Comments ~ 2005: June

No Scottish Confusion; Beer, Bakery and pests; Prometheus Unbound; looking for the Moray Firth and even the appalling lot of the underpaid and overworked peri teacher as we come to the end of flaming June.

No Scottish confusion

I note in your recent news article that you seem to indicate some sort of problem might exist with qualification to the EBBA championships from bands in Scotland. Your article states "The Scottish situation is also slightly confusing, as since 1971 the Scottish Championships has incorporated the Regional Championships. Therefore, Scotland can continue to offer qualification to the EEBA Europeans to its Scottish Champions - who by coincidence also happen to be the Regional Champions as well".

Might I point out to you that to my mind there is absolutely no confusion. Scotland as a full member of EBBA and with a national association of it's own will always put forward the name of the Champion band of Scotland for the EBBA European Championships. For the 2006 contest this will be the Scottish Champion band Newtongrange Silver who earned that right by winning the Scottish Championships contest.

I might point out that Besson have no rights whatsoever in regard to the Scottish Championships which are owned wholly by the Scottish Brass Band Association. As you state, quoted above, it is merely a coincidence that the Scottish Championships incorporate the regional qualifying event for the National Championships of Great Britain. Were this relationship to cease tomorrow, Scotland would still have a Championship contest and a Champion Band to put forward for the EBBA championships.

John Martin

Beer, Bakery and pest control...

As a relative new comer to all this email inter web type stuff (I earn my living as a lowly squirrel killer/ pest controller) I have just been reading the banter regarding Roberts Bakery Band and their lack of contesting.

I am also very proud to be an ex robbo's boy, so much so that I still wear my band tie when administering the last rites to squirrels. Anyway to the point, like soft lad; I now play with United 2000 Co op band  in Crewe who do quite a few contests per year. So as having been on both sides of the fence, I don't think it matters.

If anything the Bakery band is only missing out on the large drinking sessions that are held after every contest, but as all ex robbo's boys knows a contest is not required to get totally drunk as a skunk.
 
Martin Boardman 

Is Prometheus really that easily unbound?

I really have to ask the music selection committee at the Butlins Championship why they think a 2nd Section band can play ‘Prometheus Unbound'. 

No doubt it can be called a classic, no doubt the best championship section bands in the country can make it sound great, but I have a serious doubt as to whether or not a 2nd Section team can make this piece sound anything like it should.   I really do feel for the adjudicators on the day. Ok there is plenty of notice for rehearsal of it -  ok there is time to try to do it justice, but after the innovation of last year to use Mr Frazer's excellent work, I must feel disappointed at this choice.

On other point - just what on earth am I to do with three percussionists that it has taken a year to get on board, committed to rehearsals, for the duration of work that will be needed to get even close to this work.

Remember the RVW at the areas; not a band in the land got close to this, so will we be reading the same for Prometheus - I think so.

Please music choosers, don't forget Sparke, Richards, Graham, Gregson et al

L. Price
South Wales

Appalling levels - not standards of peri work in schools
 
Please don't confuse "appalling standards of peripatetic teaching" with "appalling levels of peripatetic teaching" in our schools.

I agree that a good number of our bands don't seem to be able to play quietly (see below), but don't throw the blame at the peri's who are struggling to teach the greatest number of youngsters for the shortest time because the school won't/can't pay for a sufficient session, or because the new strategy from the government called "wider opportunities" means effectively that it is no longer the standard of the players that are turned out, but whether the whole class have had a chance to play a trumpet!!!

The thought (?) behind this is that just by trying instruments over a few weeks, without the sort of commitment I had to make under the tutelage of Gershom Collison and Geoff Whitham at Hammonds, will "develop a sense of self-worth and encourage wider learning skills!!!! 

Yes it might, but what about re-introducing the quality element as well as the enjoyment? I consider my colleagues and myself in Leeds as being of a high quality and certainly able to get youngsters to play quietly with tone.

Perhaps we should have a go at the conductors who don't insist on quiet playing as an essential facet of brass band music making. Perhaps we should listen to some of the top bands who can play beautifully quietly with tone - I've spent over thirty years playing in Championship bands playing a damn good ppp.

PS. We are fully qualified to teach our instruments, we don't double up as clarinet and violin teachers (or vice versa) as some private " peri supplying organisations" do!   

Gordon Eddison
Hammonds, Imps, Carlton Main 

The future of banding - Sale style

I'd like to say that we (Sale) have a consistent attendance of 20 plus at each rehearsal throughout the year (even throughout summer). The band competes in the fourth section and attends at the smaller contests, although it has had previous problems it's now up to full strength bar a Bb Bass.

The band is content to balance concerts and contests without going over the top and is willing to try challenging pieces to improve its standard. Gone are the days when we were two rehearsals a week, one full strength and the next with ten. We have one a week and enjoy our music making. We have extra rehearsals when we need to (a contest / a major concert), and draw good audiences each time we perform at a concert.

The membership is not dictated to in any way (other than to ensure they attend when they possibly can), and the younger members of the band even work exams around their rehearsals! - Are we just lucky? - well, we have had a few people attend with intent to join, and have walked because we maybe weren't up to their standard, but we still hold our numbers (even when members have emigrated to America).

Bands out there - regroup, and look very carefully at what you are doing. Encourage the smaller town bands to flourish, support them with more experience, and let them grow. Don't rob them of their better players to improve your higher section band, share your wealth of knowledge, don't laugh at their tenacity to compete (as some have through Buxton and other contests), be constructive - not destructive, and long may banding continue at all levels.
 
Steve Shawcross
MD Sale Brass

Looking for the Moray Firth?

I have been asked by an American friend (Musical Director of Pacific Brass, Salinas, CA) if I may be able to help him obtain band parts to a march called "Moray Firth" composed by Rod McKenzie and published originally by R Smith & Co.
 
I have personally never heard of this march, which may well be out of print, but possibly someone out there might know where I can lay my hands on a band set.  Any ideas anyone?
 
Sue Bohanna
Rhyl 

Please take note!!!

Could people please stop writing really long letters?

Alun Richards

4BR Comment:
Thanks Alun. We would ask people to try and keep their comments short and to the point if they can - although they can be a bit longer than yours..

There is more to just being a good contest band

In response to Shaun Roche's post, I must ask the question on whether the contest results really mean some bands are better than others. Yes, contests are important to see where you are in terms of other bands but there is so much more to banding that some people seem to be forgetting.

Is it not also of great importance to develop an entertaining concert programme? Is it not important for bands to go away on tour to bond as a unit socially, as well as musically? Can a band's quality be judged upon their recordings? Or on the players that will come to play with us in concert?

Roberts Bakery have a reputation in the North West for putting on a good concert. If we didn't, we wouldn't draw such great attendances in Northwich, Sale, Crewe & Winsford for instance. I'm also sure that not many people are aware of the Roberts Bakery Band's annual participation in the European Blasmusikfestival in Schlema, Germany which is a great social occasion as well as to represent Britain.

Our last CD, 'A Classical Celebration' has been played alongside the very best bands on GMR by John Maines - 2 tracks have already been featured over the past month. And we have been able to feature Mark Wilkinson and Richard Marshall as soloists in recent years, with Russell Gray playing with us in concert on the 15th of July.

Is this not as important to brass bands these days? Or is the sole purpose of bands nowadays simply to compete around the country, several times a year? Understandably, the ranking system reflects such bands - but rankings aside, why should Roberts' be considered any less of a good band for only going to the Regionals?

So if people are prepared to judge us (amongst others) purely on such a system, perhaps they would like to hear us first. 'Finale from Faust' will be on GMR on Sunday from our 2005 CD.

Finally, if Shaun takes Whit Friday results that seriously (and not for the whole occasion like me), it may interest him to know that despite getting beaten by United Co-op 2000 at 2 of 3 contests, 'Robbos boys' still managed to beat Fodens and Leyland at the Carrbrook contest.

Tom Hancock
Second Cornet
Roberts Bakery Band

The future of banding?

Monday - 12 in band
Tuesday - 14 in band
Wednesday - 15 in band
Thursday - Cancelled due to insufficient numbers
Friday - 14 in band
Sunday - 19 in band
 
Third and Fouth Section Band attendances?  No - two Championship and one First Section Bands.
 
The future of banding? Sadly, no, the present!
 
Andrew Jones
South Wales 

Lack of respect and irresponsibility
 
Perhaps I'm a few days late in having a rant, but I'll have one anyway! I am totally amazed by your story about the Yorkshire Imperial band asking for a bye in the Open. I feel that the contest organisers have been very irresponsible in granting them leave and they seem to be the only contest committee who think that it is all right to do this.
 
Two comparisons, if I may: What would happen if a championship section band asked for leave from the National finals? The scenario is very unlikely, as most bands would give up their Grannies in order to play at the Albert Hall, but can you imagine the organisers say 'oh it's alright, you can come back next year'? We must not forget that the Open is also a qualifying contest. Secondly, I must applaud the All England Masters organisation for taking a tough stance on bands withdrawing from their contest. It was not that long ago the 4BR hard-drive was buzzing with letters and articles arguing the pros and cons of the Leyland Band's withdrawal.
 
As far my opinion of Yorkshire Imperial is concerned, I think that they have shown a great lack of respect for their fellow bands. Being in the British Open is a great privilege that many bands only ever dream of. To toss the oldest contest in the world aside for the sake of a few quid only shows the rest of us how high the Open comes on their agenda.
 
I would like to see Yorkshire Imperial relegated to the Grand Shield next year and the same fate to any band not willing to treasure their place in the contest. I would also like to see at least four bands move up to the Open (and down to the Shield) every year, as I think that this policy would eradicate some of the complacency of some of our 'top' bands.
 
Ok, ranting over. I've not really got anything against either the Open committee or Yorkshire Imperial (great contest, great band), but I feel that both organisations have acted very unwisely over this matter.
 
Duncan Wilson
Huntingdon

Flowers instead of Imps

Maybe I'm slightly biased but I think Flowers Band should replace Imps at this years Open no questions asked. We have some great bands competing in the Grand Shield at the moment striving to get a place. Now we seem to have bands to don't give a toss whether they are there or not. British Open committee you have no bottle end of story. Get it sorted before we become a laughing stock.
 
Kev Robbins
Bristol

A slap in the face

What a slap in the face for the bands who tried their hearts out at the Grand Shield to try and get one of the most precious places at the most famous and important contest in the brass banding world.

If you feel your band can't hack it, just book a concert and have a year off. What a nonsense – the organisers should have thrown out Yorkshire Imps and allowed one of the bands from the Grand Shield to take their place.

John Webster
Crewe

Something stinks in Wales

Come on SEWA or should that be SEWER (because something, somewhere, stinks). Get your act together. The whole European business is making Welsh banding a right laughing stock. Let's all hear exactly what the problem is, or is it a big secret. Your association's secretary should make a press release, a problem shared........

Hey, I've just had a brainwave, let's forget Europe and join the North American BBA instead, a capital idea methinks.

Wynne Williams,
Trefor

Why are we having a go at the Welsh?
 
Why are people having a bash at the Welsh and the way in which they run their committees and make their decisions?

All these complaints come from bandsmen and women who are such an apathetic lot that they never go to any of these meetings anyway. Well done Wales for taking your time to make a decision that you feel is of the most benefit to your bands. So what if it takes a year to make it – given the track record of the Europeans in taking years and then making rubbish decisions we should be grateful that Wales seems to be doing the right thing. 

Ian Williams
Derby

Magnificent Heaton

I have just been listening to the latest Wilfred Heaton CD release – Volume 3, and must agree with your review on 4BR about it. 

This is a magnificent CD release, and Paul Hindmarsh must be congratulated for his efforts in bringing together the disparate threads of Heaton's later output in such a manner.

Congratulations to all concerned. 

Norman Jones 

What is wrong with Wales?

What is the matter with people in Wales? How on earth the various committees in Wales can think they are doing any good by not deciding to rejoin EBBA and their European Championships in beyond comprehension.  

We know there seems to be a conflict of interest in some places, but even that cannot explain the lack of decision making about an event (the Kapitol promoted European) that is unlikely now to take place. It is becoming an embarrassment to Welsh banding. 

Colin Dillon

A Welsh Flying Pig

I read with interest last month's letter from Peter Hartley of Bournemouth.  As Secretary of the North Wales Brass Bands Association, my only interest, and that of my two fellow officers, is in representing accurately and fairly the views of our membership, and in promoting banding in our area and beyond.  We have no motives other than to do all we can to benefit our members and raise the profile of brass bands generally as best we can. 

We are existing or former players who care about the future of banding, both in our small part of the world and nationally.  We put in a lot of work, and attend a lot of meetings.  We all have family and domestic commitments.  In my case, I am also a playing member of a local band with a very busy full time job and other interests.  I don't do what I do because it benefits me personally (because it doesn't) and there are hundreds of people like me all over the UK. For most of us, it is just a lot of time consuming hard work, and sometimes we wonder why we bother.  

But you are right.  The sad fact is that many bands either choose not to be members of their Association locally, or being members, do not take an active part in Association meetings and Association run events. I don't know if you are right about the reasons overall, although I am sure that there are bands who don't trust the process of decision making, or alternatively, who don't trust certain individuals involved in that process. Still, if you are correct, and you may be, then it is important that bands say something rather than simply stay away. 

Association officials like me can only represent the views of bands if bands express their views, and the time to do that is at Association meetings. If just one band said to me that they were minded not to support our Association for the reasons you outline in your letter, then I would be very concerned.  So far that has not happened, and if it did, I hope that I would be able to do something to address the problem.  You may well be right about improvements which could be made to the existing systems in place, but for now, we can only work with the system we have and try to make it better. 

I can only urge bands who have strong opinions on particular aspects of the decision-making processes which affect them to raise their concerns at Local Association level.  Officers are elected, and can be de-elected if you are not happy that they are working in your interests.

Sue Bohanna
Rhyl 

Great - but still a bit negative boys

Firstly may I offer congratulations on what is without the doubt the best site available dedicated to the movement we all love (or do we?).

I for one do love the movement. It has provided me with the best memories and experiences of my life to date, provided introductions to people who have subsequently become my dearest and closest friends (who, without banding I would never have met), and also led to me doing things unconnected with banding that have also brought very fine and fond memories. 

More importantly, banding became a great passion of my late father. As the librarian for the Roberts Bakery Band (for whom I played Bass Trombone for 9 years) and a patron of the Fodens Band, banding became his No. 1 pass time following his retirement. He attended rehearsals, concerts, contests, social events, overseas trips, everything. In fact, during my time with Roberts', he missed fewer rehearsals than myself, before his very sudden and untimely death in 2001. 

Following his death I took approximately 12 months away from banding as it really wasn't the same for me and actually became too hard for me to carry on with emotionally. But, as the saying goes ‘you can take the boy out of the band but you can't take the band out of the boy' and eventually resumed playing with the United Co-op 2000 Brass Band in Crewe.  

As I'm sure you can imagine and appreciate, this was decision which while making my mother immensely proud, also tested her emotions to the full, as she had never seen me play without the company of my father. However, I am delighted to say that my mother is now actively involved with my current band, most recently spending the weekend in Blackpool with the band at the North-West Area contest. 

Now, obviously at this point you're wondering what on earth my point is, and who can blame you! 

Well my point is simple – GUYS, BE MORE POSITIVE! 

I have already offered my praise for your website, and rightly so. But why are so many of your articles, reviews etc so negative? I refer in particular to post-contest remarks, which, more often than not are of a negative ilk. 

As players, and indeed human beings we are all capable of a ‘bad day at the office'. However, we are also (usually) fully aware if we have had one at a particular contest, whether collectively, individually or both. To then read comments (some of which are also needlessly sarcastic) is really not required. 

During my time with Roberts Bakery, I was lucky enough to spend three years in the Championship Section. We played (although I'm sure 4BR would have said ‘tried to play') three awesome works in Montage, Blitz, and my favorite of the three, Variations on an Enigma. Two out of the three years we either played directly before or after Fodens or Faireys. The whole experience of this, and everything else that came with playing in the top section benefited all within the band in one way or another.

However, we also knew that life would be tough, we knew we weren't even close to the standard of the majority of bands in the section and we knew a placing in the top half come results time was the very best we could hope for. For the record we'd been promoted for consistently good results in the 1st Section without actually winning it or indeed qualifying for the Nationals!! 

My point is I'm thankful that 4BR was not around at the time to write a contest retro because I firmly believe that the negative, sarcastic comments would have been there in abundance for us during our three year stay in the Championship Section. Please, please continue your dedicated coverage of the contest scene and by all means give opinions on who was good, not so good or anything in between. But can we please have this without so much negativity and in some cases, very personal ‘put-downs'.  

Banding has enriched my life and I wouldn't be without it, it is a very unique, very special movement. Let's be thankful of that, enjoy it more and find fault with it less. 

Andy Steele
Bass Trombone
United Co-op 2000 Brass 

The 'Imps' affair

Am I missing something? Imps "paid concert" on the day of the British Open is scheduled to start at 7.30pm. The Open is due to start at 11.00am. Even by today's slow "over rate" of only 2.5 bands to the hour, the band drawn 15 would have left the stage at Symphony Hall by 5.00pm - still time to get up the M6 in time for the concert.

Surely all they had to do was ask for a draw in the first 5 - I cannot imagine anyone would have objected.

John Roberts  

Thanks for the facts 4BR - but the Open is still cheapened
  
Well done 4BR for bringing the facts about the Yorkshire Imps case to light after some pretty awful tittle tattle on other forums on the web in recent days. 

How the organisers get out of this hole is now a real matter for concern for all bands who would wish to take part in this event in future. They made a rod for their own backs with Grimethorpe a couple of years ago when they were playing at the Proms, but now another band says it cannot play because of a paid engagement.

The obvious answer was, and is, to demote the bands from the Open and replace them with bands who are willing to make the necessary sacrifice to play in the best brass band contest in the world.  

If this does not happen, what will occur the next time that a Dyke, BAYV, YBS get the chance to play in a high profile event on the same date? Will they get the same treatment as the likes of a lesser ‘name' band?

The organisers have got this wrong and it cheapens the whole British Open. 

Peter Collins
Andover 

The British Open banana boat  

Do the British Open organisers really think we all came off the last banana boat into the UK? 

Yorkshire Imps say they have had this event in their diary for over a year and they still couldn't get out of it, whilst the British Open ‘suggested' they didn't put it on their list of engagements until they themselves could sort something out? 

Come on – Imps should have cancelled the concert if they really had the intention of wanting to compete – and the organisers should have told them that if they couldn't then they would have to forfeit their place at the contest.  

And now the organisers say that requests for a ‘bye' will not be granted without penalty, except in truly exceptional circumstances. 

And what would that be eh? Dyke at the Proms, Grimethorpe on a ‘Brassed Off' gig or what about a non sponsored band doing a job with a potential investor and sponsor that could lead to them surviving for years to come? 

Because the British Open hasn't put its foot down it has started to become a laughing matter.

Trevor Jones 

An Open disgrace  

As a supporter of a band that competed at the Grand Shield, the decision to allow Yorkshire Imps a bye is a disgrace.  

If they (or any other band for that matter) decide not to compete then they should lose their place at the contest and be replaced by the band that came third, or fourth even at the Grand Shield. 

The British Open is the greatest brass band contest in the world, but now bands seem to think that it should be run for their benefit only. Yorkshire Imps are the latest in line to ‘opt out' when it suits them – who will be next, and who will decide what is a ‘truly exceptional circumstance'? 

You start getting the feeling that it is one rule for some – no rules for others. This is nothing short of a disgrace.  

P. King
Liverpool 

Looking for Archie Beaton 

Please can any of the many readers out there, point me in the right direction as to where I can buy a copy of the Euph solo "The Rev. Archie Beaton".

We heard it played at the Brass in Concert Championships a couple of years ago and our principle Euph player has been looking for it ever since. Unfortunatley, I can't remember who played it, but I'm guessing that someone out there will know.

Any replies can be sent to - mukerband@hotmail.com  

Allan Guy 

Who is Peter Gillard of Chester?

Whit Friday is the best thing since sliced bread, it is not a money making exercise, it is still tradition, and I am sure I speak for all us northerners, when I say, it can't come around quick enough, they should have at least two a year.

Although I am not a player, I have been to Whit Friday contests from being a small child and wouldn't miss it for the world. Let's hope the tradition doesn't die out.

J.A. Hamilton.  

The Bakery Boys 

As a very proud ex-member of 'Robos boys' (on both cornet and Eb & Bb bass) and whilst I am not trying to speak for the Bakery band or even god forbid 'bad mouth' them, I feel I can answer Tom Hancock's query straight away.

Any members past and present from the Bakery band will know that the band has never been a regular attendee of any contests other than the area for years and years - that was just how it was.
It appears obvious to me, that to score points to get ranked, you have to take part in something that will give you those points in the first place, such as, er, contests!!

I am extremely proud to be able to say that I have been a member of the Bakery band (I was associated with the band from 1984 through to 1999, and inaugurated the Malcolm Steele Trophy; most of my most cherished memories come as a result of playing with and being associated with the band ) and can thank CC et al, for my excellent musical education that stands me in such good stead now as it was the bands hallmark to always try and achieve that best musically possible. It was always a given though, that we hardly ever did more than one contest per year, two at the very most, preferring to concentrate on giving quality concert performances both at home and abroad.

From the outside it looks like that trend continues, and there's nothing wrong with that.

However, in contrast; though I live near Darlington now, I am privileged to play in that Co-op band in Crewe (United Co-op Norwest 2000) as you have specifically mentioned, despite the distance I have to travel come contest time. In the last 4 months I have been lucky enough to have played in 5 contests where we have won our section twice and come second out of those 5 contests. In the Whit Fridays (where we won our section at both Heyrod and Denton), out of the three venues where the two bands came up against each other we were placed above you two out of three times, plus winning both March and Hymn in our section at the JJB recently, which you didn't take part in.

I note Wire Brass, whom you also mention (containing a few ex Robo's boys as well) also did very well at the JJB........It is hardly surprising to me then that we have started picking up points and have 'crept' into the rankings; and I can see us steadily climbing that ranking table if current form continues.

I know we are going to Harrogate and at least one other contest this year (though I don't speak for the band in any official capacity), so that's seven contests this year; how many have the Bakery done? Two including Whit Friday? Whether relevant or not, is it any surprise that we are ranked above you? I don't think so.

In my heart of hearts, I can honestly say I would love to see the Bakery band back up there with the best of them and wish CC and the band all the very best for the future, just as I want my own band to go all the way as well, but as the saying goes, you've got to be in it to win it!

That as they also say, is no contest (pun intended)!

Shaun Roche.  

The Black Dyke jug - not that rare?

I was very interested to read about the auction of the Black Dyke Jug. Far from being less than 5 in existence, there are as far as I know at least ten within a ten mile radius of the bandroom.

From information I have gathered I believe there was 40 made: 26 for the band and the rest possibly for the directors of the company. The one I have, was given to me by Gladys Bower, the daughter of Fred Bower and granddaughter of Phineas Bower. The Bower family were involved with the band for well over sixty years 1866 to 1935.

 John Clay

The Illuminati?

Who are these ‘Illuminati' who have decided to use their so called influence by buying up our rich brass band heritage then?

I thought it was deadly serious until I read the last few paragraphs of the report given to 4BR – and then the penny dropped. However, all I can say is well done and keep up the good work. If you remain a bit of a secret then all well and good – the initiation ceremony sounds hilarious!

Bob Coles
Minehead

Talking about quiet playing

I have read the article with interest and I believe that note production techniques holds the key to being able to sustain very soft playing without breakdown of tone and quality of the tone. This can only be achieved by the correct practice, which I believe takes a lot of time and patience.

To expect all sections within the band to be able to achieve this standard of note production would be rare in a lot of brass bands today and so it is no wonder that the expectations of the degree of loudness has had to change. Also I am a believer to achieve good soft playing within the band that deep cup mouthpieces must be used especially in the higher and mid range instruments of the band as this is where a lot of problems occur with the insecurity of the note in soft passages. The deeper mouthpieces give more warmth and rounder tone but unfortunately makes for harder work in the top register.

The major problem that is always inherent with lifting the dynamics up a notch especially in ff and above is the tuning and quality of the tone and this is where all bands must strive to keep the dynamics down to acceptable levels.

These are my thoughts and in summing up we as brass players should always incorporate in our daily practice playing softly, paying particular attention to tone and this needs to be a concerted effort by all brass players.
 
Bill Richards

Whit Friday dismay

It is with a sense of dismay that I find myself responding to the correspondent from Chester and springing to the defence of the people of Saddleworth in particular.

Let me say straight away that I am a 'comer in' and probably know less about the subject than those who have lived here all their lives. However, I have lived in Saddleworth since 1997 and have conducted local bands in the Whits on three occasions as MD of Dobcross and Holme Silver. I have also played as a member of the All Star Navigation Band and adjudicated on three occasions at Dobcross and Denshaw.  Prior to moving to Saddleworth I conducted other Championship section bands in the evening and played in top class units i.e., Leyland Daf and Brighouse.

For those of you who have never attended the "Walks of Witness" in the morning, I can only say that you are likely to "miss the point"!  The evening contest is merely a historical spin off from what was the purpose of the day in a less secular age.  In fact... I hate to admit this ... but I really didn't get the point until the year 2000. It was the first time I attended the service and parade in Uppermill (where I now live) in the morning. It was also the millennium year and coincided with much attention from the media and with the attendance of the "Songs of Praise" cameras. I was so moved by the occasion that I was inspired to write a complete suite of music for band which I called "Spirit Of The Day".

So, before anyone starts judging this truly "ENGLISH" cultural phenomenon, please attend the whole days events. In fact... I will even offer myself as a guide. This year it was my great pleasure to invite my great friend and former colleague Phil Watson to experience Whit Friday from the adjudicators box. He has just taken on the role of BFBB development officer. Phil and I used to play in the same military band, and it was a real pleasure to give him a bit of insight into the day. Even he doesn't get it yet, because he hasn't experienced the whole days events.

Until you have been a member of a Saddleworth and environs band, you really don't understand what its all about. So..... I would caution people not to judge the event by the inevitable chav and drunken bum abuse you will see in some venues late at night. The organisers of whit friday competitions are unpaid locals dedicated to the preservation of a well loved cultural event. They are NOT bandsmen or women, but love band music. They cannot be held responsible for the poor behaviour of a few yobs. The fall in behavioural standards in society is not their responsibility.

To quote the correspondent,

"As someone who has long believed Whit Friday to be nothing more than an excuse for making money: for landlords opening their pubs all day, local shops selling lager to under age teenagers, bus companies hiking their prices up for bands and the top bands themselves using it as an excuse to win money, I must congratulate you for your editorial this month".

This is utter rubbish and I would suggest that both the correspondent and the editorial staff do as I suggest above. ... to GET THE POINT!

"Whit Friday used to be a celebration of what is good in community life, now it has become a grubby, yobs excuse that bears no relationship to even its ‘mock' heritage."

Interesting that you make this observation........ have you ever attended the whole day! I would suggest that you both do so and then ... learn!

As to the prize money, those than win are the victors as usual. If you don't like the rules ... don't enter and STAY HOME! The prizes for local bands seem not to get noticed. When an unsponsored local band wins first local prize they can make about £2,000 - £3,000. This is a major issue for these bands. However, they play for pride, as do the very best bands. I can tell you now that Black Dyke played at my venue "Denshaw" this year and must have played at 11 other venues beforehand. The provided a "Masterclass" for those who have the ears to here! Object lesson in consistent musicianship indeed.

So ... come on chaps..... my offer is on the table. Next year you can come to Uppermill and I will act as a guide in the morning.... Otherwise don't judge a book by its cover!

Stephen Tighe

Whit Friday: What about the lower section bands then? 

Mr Rix, what a disservice you have done to all the lower section bands in the country with your comments re; Whit Friday.

For once, in the banding calendar there is a contest where all bands start equally, whether they be Youth, Championship or bands made up of players especially for the occasion. As well as a contest it is a wonderful social occasion for all Bands and supporters.

What more delight can a 4th section Band get than finding themselves lining up after Dyke and before Leyland?  I know. I've been there.

I've also been in the crowd and been amazed at the superb playing of some of these Lower section bands.

Your comment of - ‘are these the ones we want to listen to – I think not' is insulting to all Bands and I suggest if you only want to hear Championship section Bands then you become a little more selective with where you go to listen and leave Whit Friday well alone!
 
Heather Smyth
United Co op Band (Crewe)
Championship Section

Ignorant attacks

I am very happy to see some 'Pro Whit Friday' comments after what I regarded as shameful and ignorant attacks on one of this movement's finest events!
 
Regarding the 'mock tradition' of the proceedings, could I ask if the protesters have ever been in Saddleworth from 8.30am onwards? If so they would see bandsmen giving up a days work to march several miles to represent their band's village/church, enough to kill the strongest of lips! It is a respected and legendary tradition for any player born of Saddleworth to play in the morning and still be tough enough to do 10+ contests in the evening!
 
The "Mock Tradition" is a tradition of bands from all areas representing all the churches of Saddleworth many decades ago and coming up with the idea of competing against eachother. Fancy several bands being in one area, on one day and coming to that decision?! 
 
Regarding the issue of money, of course bands will want to win an amount of it, there are enough prizes for everyone but obviously the decent bands are going to bag the 'real' money! My own band is faced with the daunting prospect of financing a trip to Harrogate in the 1st Section Finals and the unsuspected British Open venture as well, so money on Whit Friday was an absolute "Godsend".

We played at 13 contests and won 14 prizes and we didn't have runners or didn't jump in anywhere! Most of the top bands will split the winnings between the players, I don't think a certain 4barsrest bod complained about money won when playing for YBS in 1996!!
 
There are lot of people working 365 days a year to run contests on Whit Friday and some people don't realise this. Criticism of what is a huge event and a meaningful occasion for many people should be better advised!

Mark Rodgers

Sticking up for the Scouts

Ok, I don't even know who the Rossendale Scouts are, but I feel the need to stick up for them!
 
Why (when plenty of other whit walk villages don't!) do Delph have an early cut off time for Youth bands to take to the stand? How much of an injustice is that!!!!
 
For God sake! The kids in the youth bands are the future of the brass band world, we need to encourage them not hinder them! It's amazing to play to a packed out Delph on Whit Walks when your a kid!
 
The youth section is just the same as 4th - Championship sections. They compete for cash prizes, they put just as much, if not more work into their contest marches than Championship bands! They pay their dues just as any other band do!
 
Wouldn't it have saved the contest officials a lot of time and effort and faff to have just let them play?! I think so! Maybe Delph can re-consider there rules for next year eh?
 
Treat every band as an equal!
Do not discriminate because of class!
And stop demanding respect from young adults if you are not willing to show them some in return!!!
 
Also, I am sure that some youngsters have pushed past people at Delph and upset them, but take a look around! It's Delph and its bloody packed out with people! There is no way of anyone being able to walk anywhere without bouncing off somebody else's shoulders every 5 seconds!
 
Well that's my view. Anybody else?
 
Jo Moss(Age 20)

What about the Bakery boys?

Hi to all at 4barsrest, think you're all doing a great job with the site and believe that the majority of the World rankings are to be correct. However, my band - Roberts Bakery - are not featured. However, others in our section or below are.

Other local bands such as United Co-op Norwest 2000 are now in the top 200 and have been in the 3rd section for a number of years before promotion at this year's areas, while Wire Brass have been 2nd section before joining us in the First this year. There are also bands that we beat (or very close to)
at Blackpool this year such as VBS Poynton and Blackburn & Darwen.

We achieved 4th this year and will be competing against United Co-op Crewe next year, who are placed around the 100 mark. Is this simply because Roberts Bakery choose not to compete in umpteen competitions a year and only go to the North West Areas and Whit Friday?

Tom Hancock
Second Cornet
Roberts Bakery Band

4BR Reply:
We will find out, but we are fairly sure all the proper results and rankings have been worked out.

Whit Friday tosh

What a lot of tosh re the Whit Fridays - As a regular member of the audience, from an enjoyment perspective I look forward to and want to hear as many of our best as possible.

I would welcome a system of priority based on national gradings, which may even attract more of the top boys.  Lets face it the caravaners etc are there for fun, and for many the event is no more than a glorified pub crawl, but are these the bands we really want to listen to - I think not. Come on get a life.

Graham Rix

Bands and Whit Friday - no real relevance?

The procession of witness takes place in the morning and in many ways has no relevance on the evening's activities. It is a wonderful and colourful start to the days proceedings and it is enjoyed by many hundreds of local people.

The feeling of community, solidarity, comradeship and pride has remained constant over the years, even if the appreciation of religion and its importance to our lives may have altered for many.  The demand from Bandsmen from all over the country to take part is as high as ever and we often have foreign players who book their place 12 months in advance.

The evening contests, created and developed by Bandsmen to show off their skills and talents remains the highlight of the day for many. The fact that over 140 bands and many thousands of people turn up year after year has nothing to do with Victorian inspired mock heritage. You could argue that the Brass Band movement as a whole was a born to impose an appreciation of a culture, by bringing popular music to the masses.

Whit Friday exists, as does our movement, because of the enjoyment we players are able to derive and the pleasure it gives to our supporters. How many other Brass events can motivate up to 4000 players and many thousand of listeners to turn out in all weather to enjoy our brass band music and traditions? Are they all deluded? - I think not.

You are wrong to say that the sponsors are not the churches and villages. Many hundreds of local people work tirelessly without reward to raise funds to help stage the event. It is only in recent years that the local authorities have bolstered the prize funds and this has help to attract more bands, more listeners and more visitors. What other event in our calendar can boast this rate of growth and popularity? How many of our traditional band contests have disappeared over the years through lack of bands, lack of finance and virtually no public interest?   

Whit Friday may be many things to many people and is not without its problems. If it is a grubby little sideshow why does it attract our best adjudicators, our best bands and the biggest crowds of any brass band event? I believe it is one of the few remaining true community based celebrations and it should be treasured. Whit Friday shows the world everything that is good about our movement - the music, the friendship and the passion - long may it continue.

Stephen Whitby

Negative view

In response to your recent editorial about whit Friday I have to say that you have taken an extremely negative view of one of the finest nights in the banding calendar.
 
Firstly in your response to the fact you claim Whit Friday night is merely a profit making exercise I have to disagree. There are a hundred plus bands out on Whit Friday night, the majority of which do not win any prize money, are they in it for the money?...and yes people do like to have a drink on Whit Friday night but don't bandsmen do this at every contest? Pontins? Butlins? Masters?

However Whit Friday is not just a contest, it is the most high profile, most well attended event in the brass band world. What other event in the banding calendar can claim to draw the crowds that Whit Friday does?...and as for the religious aspect of it you only have to be in the villages at 8 'o' clock in the morning to see what it [Whit Friday] means to the people in the community.

You only have to visit Uppermill later in the morning, to see the thousands of people there for the service that is held and you only have to see the mass of bands marching back to their villages with supporters, to see the importance and relevance of it all.

I suspect many bands, whether there was prize money on offer or not would still take part in Whit Friday. Like it or not Whit Friday night has become a banding tradition and one that has some major positive aspects for the movement. The exposure given to brass bands on that one night through radio, newspaper and in some cases television can only be good.

The opportunity for youngsters to compete against and hear the likes of Black Dyke, YBS and Fodens -for free - can only be good!! Renewing old ties with bands people you've not seen in years is another aspect of Whit Friday many people enjoy.
 
Whit Friday is magical, you only had to be at Dobcross at 10.30pm to see that, when we, being last band on in our 'home' ground, marched down to a packed square of cheering supporters. Tired lips never came into the equation as we marched down the street.
 
Following our final performance of 'Mephi' and being last band on we had to play St Clemence, as we did so the clouds pulled back to reveal a full moon which lit the hymn sheets and our instruments up, in the dull of the night, either that or it was the security lighting from someone's backyard, either way it looked good!  I don't think we've ever played a hymn as well as that and we got more applause for that than the march! 

It was then,after a huge round of applause, after 10 villages without a pint, after having marched since 9 that morning, and after having surgically removed lip from metal, that I realised 'this is why I do Whit Friday'.

This is why we should be proud, this is why we should embrace Whit Friday for all it is. It is a tradition, it is our [the banding communities/tradition and long may it continue to be so.
 
D Jones 
Dobcross Silver Band

Looking for Oskar?

In answer to the above Wingates Band have two versions:

Russian Dance (Khatchaturian) arranged Howard Snell Rakeway Music
Russian Dance   (From John Hudson) Oskar Bohme arranged Simon Kerwin Music For Brass

Please pass this on to Carol Hirst with my email address and I will help her out

Graeme.Hall@culpitt.com

Graeme Hall
Wingates Band

Haunted Bandrooms
 
Found your letter on 4BR.  I too am a fan on Most Haunted and firmly believe in ghosts.
 
I have two experiences of ghosts in bandrooms. 
 
The first being at Besses bandroom a few years back shortly before one of the contests (can't remember if it was the area or the Open).  There were four of us left in the bar downstairs when we heard a cymbal crash from the bandroom upstairs and it appeared to come form the opposite side to where we were standing.  A couple of us rushed upstairs as we thought it might be kids and there was no one there an no-one had come down the stairs.  It was only when we got downstairs that we noticed that the sound had come from the opposite side to where the drum kit was actually set up.  I hasten to add that the room was vacated rather quickly.
 
It was always strange going into Besses bandroom on your own as it always felt as though there was someone else in the room with you.
 
The 2nd occasion was a couple of years ago in Glossop Bandroom.  We were rehearsing a test piece and I was sat on principal cornet and through a reflection in a clear panel in the door I could see a shadow moving about but when I turned to look at where the shadow was I didn't see anything moving.  Whilst I believe in ghosts I am also still a sceptic and had a look to see if anything was moving about on the other side of the glass, which there wasn't. 

This carried on all night and I could see the shadow of a person moving about, sitting down and then moving about again.  At the end of the rehearsal the soprano player asked me what I kept looking at and I told her " a ghost" and left it at that.  No

^back to top