed an enlightened musical world on the other side of the fence. Just back from a very enjoyable trip to Newcastle to see Brass in Concert. Just a few comments before I go to bed:Fantastic venueLoved the big screen and little musical interludes.

Please, no more Liberty BellWhy dress up some poor sod in a bumble-bee outfit and make them run around the stage? IT IS NOT FUNNY. No really. Only my boots prevented my toes from curling upwards. It did curdle my mates hair though.

Nigel Brinklow

Mr Adjudicator - please listen to the audience

Mr Adjudicator (Ref: Wilkinson Contest this weekend) : Could I respectfully suggest that you 'take your Banding Fix' from the Concert stage in future.

To stand up and proudly announce, '' What a pity I couldn't speak to bands 2 or 3 weeks ago...'' to ensure we play something pleasing to the audience's ear, was rather backward in thinking. We've moved on from the 1960's style of Test Piece (thank god!! ).

We now play exercises to test bands more advanced skills. Let's face it, 90% of the audience is made up of Bands Persons (Bandsmen in your day) who appreciate the modern compositions. I'm not a member of any of the competing bands and therefore have no personal axe to grind - I had Marsden, Wire Brass and Haydock in my first three. Audience comments appeared to confirm this (with Pemberton as dark horses ).

No disrespect to the winners on the day but audience opinion is usually not to far off.

David Catagh

How to find those hidden bonus tracks

In response to Christy Smith's comments regarding the bonus track to which I referred in my Brass Band World review of 'Tales and Stories', by Eikanger-Bjorsvik Band, you don't have to do anything to access this other than leave the CD running after the finish of the final track. 

The bonus track will then (eventually) play automatically. Incidentally, there is also a bonus track at the end of the David Childs solo CD, 'Welsh Connection' - watch out for a review in a future issue of Brass Band World!

Anthony Leggett
Ferndown Dorset

Whingers!
 
Whinger? ha!  But is not the whole point of the comments forum on this site for people to air their views? Why keep it in the bandroom?

I'm sorry H. Smyth but I think you have completely missed my point, which really is that the brass band movement has not changed in the 20 years I have been away from contesting, which I find disappointing. I wonder how many players have packed in playing, and indeed bands folded due to perceived injustices over the years  - I think Keith Wardle may have a valid point about the choice of test pieces for today's bands, perhaps we need a different approach when selecting music for contests. Any ideas? 
 
Dave Thomas 

Can anyone help us into Europe?

Our band is looking for some assistance to help us plan a band trip to Europe next year.

In 2004 we went to the Prague festival in September and this year organised our own trip to Cologne in August. We found it very difficult to organise the Cologne trip concerts as we had planned it ourselves. The festival in Prague was easier as they booked the concerts for us.
 
What we were hoping for was a few suggestions of festivals around Europe which you may know of, to help us find somewhere for next year. ( jamieb7@tiscali.co.uk )
 
Sue Butterworth
Wardle and District Anderson Brass

4BR Reply:
If anyone can help, please get in contact with Sue direct on her e-mail address 

What about the CD player (or performer) at the Centre of the Earth

Referring to the recent correspondence regarding who can play, or not play certain instruments in the band at a contest, what do the rules say about who switches on the CD player in 'Journey to the Centre of the Earth' at the 2006 Championship section regional finals?

It's scored on the timpanist's part but is a CD player an 'instrument'? I doubt it. Is there any reason why any member of the band can't switch it on as it is neither 'brass' nor 'percussion'? Will the astute adjudicator with the X-ray eyes spot it I wonder and mark the band down if the timpanist doesn't actually do it? Whatever next?

Roger Lincoln 

Longridge put the record straight

Longridge Band would like to point out that our conductor at the Wilkinson Northern open was not Stephen Booth as printed in the programme notes and on our web site.

Mr Booth and the band parted company back in June this year and we are still looking for the right person to take our band through to the area competition in March. We have experienced a few technical difficulties with our web site that we are working to resolve and will change the details on there as soon as the gremlins have been sorted out. We would like to apologise to Mr Booth for any embarrassment this may have caused him.

The conductor for our winning performance on Sunday was in fact Mike Cotter. Mike has been a good friend of the band for many years and stepped in at the last minute to take us to the contest. We would like to thank Mike for his sterling efforts, solid support and great good humour during the week preceding the contest and are delighted that his faith in the band was rewarded with a win.
 
Roman Galaska 

Kenny Ball - the right age

Further to the latest comments page, according to his web site Kenny Ball was born on 22nd May 1930 which makes him 75 not 82.

Having said that he and his Jazzmen played on the Saturday evening of the Pontins Contest last month and he certainly looks 15 years younger. Not as great as they were but still very good entertainers.

Roger Lincoln 

Well done Peggy!

I'd like to publicly thank Peggy Tomlinson, the Yorkshire and Humberside Brass Band Association and particularly Grimethorpe Band for another wonderful brass workshop this year.

132 brass players and percussionists came together for a day of learning, socialising and making good music under the ever-amusing baton of Richard Evans and the tutilage of all the key players from Grimethorpe Band.

The pieces we worked on during the day included Gregson's 'Variations on Laudate Dominum', Langford's 'Sinfonietta', Redhead's 'Reflections in Nature', Sparke's 'Music for a Festival' and a couple of others which together gave a wide spread of techniques to brush up on and a program which had something in it for players of every calibre.

It was heartening to see how many of the delegates were young people. The event, of course, brought together again old friends and acquaintances from as far apart as North Yorkshire and Norwich and it
was unfortunate that the sheer limitations of the venue meant that potential bookings from groups from at least 3 bands had to be turned down this year.

Hopefully the suggestion that two similar days be held next year may have been taken on board but I suppose that, as people have so much fun, they'd probably want to book for both days anyway! Once again, many thanks to all concerned.

Ian W. Wright
Solo Eb Bass with Oughtibridge Band (and, temporarily at least, with Chapeltown Band ) 

Doubling up - 1960's style

I have read with interest the comments on band members "doubling up" and can recall in the 60s a most unusual sight on the contest stage.

Mr Albert Robinson conductor of the Holme Silver Band from Huddersfield West Yorkshire would quite often be seen wielding baton in one hand whilst playing cornet in the other.

I wonder if the rule makers of today have declared that practice unallowable.

Jack F French 

Leyland laid to rest?

I heard recently that it was reported on BBC news 24 that Leyland was folding, because of lack of funding. Is there any truth in this, or is it just a case of bad Chinese whispers?
 
Rob Morton

4BR Reply:
Can't believe the BBC of all people would have said that Rob. Nothing we think could be further from the truth after London. 

One from the old Stomper himself!!

Cracking article about Pontins, Bavarian Stompers now in 35th year. Very funny review - bloody hard work keeping you brass banders in check.

Its probably our fault that there are so many brass band offshoot oompah bands around. You didn`t mention Kenny Ball. Cheers and probably see you next year (if I can get my zimmer frame in the van.)
Obergruppenfuhrer Frank Chislett

4BR Reply:
Thanks Frank. By the way, Kenny Ball is 82 yeas of age and still has hair like a raven's wing! Must be something he drinks.... 

Poor arrangements for Swingers

I agree with the comment that in general bands find it hard to "swing". But it may not be our entire fault. First some arrangements are quite frankly not very good.

People who arrange for jazz big and swing bands know what they're doing, because it's a particular field. I guess that you're average brass band arranger just might not cut it. But one other problem is I think a good big band has the pulse of its rhythm section behind it. Yes there are some good kit players around in bands but I don't think that four tubas can ever realistically stand in for one string bass, which is far more capable of handling the bass lines required anyway.

Being a brass player and a (albeit amateur) bass guitarist I know this to be true.  When spiritual to the bone made there recordings they didn't use an SA band as backing, as you might imagine with them all being Salvationists themselves. No they used a real rhythm section and the results speak for themselves.
 
True cornets and troms in bands should perhaps make a better fist of it than many do but I think it may just be one of those fundamental laws of banding that we simply aren't built to swing. And having seen the size of you're average bass section is it any wonder. Oh and just to add I wouldn't really like to hear the BBC Big Band playing ‘Resurgam' either, but you never know.
 
Mark Sellers
Glasgow

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