Comments ~ 2005: November

All the comments up to the 21st November.

The musical Waltons perhaps?

The Laycock household had cause for celebration at Pontins on Sunday with Dad, George (coordinator with Wire Brass), daughter Alison, (1st Horn Wire), wife and mother Sylvia, (2nd Cornet United Co-op 2000) and son Richard (Soprano Cornet United Co-op 2000) when they achieved 1st & 2nd places in the second section competition. 

It's not everyday a family can celebrate such outstanding results whilst performing with different bands, it brings a conclusion to the friendly family debate about who would be best in a straight fight, point proved but both well deserved.

George Laycock

4BR Reply:
What a family – latter day Mortimers. It would take some extended family to beat that George – the Waltons perhaps? 

A nice big thnak you to the judges

On the behalf of Hawk Green (Marple) Band I would like to thank Mr Roy Sparks and Mr Brian Buckley for placing the Band 6th in the 2nd section at Pontins.

The Band was very pleased with the result beating many good Bands on the day. Hawk Green (Marple) have some very talented young players ranging from 13 to16 years old, sat on solo seats so this result has given them much needed encouragement.
 
Mark Singleton
Solo Trombone 

Dodgy percussionists!

Whether this is allowed or not it should not have been accepted. On Sunday in the Second Section one of the bands that played their 3rd cornet player stood up out of his seat half way through the piece and played percussion...then sat back down and played cornet???

Unbelievable!! If the band doesn't have the player to play the part they should borrow a player if allowed or leave the part out like the rest of the bands did.

Is this allowed??????? It shouldn't be if it is!!!

Dean Shaw

4BR Reply:
We are not totally 100% certain Dean, but we think it is. Brass players cannot play another brass instrument on stage, and a percussionist cannot play a brass instrument either, but a brass player can we understand play a percussion part! Strange but true! 

Now we know...

I'm a player from Trentham Band and noticed on your website that you said that you didn't have much research on the band!! This is because this is the new name of the band due to recent sponsorship from Trentham Leisure!

The conductor is Mike Caveney who is well known in the Salford University realms. The band was originally called Stoke-on-Trent brass band (before that Royal Doulton!) That might help because the band history is quite interesting. There was recently an article about us in the Bandsman!

It's a fairly young band just now (our youngest player is 6+1/2) but there older ones guiding them in the right direction!!

Miss Rachael Calvert

4BR Reply:
Now we all know!

Sovereign have been crowned three times!

Re. Past Winners – Sovereign Brass are now Woolley Pritchard Sovereign Brass – I believe they won the Championship Section in 1996, giving them 3 wins overall.

Gary Jones

4BR Reply:
Sorry Gary – You are quite right: The band won the 4th Section in 1989, the Third in 1990 and then the Championship in 1996 – some record that.  

A pretty good Jack of All Trades!

In response to a little quib from Mr R. Harvey. If you don't want to listen to what is on stage, go and buy a sandwich, coffee or what ever takes your fancy.

Judging by the response of the audience Mr Williams managed to enthrall many present, and I can assure you that having been privileged enough to work with him on several occasions now, that he is not only a superb Euph player, but a pretty damn good jack of all trades.

Maybe the programme should have included another difficult test piece, or maybe that a little ‘wallpaper' music was just what was required for a bit of fun before the results. Maybe he just didn't adhere to whatever high standards that you would set. If so, then I'm sure that many of us would like you to share your expertise to help us all improve!

Andy Austin   

True quiet playing - the Welsh way

I read with interest the article on this subject, and whilst I accept to some degree what you say, I would suggest that the band with which I am connected, the Buy as You View Band, has on many occasions given an object lesson in the art of pianissimo playing.
 
Any band can play a ff, or even a fff, but to hear a band such as mine play a true pianissimo is a joy.   Doctor Robert Childs has made this an art form, and has always demanded a high degree of musicality from the band, which includes playing at levels that on occasion, needs the listener to strain his ears in order to capture the moment.
 
Selwyn Protheroe 

Who chooses the test pieces and do they know what they are doing?

Having listened to the CD and looked through the score for ‘Images of the Millennium' I would say this piece will provide a far more difficult challenge than the 2005 Finals testpiece, ‘Belmont Variations', did - and Phil McCann thought that this piece had proved to difficult for the bands on the day.
 
Do the people that select the testpieces, and in fact decide at what section a piece should be graded, ever go to bandrooms to find out what standard is being achieved in the different sections?
 
Paul Smith     

No radio listings?

Why has the listings for GMR Brass not changed for over a month?

Anthony Longden

4BR Reply:
Because the producers haven't sent them to us that why Anthony. 

London pleasures

My husband Graham and I had the pleasure of being in the Albert Hall and we heard all but the first 4 bands. We both thought the piece 'Eden' was quite remarkable.

My last visit to the Nationals was in 1988. Whilst I am a player (a very poor one at that) and my husband only knows what he likes, we both enjoyed a fantastic day of music making. Like a lot of other people we did not totally agree with the placings, but we were not there to adjudicate - the three men in the box were.
It was a great pity about the booing that could be heard when some of the results were given out - that really 'rattles my cage'. The people responsible should be ashamed. Another thing that 'rattles my cage' is when a lesser band is due on stage there is a mass exodus from the hall, Why? Every band taking part has the right to be heard and applauded.

The comment will be made ' well we have to go out sometime for a comfort break'. Well it is possible to 'nip' out in between bands and there was a beak after band number 10. Perhaps we are a bit too nosey not wanting to miss anything, but we also like to have our monies worth, and we certainly got it and more besides.

The interlude before the results with Glyn Williams playing all the different instruments was a treat and the gentleman who has written that he is man of many talents but master of none should sit quiet unless he could get up and do it better. To stand on that stage, in fact any stage, and perform live in front of several thousand people must be commended. Well done Glyn we thought you were marvelous.

We also attended the evening concert and enjoyed the whole lot. It was great to be at a band concert and hear the very finest musicians and also have a laugh, Monozil brass were excellent in every way, and what stamina and memory they had. Being true Yorkshire folk it was also good to see the folk from the Royal Armouries. That also made a refreshing change and really showed off our heritage.

Once again well done to all who took part, before closing a special mention should be given to all the percussionists. You were given a great task in that piece and being the mum and dad of a young percussionist we can only hope that he can aspire to being as good as  you all were. We send you all our admiration.

Kathleen Harrison
Brighouse 

Looking for the stats on the music

I`m wondering if you know where I can find out which piece each band plays in your National Championship or British Open and so on.

Are there any kind of list for resent years?

Asbjørn Hauge
Tertnes amatør Brass band.
Norway

4BR Reply:
Just go to the Results Archive click on the years you want and it should be all there.
 

Well done Tim

I was interested to read that the long and successful partnership between Tim Oldroyd and Langbaurgh has ended. Somewhere back in the mists of time when Kevin Bolton and I were working together at (the now defunct) BSC Teesside Band, Tim was frequently called upon to help out – he was a super flugel player, but clearly had more to give.
 
It has been a joy to see him develop as a conductor with Langbaurgh, in fact it was almost a joy to be beaten by him and his team at the National Finals in Torquay.
 
Whatever he does next, and wherever he moves, I guess that I am only one of many who will wish him well.
 
John Morahan
Capital Concert Brass
London

Finding that little piggy

"That'll Do" can be found on the Babe: Pig in the City soundtrack album. Available at Amazon:

Les Wood

This track is on the Soundtrack Cd of Babe: Pig In The City and should be available from any record shop or Amazon etc.
 
Nigel Hall 

Bodie and Doyle at Desford?

No, I'm not talking the TV series, but this subject in 'banding' really does seem to get up people's nose's especially if you are a pro at Desford. And let's be honest, there are professionals at Desford – professional tillers, teachers, account managers etc – but not as I know too many professional brass musicians, as Mr Pearce and Britt have pointed out in previous correspondence.

As Desford seem to be the only pro band around in many peoples eyes, I wonder what the likes of Dyke, Grimethorpe, YBS, Fairey's  to name a few, think about this. After all they are not pros are they?
Banding has a very nasty habit of creating chicken and the egg situations, and as we move forward in time, bands will find that they cannot solely rely on sponsors etc and they have to adopt a similar way to Desford. After all, that's banding!

P.S Well done to all at Leyland. Brilliant!
                                                     
Mark Rennocks
Desford

Note of thanks

Mr. Fox and 4BR. Thank you for a very accurate revue of the US Open.  I don't know that I take issue with any of your viewpoints, and want to underscore the need to focus on brass playing with taste and less "blast" at the contest.  I think the US Open is at a critical point for the nature of future US contest programs, and it will be interesting to see how the journey works out. Thanks for your notes

Dave Meyer 

Technically speaking

Actually, Clare Roebuck, technically a percussion player could play a brass instrument on stage if they wanted to - see comment from Mike Norton. He points out that contest rules state that "no member of any competing band may play more than 1 instrument except percussion…". It doesn't actually state what instruments percussion can play.

But anyway, you missed my point entirely. The point I was making is that there are far too many rules in brass bands as it is. I doubt if a band would win a contest solely on the fact the a third cornet player tinged a triangle during a piece of music, so what's the point of getting so upset about it.

We should be looking at ways of relaxing the rules rather than making it even more difficult to play music. After all, isn't the whole point of being in a brass band? Making music? Sound familiar?

My proposals for the future of contests would be:
1. Open adjudication
2. Points after each performance based of defined objective criteria (known in advance)
3. Scrap the maximum number of players
4. Allow free movement of musicians between bands without "can't return to the same band within same millennia" type rules
5. Allow different instrumentation from standard brass-band set up
6. Pre-draws with allotted start times known well in advance of contests
7. Make it fun 

Nigel Brinklow  

Talking about teeth

In reply to Andy Scott's question about dental implants. About ten years ago I had an accident with a garage door spring and it knocked out three of my front teeth. Two were replaced within an hour in the local hospital, but the other one could not be saved.
 
At the time I was serving as a bandmaster in the Royal Marines, so after about a year when the two teeth had bedded back in, I was lucky enough to be put forward by my dentist to have an implant for the tooth that could not be saved. Courtesy of the good old MOD. 

And it does work...
 
The treatment took about six months in all and the implanted tooth is great. I have been playing euphonium and teaching brass full time ever since and I think it is stronger than my own teeth. I was lucky to have mine done for free, but if you can afford the time and money, my advice would be to go for it.

Dave Wilson
Euphonium
Leyland Band 

What about implants (teeth that is..)?

In response to Andy's question. I lost my 3 top front teeth and had a bridge put in which is permanently fixed to my own teeth. I have had it about 12 years with no adverse effect apart from a little air escaping through the small gap between bridge and gum. This is probably down to the gum shrinking as they do slightly with age.

A colleague of mine had implants and found them fantastic. However he had the work done by a Navy dentist and so didn't have to pay. There was the obvious initial swelling and discomfort but they soon settled down. He did however find a slight alteration in his embouchure, which causes obvious problems. I hope this helps. Try the cheaper option first.

Mick Banks 

Flapping percussionists

I have to say, the area test piece for the second section is quite a challenge. It makes a good change for most of the band to follow and mould round the perc section instead of the other way round.

I will most definitely be sat above the perc section on the day of the contest as we will see lots of percussionist ''flapping'' a little, those who know the piece will no what I mean! I should think that Frickley/South Elsmall percussion section should put a good show on as they have always seemed to have a respectable perc section also this piece suits the two guys style....  MAD!  Lets see what happens shall we and good to you all!!!

Clare Roebuck 

Pontins - the missing equation

I've read various comments about the Pontins results. Certainly in the case of the first section there is a missing piece in the equation. I think no two adjudicators or any number of pundits from 4BR would have been able to get all the bands in the right order.

Quite a few of the bands placed in the third quarter down the results were very disappointed. 26 "Lorenzi" in 2005 will not properly separate 26 first section bands. I take nothing away from the first few shining stars – they had to really stand out on such a piece to stand a chance of making it, but because a lot of first section bands will make a reasonably shaped performance of Lorenzo, it wont work in a field of 26 bands to get them all in the right order from 7th to 23rd – but on the other side of the coin, this is not an Area contest with relegation at stake, and in many other fields of human endeavour, we either get an award or we don't.
 
 Neither do I criticise the piece itself – I'd say about 15 Lorenzi in section 2 or about 10 in section 1 would get all the bands in the right order with two good judges. To get a more accurate result for mid-placed bands in a competition of 26, it takes a piece that creates more glaring mistakes – sometimes even in the winning performance.

Using the Lorenzo type of piece at 1st section level with 26 bands-  (even if the judges are confident that every relatively placed result is correct) the mid placed results become more about the adjudicators' interpretational preference of the piece – so it becomes more about pitching conductors, rather than bands, against judges – yet we call it a "band contest" I think Lorenzo was correctly graded when used in 1968 at the 2nd section Mineworkers finals in Blackpool to separate 12 bands. I was there that day (In short trousers – honest!) It did its job without any dissention about the result. So I hope people will agree with my logic that 37 years later, half a section higher with twice as many bands.. it's not going to work as well.
 
From the comments you publish, (and I agree) we all want to get as accurate result as possible and to do that we have to give participants and adjudicators the best possible chance of this. Unfortunately, the very people I would like to read this and to respond (the people who choose the set pieces) are by now well on their way back to the planet Zobb (Nannu!) and are busily making plans to announce the re-release of "Labour and Love" for the National Finals Championship Section" (on the grounds of heritage and appeal).

Maybe in 2008 - just after they've announced "Four Little Maids" being used for the Section 3 Areas – and before someone writes in and says "Well why not? – they are great pieces" – Why not, is because we will again get adjudicators who admit that the middle 12 bands were "very difficult to place" along with lots of frustrated comments from participants.
 
I would say to the piece choosers – Remember this – brass band contests are not about you, your preferences or your cherished past, neither are they about the thrills and spills of a holiday camp or a day out to anywhere, or about commercial viability – they are about US – the participants – and our interest in how we are measuring up for the future -  so please give the judges the best possible chance and choose horses for courses – not just to get the first few places.
 
Keith Wardle 

Solo Championship concerns

Nice to read the 4BR write up about the British Solo and Quartet Championships.  May I add my own congratulations to all who took part in the event at Hyde on Sunday 6th November.  The playing was excellent and it was a joy to see the enthusiasm of the young players. 

The very small numbers in the audience should be a concern to the organisers.  Low numbers have been the case over the 3 times I have attended this event (2003-05).  However, I suspect due to there being over 40 adult solo competitors, the soloist final started after 6 p.m. - much later than many probably expected. 
As for advertising that the event was on - there was virtually nothing done locally. 

Unless people know of the event through banding sources they would never realise that such a musical treat was on their doorstep.  I would also urge those responsible to take a hard look at the venue.  It is not really the best of halls acoustically - though, admittedly, all competitors face the same problems with the echo etc.  A final point I would make is take your own sandwiches and a flask!  The refreshment provision was far from good.

Peter Hargreaves
Stockport   

Can't understand the whingers!

I can't understand why people choose to write to ‘comments' airing their dismay and disgust that in a recent contest they weren't placed as high as they thought they would be!

I'm sure every Band in the country has felt like this on numerous occasions. Many times I have felt ‘cheated' or ‘robbed' when the result is announced…show me someone who hasn't? But, its part of this strange thing we call ‘banding' and ‘contesting'.

I'm fed up of reading that someone thought their Band should have been 4th rather than 24th etc. Hey, it happens all the time! We just have to accept that its up to the adjudicator. He's paid to do a job and his decision is final. Why get so hung up about it all.

Contesting is about swings and roundabouts and taking the rough with the smooth. Do all the whingeing and moaning you want…..but keep it in the bandroom please.
 
H. Smyth 

The Podcast experience

Congratulations on your first full length podcast. The presenters are obviously knowledgeable, the comments were all quite good, and the production of the podcast was excellent.

I really enjoyed it but I have one MAJOR problem with it. Where was the music!?!?

I don't know any of the people that they are talking about (being an Australian living in Osaka, and not seeing any European or American bands) so I would love some music in between the interviews. That would be brilliant. I just listened to the interviews and thought "hmmmm, I wonder what the band actually sounded like" (especially as the presenters even admitted that they "were fairly critical, really, of the performances that took place...").

Please next time, can we have some music instead of 40 minutes of talking? But a good start nonetheless! Thanks very much

Lucas Burns

4BR Reply:
Thanks Lucas. We have contacted PRS/MCPS about the licence position concerning broadcasting music on a podcast and they have promised to get back to us by December to give us guidelines so we do not break the current law.  

What about a theme tune though?

Well done lads! Just listened to your first Podcast and thoroughly enjoyed it – very entertaining too. Nice to hear from Dave Lea and Keith Wilkinson as well as Frank Renton stirring things up a bit.

It would be great if you could get some music clips on there for next time (although I take the point that there is a question over licences etc), and what about a theme tune?

Very interesting and informative though and I liked the analysis from you both. I'm looking forward to the next one.

David Burroughs 

Invigorating broadcast!

After listening to you first Podcast broadcast on 4BR, I must congratulate you for trying something new once more. Not a bad start, although it would have been nice to hear some of the music you talked about, but it gave us a real picture of the movement in the States and the interviews were very professional.

Keep up the good work, and for trying to reinvigorate our movement.

Peter Stephens
Hyde  

What about us Brits?

I have read your articles on the US Open Brass Band Championships and they are very comprehensive indeed.  I suspect that most of the people reading this wouldn't know much, if, like myself anything about US Brass Bands.

However your coverage of the British Open Solo Championships is sparse in the extreme.  I did see 4BR representatives there to cover the day and for a few lines to be written about a day that consisted of more than 12 hours is disappointing. 

If the information is available, how about runners & riders and dodgy predictions, or a history of past winners on Results Archive? I do think this contest needs the build up and at least the review it deserves. Even though I didn't make the final this year!
 
Martyn Patterson

4BR Reply:
There will be a comprehensive retrospective up on the site soon, but it would be impossible to do a runners and riders preview on the event due to the numbers involved etc. We will look at a slightly different approach for next year though. 

Well done the Aussies - but a prestigious event?

Congratulations to Rosie and Kirsty on their successes at the recent British Open Solos, However I am disappointed to read that in a country which has such a massive number of actively contesting bands and so many thouands of brass players along with a reputation for producing some of the finest Brass Band musicians in the world, for a country which we are all led to believe we are to use as a role model for the successes of Brass Banding and Brass playing, they could only manage a measly 46 entries in their National Solo Championships.
 
This leaves me asking the question "is this really a prestigious event"
 
There is no qualifying rounds for entering (as is the same for our and NZ's nationals and our states), its is open to all competitors (as is our and NZ's Nationals and States) and yet they can only manage to get 46 entries.
 
Surely in a country such as this one would expect that at a National Solo competition they would be able to attract several hundred entries more that we do at our Nationals, but sadly the reverse is true.
 
In my mind, to compare the two (which one is always does as we look to the UK and Europe as the pinnacle of Brass playing), Winning an Australian or New Zealand Solo Championship, winning against a far greater number of your peers, is a far greater achievement and far more prestigious than winning a British Open.
 
Winning a New Zealand or Australian Champion of Champions event is the pinnacle of solo performance and much more worthy a prize than the British Open Solo Championship.
 
In my view, until the numbers of entries are of some significance in relation to the numbers of Bands over there, this solo contest does not deserve the right to be called The British Open and should be regarded as a local regional solo contest. Only a truly National event such as the Australian or New Zealand event should be held in such regard.
 
I take nothing away from Rosie and Kirsty, they are both truly great musicians and masters of their instruments, and as both have won Australian National Championships, Both are well deserved to be called Champions.
 
Jeff Markham
Bandsman serving a life sentence 

Get off our case!

Just get off our case will you. Every comment you make on your site about my band, Knottingley Silver, is either condescending or negative. This is amply shown by your reference in the Pontins 1st section retrospective. How can you possibly judge that we were relieved to get off the stage? We were in fact delighted with the way we played and sorely disappointed with the result.

We were 1st section champions in Yorkshire just over 2 years ago and although we have lost some key players since and struggled a bit at contests we now feel we are working our way back. So if you've nowt good to say about a band with a history going back to 1864,an excellent recent record and that battles on without any kind of sponsorship etc then I for one would prefer it if you said nowt at all.
 
Garry Pearson
Chairman,Knottingley Silver Band. 

20 years away - but some things never change!

I have only this year returned to contesting after a twenty year break! But surprise surprise, I find that adjudication is still as erratic and unpredictable as ever!

How on earth the celebrated experts Messrs Buckley & Sparkes decided the 1st section results at the recent Pontins contest is one of those questions which will never be answered - as we always have to accept the judges final decision, but as a player with Wrexham Brass, I do feel that on the day we were badly let down by the adjudicators almost eccentric choice.

I'm not saying Wrexham should have done the hat trick of 1sts, and well done to the prize winners, but for a band that played really well on the day, and from the feedback from other bands members listening - and of course your own comments, I know that we should have been "in the frame" at least. 10th - no way!
 
Dave Thomas 

Memorable moment from Pontins - Strata style

I would like to mention a memorable moment from the weekend at Pontins. Julie and I were watching Strata playing Laudate Dominum in the 2nd section on Sunday afternoon.

Now there are three very busy percussion parts in this, and they were being played faultlessly by a single percussionist. A phenomenon. He had the battery set up in such a way that he could play every part. An example of this was when he was playing timp with his right hand, snare drum with the left, with a glock beater in his mouth ready for the 'ting' after the timp roll.

His choreography was a pleasure to watch. When we sought him out afterwards to congratulate him, his reply in a rich Yorkshire accent was, "If tha's got two arms and two legs it's a shame to waste 'em" A great character.
 
Tim Paton
TP Music 

Better result for Besses?

I think that the results for Pontins this year could have been better.

Besses Boys worked their fingers to the bone to get to the standard of playing that they are at now. They definitely did not deserve to come 15th. Ok maybe they didn't have the best of days but they were definitely better than some of the other bands that played on the day.

In the article on your website there are only the downfalls of how some of the bands played, what about the good playing that could have been mentioned. I strongly feel that a few of the bands that played on that day were not as good as they could have been in all sections, but that is usually down to pure nerves.

In my eyes and a few other peoples that I have spoken to, Besses Boys deserved to get a better result than what they did.

Kirsten Boradhurst 

The real man in the middle

I have just read your comments with regards to the performance given by the Boarshurst band in the 2nd Section at the recent Pontins Contest. I have to say that I was totally bemused as to what I read. My first question to you is 'were you there?' Secondly, 'Did you just get your information from the programme?'

I think that you should know that Mr. Webster left the band Spring/Summer this year and Mr. David Morris conducted the band at at Pontins. You may ask 'How do I know this?' I was there, with Mr. Webster sat behind me and Mr. Morris in front of me, with a baton in his hand. Now unless Harry Potter was staying at Pontins that weekend, I fail to see how this could happen.

Was this talented musician conducting the band from the back row of the audience? I feel that you owe David an apology and I demand that your comments be amended immediately and include an overview of qualifications of this very talented musician, who led the band on the day and I am sure that the band and everybody connected with it would like to thank David for his efforts in getting the band prepared for the contest and bringing the best out of them.

Also I am sure that everybody would wish him every success with his future musical ventures.

Phillip Aspey
Retired Bandsman
Saddleworth

4BR Reply:
Thanks Phillip. It was the Editor's fault in his editing of the article prepared by John. We have apologised to David and we echoe your thoughts about what he did with the band. 

Do you really know what you are talking about?

You said on your site after the 1st section results on Saturday and I quote: "In a large 26 band field the top two performances stood out for many and there were no causes to query the decision from the men in the box. Both Marsden and Blackburn approached the set work ‘Lorenzo' with broad full sound and with attention to dynamic detail. It was no surprise that Marsden in particular walked off with the top prize of 1750, whilst Blackburn thoroughly deserved their wedge of second placed cash of £900."

What happened between then and your Wednesday review which stated: "The other performances that stood out from the rest for us were Wrexham and VBS Poynton who we had second and third by a distance. However not so Messrs Buckley and Sparkes who declared that it was Blackburn & Darwen who should take the runners-up spot.  From the early draw of number four, it was ‘the marker' without question, but it did have slips and whilst it was a good show, we had down in fifth place."

Do you really know what you are doing and talking about

Ken Wilkinson

4BR Reply:
The first was a news page report Ken, the second was a full retrospective. Sometimes they do differ. 

Disappointing retrospective

I would like to make a couple of points regarding the retrospectives composed by various members of the 4barsrest team: -

Firstly, I think having a completely unbiased opinion on how each band performed is an excellent idea, but my question would be how musically knowledgeable/qualified/experienced are the likes of Mr Fox?
When receiving remarks from adjudicators we are always pleased to see constructive comments on the performance if it was not quite there.
 
However, I am increasing disappointed to read in the retrospectives, comments about my own band such as " Once again the band failed to match the endeavour of the conductor" and the following quote from this years Pontins is  completely unconstructive and actually quite comical.

"We are probably not going to be on the ########### Band Christmas Card list this year with a performance we placed 24th. We felt that MD worked exceptionally hard but unfortunately it wasn't until late in the piece that we felt the band delivered for the MD the performance he went looking for"

Aaron Fawcett 

Thanks EBBA - yeah, thanks a lot
 
For the first time ever the European Championships come to Belfast Northern Ireland.

What do the EBBA do in their great "wisdom" relegate the Northern Ireland representing Band from the Championship Section, to the 1st section. The Championship band from Northern Ireland each year have always received an invitation to compete in the top section, along with the Champions of each country etc.
The band representing Northern Ireland each year are probably the only "true amateur" band competing in real terms. Yes we are never going to win etc, but the honour of now even competing in this league has been denied us.

What a year to do it. Well done EBBA.

C. Andrews 

A dental question

My band master has suggested that I ask this question through 4 bars rest as you have such a wide circulation you may be able to help.
 
I have lost 4 of my top front teeth and for the last 2 years have had a denture which although looks good, does nothing for my trombone playing.  I am considering paying between 6 to 8,000 pounds for dental implants, but I have not been able to find another brass player who has had such work carried out.  I have been trying to get feedback on how successful this kind of work is when subjected to the pressures of brass playing.
 
Have you published any articles on this or can you publish this letter and ask readers for feedback.
 
Andy Scott

4BR Reply:
Can someone out there help? 

A history question as well     
 
I am writing to you in the hope that if you can't answer this question you might be able to tell me who can!
 
I am led to believe that the Burton Latimer Britannia Silver Prize Band a Northamptonshire band, which included my grandfather, a great-uncle and an uncle, won a contest at the Crystal Palace circa 1904/5. I have looked at the lists on your excellent website but the lower class results do not go back that far.
 
I wonder how I could find out what class they contested and any more details about the contest.
 
John Meads

4BR Reply:
We have looked ourselves John, but can't help at present. We have the records for the time but not for the smaller contests. The information is out there, but it may need a fair amount of digging. 

Don't forget the Staines

I was reading your headline on October's rankings with deserved mentions for Yorkshire Imps and Redbridge. I do feel however you have neglected to mention Staines Band's 78 place leap in the rankings. After working hard for the last 2 years or so they are beginning to reap the rewards without much recognition.

There is only one reason they have climbed so dramatically. They have defeated supposed "better" bands above them in the rankings. The same goes for the other 2 bands that I noticed have had a 70 plus leap.
I think it would only be fair to give recognition to such achievements in the future.

John Storey 

Canadian Brass - the great and the not so great
 
I was overjoyed recently to see an advert for a tour of the UK by the magnificent ensemble 'Canadian Brass'. I have been wanting to see them live for a very long time. I also managed to persuade seven more of my friends to get tickets for their performance at the NEC music live! show. This was the only performance on their tour which we would be able to get to see easily due to location. I realised that this would not be the perfect place to see the group perform, but I cannot believe the way in which the audience and performers were treated at this venue and the apparent lack of organisation.
 
I have already emailed Canadian Brass thanking them for making one of my ambitions come true. Their performance was astounding. I attended one of the master classes they gave in the morning. Canadian Brass entered the room giving a beautiful and theatrical rendition of 'Just a closer walk with thee.' They then worked with 2 student music groups giving excellent tips and advice. The students and teachers responded well and the audience all noticed an improvement in the performance of the students over the duration of the class. However by the end of the hour there was noticeable interference caused by the ambient noise drifting into the room from elsewhere in the venue. Although the Canadian Brass took this in good spirit and made a joke about the situation; ' that's just the percussion section warming up', it did detract from the success.
 
The performance on the live stage was awe inspiring - featuring solo parts from each of the ensemble, some fantastic piccolo trumpet playing and a performance of a specially composed work by English composer, Bramwell Tovey. However throughout the whole of the performance the brass ensemble were competing with a rock group performing in the next room. The Kerrang stage was at times louder than the performers who were less than 20 feet away from me. I cannot believe that the Music live show has no experience in dealing with the requirements of different musical groups, but this was quite simply appalling!

I felt as if I had got my friends here under false pretences. It was quite simply the professionalism of The Canadian Brass which saved the day with their magnificent playing and the ability to make light of the situation. When a world class ensemble is invited to perform at an event in this country, I would have thought that they should have been awarded greater respect by the organisers!
 
I must also complain about the organisation of the car parking as some of my friends were unable to attend - When they arrived at the overflow car park, they were told that they would have to wait an hour for the next bus or walk for 20 minutes in the pouring rain to gain access. As the NEC is allegedly one of the premier exhibition centres in Europe, I would have thought that they would be able to manage car parking even when they have several events going on at the same time.
 
In conclusion, many thanks to Canadian Brass for putting up with what appears to be to me some of the worst organisation of a venue I have seen in a long time.
 
Mr. K. Beard. 

Well done Trevada

I have noticed that Travada Music have come under some criticism lately and would just like to give them some praise and a huge thank you. I am the Musical Director of the St Austell Youth Band and we were at a contest this weekend held at the Riviera Centre, Torquay.

As we were waiting to go into registration one of our cornet players encountered a problem with his second valve which rendered his instrument unplayable.

I took the instrument straight to the Travada Music trade stand, showed it to them and explained that we were due on stage in around 10 - 15 minutes. Without question they took an instrument off their stand and loaned it to us. Without their generosity we would have been in serious trouble for our performance, especially as we are already short of players.

Well done and thank you to all at Travada who certainly saved the day for us.
 
Kevin Ackford
Brass Band Composer/ Arranger/Conductor/Tutor 

Scrap registration and all you get will be chaos

We are now asked to consider the idea of scrapping registration at a contest basically because the modern bandsman is not committed to all the aspects of playing in a team, this prevents a growing number of bands from attending these events and ultimately that band going out of existence.

What is the point of a team competition that allows some individuals to play in several performances, it's a ludicrous idea. It would encourage the more mercenary young college professional musicians who have brought a high standard of performance to our amateur organisation, but at the end of the day are looking for a financial reward because they are professional.

The registry system is now so weak it allows named players to participate at contest around the world as guest players, this year the Norwegian guy became a honorary Cornishman for a week to play in the first section at Grand Shield contest, and he is just one of many examples.

If the band cannot attract sufficient members to perform at a contest then it will either go with a players missing or does not attend. If the number of contest are reduced it is a terribly sad fact, even worse if the number of bands are reduced, but a contest made up of 10 bands with say 25% of the players playing with more than one band is a complete waist of time and effort and will do nothing for the longevity of bands or the Brass Band movement.

Ernest Lomas 

The hall half full, or half empty?

Mr Brookes I do not wish to enter a debate on the comments I made (which by the way I still believe to be the case for the 'non educated bands person'). However, the facts are quite simple - the hall remained at least half empty throughout the day.

If it appealed to your tastes and the tastes of a half full Albert Hall all well and good. The fact remains the pieces being written for bands today on the whole are not easy to listen too.

Our personal tastes are our own as are our opinions. The point I am trying to make is these pieces will not appeal to the un-educated ear. It is a known fact 85% of all audiences are non players, I hope you will see where I am coming from. As a movement we are very parochial - the audience is out there we just have to appeal to them.

Geoffrey Whitham (one of the great characters of the band movement & a personal favourite of mine) would probably say "the majority of today's bands can't play a tune" Its easy to see why.
 
C. Williams
Dudley 

November Editorial - spot on lads!

Usually I can find something to dispute in your editorials (if I really work at it), but you've defeated me this month. Spot on, guys.
 
No other musical competition persists with the ridiculous pretence of closed adjudication. How many people really think that the professional musicians that judge band contests will, as soon as they are exposed to daylight, immediately start awarding contests to their mates and cronies that they see on stage? Maybe 150 years ago that was an issue, but now? Similarly, does anyone really accept this idiotic argument that adjudicators should be separated because "the dominant personality will overrule the others"?

No, what will happen is that two or three experienced musician will debate the matter and reach a consensus, just as they do in really big money competitions like the Leeds Piano Competition, Cardiff Singer of the World or BBC Young Musician of the Year.
 
As far as Wales and the EBBA are concerned, it doesn't surprise me. As a North Welshman who grew up going to the North West Area because the South Wales Association was unremittingly intransigent and unco-operative, I briefly thought that things had improved in recent years, but no. As far as I'm aware, representatives from North and West Wales do not support this move by the Welsh BBA and I would suggest that those bands (plus South Welsh bands that are hopeful of a European place) should be allowed to immediately change to a different area - NW for the North Wales bands (Blackpool is nearer than Swansea anyway), Midlands for the West Wales bands and West of England for bands like BAYV.

If you doubt that there is a South Wales mafia of old farts controlling Welsh banding, ask yourself how often the Welsh area has been held in Rhyl, Llandudno, Bangor or Aberystwyth, all of which could easily host it.
 
On the subject of swing, the only MD I've come across that can get a band to swing is Martin Heartfield, now at Thoresby but I met him at the (now sadly defunct I think?) Nottingham City Transport Band; I seem to remember Martin was a big band enthusiast and the only conductor that managed to get "Sweet Georgia Brown" genuinely rocking!
 
Andrew Baker 

Swapping instruments

I have to say I agree with Mr Shaw, if a brass player can't swap between brass instruments, there should not be a loophole to allow him to play percussion, especially when the band in question had 2 (or was it 3) shed builders of it's own! If they couldn't play the part they should leave it out.

It all makes the guy from Strata look like the hero he was (a superb solo performance!) I wish the 3rd cornet player all the best with the area test piece! Hmmmmm! TAXI!

Mark Gillatt 

Can't believe it!

Replying to Nigel Brinklow Who said that he can't believe what people said about brass players playing percussion.

Brass players cant play any other brass instruments on stage neither can percussionist play brass. so why should brass players be able to play percussion??? Answer that one!

Clare Roebuck 

It's happened before you know

Reference the use of a cornet player using a percussion instrument, this also happened many years ago with the Yorkshire Bus Company Band at the Pontins contest, where the 3rd cornet player and 4th man down played a small piece of percussion instrumentation for a few bars.
 
This is mainly due to personnel factors in larger scored pieces, but was stated from the rules as follows:-
 
‘..no member of any competing band may play more than 1 instrument except percussion…'
 
This obviously has 2 interpretations:
 
1. Brass players can only play one bras instrument, but any piece(s) of percussion
 
OR
 
2. Percussionists are the only people allowed to play more than 1 ‘instrument'.
 
Performing band took it as the former, our complainants took it as the latter. In the intervening years, this may have been further clarified, but the Contest authorities sided with the Bus Company Band on that occasion
 
Mike Norton 

Not a problem really

I don't see how people find a problem with this! If there's someone else to cover a part then why not? Especially if it means an additional part is going in!

I've done it on numerous occasions at band contests and I know the band I played with still do it! As long as a player isn't missing important bits on there parts and they're going to put in an important part, I see no problem at all.

Lauren Lilley 

Moles and their speculation

It is all well and good speculating on which players are possibly on the move, however please remember that your speculation affects people involved. How do you think the current second euphonium at YBS will feel? Especcialy when (Boycott) is probably very very wide of the mark.

Simon Gresswell
Hove Edge  

Excellent article - at 4 meters long!

What an excellent article by Stephen Didcott revisiting Derek Bougeois' thesis on contesting (and superb value at almost 4 metres long).

I recently returned to banding and contesting and it was a real comfort to see that so little had changed (sic).  At the Finals we were looked after very well but it could all be a lot more ...... musical.

Surely it's time for real change.

Chris Evans
Coventry   

YBS deserved more from their Eden

I am glad to see that somebody else (John Brooks) thought YBS' performance, despite having a few errors was, in more than one place, superior to any on the day.

I suppose it all comes down to personal taste once again, but should a band be so harshly punished for slips when it is clear that they can play the piece error free, but just had more than their fair share of bad luck on the day and managed to get more out of the piece than anyone. And lets face it, the adjudicators must have been quite forgiving of a few errors in Leyland's winning performance.

YBS set the contest alight, and surely the magic of their sound deserved more than fifth place. YBS maybe didn't deserve 1st place, but they would have certainly won 1st place if there was a prize for most special performance. If I could hear any performance again it would be this one- so much colour and Yorkshire class! (sorry to continue the nationals subject, which you must have thought you'd just about heard the last of!

Matthew Clark 

A fine man and a great bandsman

Could you please include the following in the news section as Phoenix WM had an association with Mark Williams and would appreciate the opportunity to register our condolences and gratitude for what Mark did for the band.

Phoenix West Midlands Brass would like to add their condolences to the family of Mark Williams. Mark conducted Phoenix WM in their first venture in to contesting and set the band on the road to success. Many of the current players played under Mark and his death has come as a shock to us all.

This weeks rehearsal began with a moment of reflection as several of the band received the news for the first time. As with our friends at The Staffordshire Band we pay tribute to his contribution to bands in the West Midlands.

Phoenix West Midlands Brass Band 

What a fantastic weekend with Mount Charles

What a fantastic weekend spent away with the Mount Charles Youth Band. We left St Austell @ 10am to travel to Torquay for the South West band Championships, on Sat 5 Nov.

They then rehearsed. After rehearsal waited for the draw. Oh No drawn No 1 (my fault). Played with maturity & held their heads up with pride. Won the contest for the 11th time (1994 -2005) not a bad achievement.

They then went on to perform a celebration concert in the evening to celebrate the achievement of winning the Youth Band Championships for the last consecutive 10 years.

At about 9 pm we left Torquay for London arriving about 3 in the morning. We had a fabulous free day in the centre of London. On Monday the band attended rehearsals @ the Royal Albert Hall. Finished mid afternoon. (struggled to get a cooked a meal). Back for 6 to change. 6.59 Fanfare For The Common Man - For those that were there wasn't it lovely.

Downstairs for the excellent performance of Bolero,Vitae lux & Kongolela without music. Mad dash back to the hotel for Food & relaxation. Could I just say as a very proud parent. Thank you for a very enjoyable weekend & many more  in the future ,you have been a pleasure to go away with.

This is a Youth Band from Cornwall that gets no support from its local community, council, etc.(but appreciated beyond). Has very little finance. To try and maintain this success is down to the young members of this band & the parent's who try to finance on low incomes.

An awful listening piece? - I don't think so...........

Craig Williams of Dudley wrote "The piece? Beautifully written, technically very difficult, tough to read and for the non-educated bands person an awful listening piece!"

I too had the good fortune to be at the RAH and found "Eden" to be anything but awful listening.  I would also suggest that the reception given to Dr. Pickard indicated that the majority of the audience had enjoyed and appreciated it too. Had the majority in the audience agreed with Mr.Williams, surely the applause would have been polite at best and replete with boos and cat-calls at the worst. As it was, he received a resounding and enthusiastic reception.

The highlight of the day for me was the performance of the ending of ‘Eden' by YBS.  That was hair raising stuff and, speaking personally, those final two minutes or so were not played so effectively by any other band; but by then it was too late.

John Brooks
Cambridge, Ontario 

Is this man for real?
 
Is Dean Shaw (the letter about a cornet player playing percussion at Pontins - see below) for real?

I know that I'm going to sound rude, but is this guy for real? Why on earth would anyone consider a brass player playing a percussion instrument to be so "unbelievable"? As if the brass band movement hasn't got enough rules to be getting on with.

It's exactly this kind of attitude to music making that hinders the forward movement of brass bands. I remember being at a contest where an official told me that if I crossed the line to move a stand that the "clock would be started and your band will be disqualified!" I'm wondering if Dean Shaw is the same person.

Thankfully, contest organisation is moving the right direction and more concessions are being made to allow musicians the chance of performing on stage, particularly when there is so much anecdotal evidence to suggest that the brass band movement is in decline.

Isn't that what music making is supposed to be about?

Nigel Brinklow  

The musical Waltons perhaps?

The Laycock household had cause for celebration at Pontins on Sunday with Dad, George (coordinator with Wire Brass), daughter Alison, (1st Horn Wire), wife and mother Sylvia, (2nd Cornet United Co-op 2000) and son Richard (Soprano Cornet United Co-op 2000) when they achieved 1st & 2nd places in the second section competition. 

It's not everyday a family can celebrate such outstanding results whilst performing with different bands, it brings a conclusion to the friendly family debate about who would be best in a straight fight, point proved but both well deserved.

George Laycock

4BR Reply:
What a family – latter day Mortimers. It would take some extended family to beat that George – the Waltons perhaps? 

A nice big thank you to the judges

On the behalf of Hawk Green (Marple) Band I would like to thank Mr Roy Sparks and Mr Brian Buckley for placing the Band 6th in the 2nd section at Pontins.

The Band was very pleased with the result beating many good Bands on the day. Hawk Green (Marple) have some very talented young players ranging from 13 to16 years old, sat on solo seats so this result has given them much needed encouragement.
 
Mark Singleton
Solo Trombone. 

Dodgy percussionists!

Whether this is allowed or not it should not have been accepted. On Sunday in the Second Section one of the bands that played their 3rd cornet player stood up out of his seat half way through the piece and played percussion...then sat back down and played cornet???

Unbelievable!! If the band doesn't have the player to play the part they should borrow a player if allowed or leave the part out like the rest of the bands did.

Is this allowed??????? It shouldn't be if it is!!!

Dean Shaw

4BR Reply:
We are not totally 100% certain Dean, but we think it is. Brass players cannot play another brass instrument on stage, and a percussionist cannot play a brass instrument either, but a brass player can we understand play a percussion part! Strange but true! 

Now we know...

I'm a player from Trentham Band and noticed on your website that you said that you didn't have much research on the band!! This is because this is the new name of the band due to recent sponsorship from Trentham Leisure!

The conductor is Mike Caveney who is well known in the Salford University realms. The band was originally called Stoke-on-Trent brass band (before that Royal Doulton!) That might help because the band history is quite interesting. There was recently an article about us in the Bandsman!

It's a fairly young band just now (our youngest player is 6+1/2) but there older ones guiding them in the right direction!!

Miss Rachael Calvert

4BR Reply:
Now we all know! 

Sovereign have been crowned three times!

Re. Past Winners – Sovereign Brass are now Woolley Pritchard Sovereign Brass – I believe they won the Championship Section in 1996, giving them 3 wins overall

Gary Jones

4BR Reply:
Sorry Gary – You are quite right: The band won the 4th Section in 1989, the Third in 1990 and then the Championship in 1996 – some record that.  

A pretty good Jack of All Trades!

In response to a little quib from Mr R. Harvey. If you don't want to listen to what is on stage, go and buy a sandwich, coffee or what ever takes your fancy.

Judging by the response of the audience Mr Williams managed to enthrall many present, and I can assure you that having been privileged enough to work with him on several occasions now, that he is not only a superb Euph player, but a pretty damn good jack of all trades.

Maybe the programme should have included another difficult test piece, or maybe that a little ‘wallpaper' music was just what was required for a bit of fun before the results. Maybe he just didn't adhere to whatever high standards that you would set. If so, then I'm sure that many of us would like you to share your expertise to help us all improve!

Andy Austin   

True quiet playing - the Welsh way

I read with interest the article on this subject, and whilst I accept to some degree what you say, I would suggest that the band with which I am connected, the Buy as You View Band, has on many occasions given an object lesson in the art of pianissimo playing.
 
Any band can play a ff, or even a fff, but to hear a band such as mine play a true pianissimo is a joy.   Doctor Robert Childs has made this an art form, and has always demanded a high degree of musicality from the band, which includes playing at levels that on occasion, needs the listener to strain his ears in order to capture the moment.
 
Selwyn Protheroe

^back to top